Regarding nerfing sniper and fixing the perhaps broken accuracy system.

[becubed 24]

Right, which is why I always used "would" not "will".

You do realise that "would" is just the past tense of "will"?

[maturin 12]

Please stopping thinking as if you are the only one who's been to high school, and as I already told you, it is "not due to the force so great" but due to how the human body works that people gets knocked down, which is clearly seen in "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXMjh_XbkiI". Try denying that.

That's what I said from the start. Then you started arguing, and have since changed your tune. If you want to rewrite history, you have to go back and edit the posts so will at least fool someone.

The wearer in the video clearly knew that when and where he will be hit, so he could adjust his weight distribution in the first place. If you are standing still relaxing, and suddenly someone push you hard from the front, you would probably fall back or fall down; But had you knew what is coming, you would hold your ground, simple as that.

That would defeat the purpose of the exercise. He wasn't trying to stand up. He wasn't trying to fool anyone. You can't do much to distribute your weight when you're standing on one foot, not without visually leaning.

Listen. To. Yourself. You are still trying to argue that force alone will knock someone down, right after you deny doing such a thing.

If someone shoves me, I step backward to shift my weight and avoid falling down. The man in the video did no such thing, which (if I choose to engage with your wretched analogy) goes to prove that a bullet imparts even less force than your theoretical 'hard shove.' If you care to do the math, a .45 caliber bullet has the same kinetic energy as... a baseball pitch.

To what statement are you referring to that I'm "sneakily disavowing"?!

I MOTHERFUCKING BOLDED IT FOR YOU. Please do not read these capital letters as out of control anger. I just think they are necessary for communication in your case.

Also you are adding additional contents into the argument which distorts the nature of the original debate. "successful body armor", "Body armor is supposed to". All of a sudden you felt the need to change some elements in your statements...

Those aren't parts of the debate, those are simply facts meant for your own edification. Any questions?

[KEVINMGXP 20]

Please stopping thinking as if you are the only one who's been to high school, and as I already told you, it is "not due to the force so great" but due to how the human body works that people gets knocked down, which is clearly seen in "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXMjh_XbkiI". Try denying that..

Firstly, you disprove the fact how I and others argument your wrong information over and over, which is you're problem from the start on the entire debate. I seriously wonder why you bother to communicate on these forums here at all if you going to have problems as such. Secondly there is no need for you to overly prove you are educated, I will not even come close to discuss your'e intelligence what so ever, but it looks like you are willing to discuss mine :rolleyes: maybe it would be wiser to show a little courtesy to those that try to give the right information, a better approach would be to admit you were wrong in your statements and move on.

Then the video:

The video doesn't show a knock back nor knock down, hes feet stay on the exact same spot from where he is standing, the body needs to go somewhere in this case towards the back from were the shot is coming from, If you take a good look in what is happening on the video it is not only due to the force of the shot but also due to the reaction of the receiver on impact, as already proven in several cases by science and by the FBI it is a myth, and no such thing exist ...

What it does show however is, that the target stands right back up this proves that the target was a highly trained induvidual and knew exactly how to react, it looks as he was not close to be stunned out and disorientated of what to do next, most likely shot fully on the body armor where the larger part of the impact will have been dispersed and away from the wearer.

I witnessed several times so far that you are trying to bend your'e own words, it looks that I am not the only one that discovered this :butbut: ...

Tests don over a period of several years which show that what you refer to as a knock back or knock down is a fall or in other words stumble to the ground.

Look at boxing for example do they knock back or even knock down while being hit in the face or stomach on full force? No they don't they or stumble back up on impact and reaction and then drop down when knocked out like a sack of potatoes or in some case the body falls to the rear depending on how the receiver's body will react on the impact, you can hardly call that a knock back or knock down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynAPvk0lQF0 and

The moment were you would be right is where both parties will be affected by action and reaction, when you say that the knock back or knock down is due to how the body reacts then again I will need to disappoint you.

The following is sencitive about how gun shots are actually processed by the body you do not need to read it if you do not want too..

When shot and vital part are hit you will most likely go in to hypovolemic shock, a condition characterized by inadequate delivery of oxygen to vital organs. When fatal you're brain will not send any information anymore to your body parts and stops to function properly, Non-fatal gunshot wounds can result in serious disability.

First of all, imagine you are being shot in the chest there will be the most incredible, shocking impact you could ever imagine like being jack-hammered through the chest, everything around you will go into slow motion and a large amount of adrenaline will be released from the adrenal medulla, causing you're central nervous system synaopses to fire faster. First the bullet will penetrate you're entire chest mass, fracture and bounce off you're left scapula. Hurle back through you're chest again, fracture a rib, and then bounce back through, trace a path around another rib.

Next flying straight into you're spinal column, fracturing you're T-9 and T-10 thoracic vertebrae. This all will happen in one momentum and in a fraction of a second and it will cause the feeling in you're legs to fade away. Now again when this happens to you or even when this is witnessed by you, then come and tell us if you or that person will be knocked back or knocked down ..

I can guarantee you, that it does not happen ...

Like said previously when hit on body armor it works different as the body armor is developed to try and stop the bullet when receiving a shot in such a condition and the bullet is successfully stopped the reaction upon it is depending on how highly the target is trained. But a knock back or a knock down will never occur in any case, I refer again to the top video posted by icewindo it proves the fact that their is no knock back or knock down their must be something wrong with your eyes or at least with how you interpreted a knock back or a knock down or whatever you want to call it next ....

Last but not least here another test by an individual that proves their is no knock back nor knock down, so you are surely not the only one that cant seem to take the right information. I am really curious why people back them selves up with such myths anyway ....

For most of this week I witnessed a very heated debate about Knock Down or Knock Back Power of projectiles fired from firearms. I just happened to be working on the video for another ammo test, so I grabbed some highlights so people could visually see the knock down/knock back power of one of more powerful 45 ACP loads.

There is no doubt that the gel block sustained serious internal damage from the bullet, but the 45 lb. terminal testing rig only moved less than 1 inch from the bullet impact. This hardly appears capable of knocking a 150 lb object off their feet even with 100% energy transfer.

If this doesn't satisfy the correctness of the information that some of us try to give you here, well then we will need to think you are hard headed, but hey no hard feelings ;-) we may think you have a lot of questions that need to be answered but the thing is are you willing to receive them as it is?

best of regards

Edited August 25, 2013 by LiquitHQ
gramma + added info on actual gunshot wounds ...

[dayglow 2]

Myth Busters cover this as well.

[Yashamalu 10]

That's what I said from the start. Then you started arguing, and have since changed your tune. If you want to rewrite history, you have to go back and edit the posts so will at least fool someone.

That would defeat the purpose of the exercise. He wasn't trying to stand up. He wasn't trying to fool anyone. You can't do much to distribute your weight when you're standing on one foot, not without visually leaning.

Listen. To. Yourself. You are still trying to argue that force alone will knock someone down, right after you deny doing such a thing.

If someone shoves me, I step backward to shift my weight and avoid falling down. The man in the video did no such thing, which (if I choose to engage with your wretched analogy) goes to prove that a bullet imparts even less force than your theoretical 'hard shove.' If you care to do the math, a .45 caliber bullet has the same kinetic energy as... a baseball pitch.

I MOTHERFUCKING BOLDED IT FOR YOU. Please do not read these capital letters as out of control anger. I just think they are necessary for communication in your case.

Those aren't parts of the debate, those are simply facts meant for your own edification. Any questions?

Now, if you cannot even maintain the least decency in your language and stop running away from answering my questions directly rather than playing with the physics one more time, than there's really not much to discuss with you. And BTW, you are the guy who started arguing on other people's post. But anyway, one clear example regarding the physics: So you push someone really hard all of a sudden, he would fall down due to the fact that he's unprepared. However that does not mean you would fall down as well, suffering from the same amount of force backward. As for the man in video, like I said he's well prepared as seen in the video and there's no denying to that.

---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:46 ----------

Firstly, you disprove the fact how I and others argument your wrong information over and over, which is you're problem from the start on the entire debate. I seriously wonder why you bother to communicate on these forums here at all if you going to have problems as such. Secondly there is no need for you to overly prove you are educated, I will not even come close to discuss your'e intelligence what so ever, but it looks like you are willing to discuss mine :rolleyes: maybe it would be wiser to show a little courtesy to those that try to give the right information, a better approach would be to admit you were wrong in your statements and move on.

Then the video:

The video doesn't show a knock back nor knock down, hes feet stay on the exact same spot from where he is standing, the body needs to go somewhere in this case towards the back from were the shot is coming from, If you take a good look in what is happening on the video it is not only due to the force of the shot but also due to the reaction of the receiver on impact, as already proven in several cases by science and by the FBI it is a myth, and no such thing exist ...

What it does show however is, that the target stands right back up this proves that the target was a highly trained induvidual and knew exactly how to react, it looks as he was not close to be stunned out and disorientated of what to do next, most likely shot fully on the body armor where the larger part of the impact will have been dispersed and away from the wearer.

I witnessed several times so far that you are trying to bend your'e own words, it looks that I am not the only one that discovered this :butbut: ...

Tests don over a period of several years which show that what you refer to as a knock back or knock down is a fall or in other words stumble to the ground.

Look at boxing for example do they knock back or even knock down while being hit in the face or stomach on full force? No they don't they or stumble back up on impact and reaction and then drop down when knocked out like a sack of potatoes or in some case the body falls to the rear depending on how the receiver's body will react on the impact, you can hardly call that a knock back or knock down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynAPvk0lQF0 and

The moment were you would be right is where both parties will be affected by action and reaction, when you say that the knock back or knock down is due to how the body reacts then again I will need to disappoint you.

The following is sencitive about how gun shots are actually processed by the body you do not need to read it if you do not want too..

When shot and vital part are hit you will most likely go in to hypovolemic shock, a condition characterized by inadequate delivery of oxygen to vital organs. When fatal you're brain will not send any information anymore to your body parts and stops to function properly, Non-fatal gunshot wounds can result in serious disability.

First of all, imagine you are being shot in the chest there will be the most incredible, shocking impact you could ever imagine like being jack-hammered through the chest, everything around you will go into slow motion and a large amount of adrenaline will be released from the adrenal medulla, causing you're central nervous system synaopses to fire faster. First the bullet will penetrate you're entire chest mass, fracture and bounce off you're left scapula. Hurle back through you're chest again, fracture a rib, and then bounce back through, trace a path around another rib.

Next flying straight into you're spinal column, fracturing you're T-9 and T-10 thoracic vertebrae. This all will happen in one momentum and in a fraction of a second and it will cause the feeling in you're legs to fade away. Now again when this happens to you or even when this is witnessed by you, then come and tell us if you or that person will be knocked back or knocked down ..

I can guarantee you, that it does not happen ...

Like said previously when hit on body armor it works different as the body armor is developed to try and stop the bullet when receiving a shot in such a condition and the bullet is successfully stopped the reaction upon it is depending on how highly the target is trained. But a knock back or a knock down will never occur in any case, I refer again to the top video posted by icewindo it proves the fact that their is no knock back or knock down their must be something wrong with your eyes or at least with how you interpreted a knock back or a knock down or whatever you want to call it next ....

Last but not least here another test by an individual that proves their is no knock back nor knock down, so you are surely not the only one that cant seem to take the right information. I am really curious why people back them selves up with such myths anyway ....

If this doesn't satisfy the correctness of the information that some of us try to give you here, well then we will need to think you are hard headed, but hey no hard feelings ;-) we may think you have a lot of questions that need to be answered but the thing is are you willing to receive them as it is?

best of regards

I mentioned high school stuff cause it is getting a little bit annoying that you've been saying the same concept twice and more as if I did not get it the first time, it is only to ensure you that I fully comprehend the concept myself, but it is never the concept I've been arguing, but the FACT that in REAL LIFE soldier gets knock down in combat. Since ARMA3 claims to pursue realism, than maybe it is best if the hit animation could be improved.

[maturin 12]

When you've been proven wrong, take care to adopt your opponent's position and maintain that you have always thought as he did. Essential tactic for a politician.

Yashamalu, you have now held three positions in this argument, which covers pretty much every possible permutation of the subject. Now, with you're final transformation, you agree with me entirely. We're done here.

Edited August 25, 2013 by maturin

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I mentioned high school stuff cause it is getting a little bit annoying that you've been saying the same concept twice and more as if I did not get it the first time.

but the FACT that in REAL LIFE soldier gets knock down in combat. Since ARMA3 claims to pursue realism, than maybe it is best if the hit animation could be improved.

This is because you still seem not to get it entirely right, people tend to react on such things around here. I am one like many around here that like to feed the right info. This is while you still claim that a soldier will be knocked back or knocked down, it is proven many times over that it wont happen you cant change that FACT.

Also you try to say that this part is not simulated right by bis in their upcoming tittle and I am not agreeing upon that claim. Arma3 seems to be pretty close in that part of the simulation which is a vast improvement looking towards their past. The feature may still be up for improvement but personally I actually am satisfied how it works especially if you compare it towards their former tittles, the video you are pointing out to for example is actually one prove of it. Also Bis tries to pursue realism and they do claim bis will provide the most realistic platform for combat simulation.

I can say on my account and I know many people will back me up on this "they do" and they are not saying this falsely. BIS has been improving trough the past years, but you need to bear in mind this is still a simulation and a game and while they are trying to provide and pursue realism it is not exactly real life eater, maybe a little bit of reality from your'e part on that end can help to look upon it from the right side ...

I will not say it is all perfect but to get every factor right and detailed is something that asks many years of development. You won't get much more realism in any other game out there and if you know where bis is coming from and where they have been in the past you will certainly know this -> I bet they will keep improving while they are add it ;-)

Anyway that is my input on this matter and if you are annoyed by it then I guess I have to say that this is bad for you I am not going to lose sleep over it :p

best of regards

Edited August 25, 2013 by LiquitHQ
gramma

[JohnnieConcrete 1]

"Not to mention that in real life a hit of 5.56 to your chest would knock you to the ground, probably breaking your bones and cause internal bleeding,"

Its not the bullet knocking you to the ground it is your legs collapsing form underneath you as excruciating pain racks your body from the broken bones and ruptured flesh.

When someone gets shot they don't fly backwards, they drop, or if you are moving forward and are shot from the front or back you will fall forward,

Most people who play this game have never been to war or even shot a weapon.

So OP don't try and project what you think should happen to what would really happen and then cry Nerf/OP/Camper

[Zerke 10]

Not to mention that ARMA is not cod or bf. Those have the same scenarios going over and over and over. ARMA is VERY different and not all servers or missions pit players against players. Every server that runs something different is basicly a game within this game. You can't go around screaming nerf this, buff that like it is a run of the mill console kiddie shooter.

Like it was said before, the mission designers and server admins control many of the parameters for the particular mission or game type running on a server at any given time.