The right to keep and bear arms?

[Paratrooper 0]

As Charlton Heston has retired from the head of th NRA It started me thinking:

Is it a right to keeps firearms? Which is better the American or British firearms rules?

I suspect you all have an opinion on this.

Is is a good protection from crime?

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Charlston Heston, the man who was in the original planet of the apes was the head of the NRA? Wow. About the matter at hand. I think the American way is wrong. They claim it is the best form of defense, but if people couldnt get their hands on guns in the first place, their would be no need toi bear arms to defend against them. The fact that nearly any one that is over a certain age, with a drivers lisence and is mentally sane can buy is wrong. They may have been sane before, but what if they want to go and grease someone they dont like? All too easy.

[Intruder 0]

I can understand why a lot of people (public) would want to keep firearms for defence, but would they consider non leathal methods? (Sorry, I was just playing Deus Ex )

[Paratrooper 0]

I personaly voted for option three. I think sane, law abideing citizens should be able to own firearms. For defence and sport.

They should however be under strict control and regually licenced. Like owning a car.

Yes, that Charlton Heston.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Sorry, but your tag does not fit with your opinion! Yes! Pepper spray! Riot Prod! Mini Cross bow with tranqulises!

[Intruder 0]

Yeah, it's just a show of force. Miltary force, civilian force. I wouldn't trust my neighbour with a fully loaded A6 Intruder

[Postduifje 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 11 2002,16:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I I think sane, law abideing citizens should be able to own firearms.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm constantly surounded by insane people, so my votes is for the non-American law.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

No, never.

Guns are dangerous ya know, and if u make some carry them, u wont be able to stop others. They should be ilegal except for the police and military

[morbid 0]

When you make them illegal then only criminals will have guns and the rest of the law-abiding public are buggered...

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (morbid @ Aug. 11 2002,16:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When you make them illegal then only criminals will have guns and the rest of the law-abiding public are buggered...<span id='postcolor'>

if the military and police got guns , then , it's not a problem

only the policemen can enforce law , not the civilians

[foxer 0]

Insane people can't have guns,or depression people,or people that have been in jail.It's not that easy to get a gun in america unless,you know someone on the street which is by the way illegal.You europeans like to stereotype america that you can go to any store and just pick up a gun with no questions ask.Also if they can't stop drugs in america there is no way in hell they will stop guns.And there's too many guns in america,Soo it's to late to do anything about them now,except crack down on the people that shouldn't have them.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Aug. 11 2002,17:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Insane people can't have guns,or depression people,or people that have been in jail.It's not that easy to get a gun in america unless,you know someone on the street which is by the way illegal.You europeans like to stereotype america that you can go to any store and just pick up a gun with no questions ask.Also if they can't stop drugs in america there is no way in hell they will stop guns.And there's too many guns in america,Soo it's to late to do anything about them now,except crack down on the people that shouldn't have them.<span id='postcolor'>

You have made the point against population-wide gun ownership there, there are so many guns in America that they can't be controlled.

I think the third way is best. Few, well controled and licenced guns to responsible citizens.

[Guest]

I think we have a pretty solid system in Sweden. To get a license you have to be active in a shooting club for at least six months (active means to shoot at least one hour twice a week or something like that). You also must pass numerous both practical and theoretical tests. After your six months are up and you have passed all the tests you can buy one .22 caliber gun. After another 6 months of active shooting and some more tests you can buy any caliber.

All guns must be locked up (by law) in a special form of gun safe. There are relatively many gun owners in Sweden but very few thefts of guns and very little criminal use of guns.

Military weapons are much more often stolen then private owned.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 11 2002,18:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we have a pretty solid system in Sweden. To get a license you have to be active in a shooting club for at least six months (active means to shoot at least one hour twice a week or something like that). You also must pass numerous both practical and theoretical tests. After your six months are up and you have passed all the tests you can buy one .22 caliber gun. After another 6 months of active shooting and some more tests you can buy any caliber.

All guns must be locked up (by law) in a special form of gun safe. There are relatively many gun owners in Sweden but very few thefts of guns and very little criminal use of guns.

Military weapons are much more often stolen then private owned.<span id='postcolor'>

almost the same reglementation now in france (and i haven't verified it yet , i'm a bad boy , especilly cuz it could be usefull at work ..... )

in france you have to be member from a shooting club for at least 6 months like in sweden , shooting 2 hours a week etc etc ...

after that you can buy any weapon in the authorised categories (then again i don't remind wich ones)

as you've guessed , the french gun legislation is not one of my strong points lol

[ralphwiggum 6]

i say current US system needs to be beefed up.

in US, when purchasing arms federal gov't performs criminal record check as far as i know. so it's not that someone can just go in and come out with a gun.

but US system, stil needs to be strengthened. I prefer that US follow Sweden system as described my Denoir. that will eliminate a lot of ppl who just want gun for the heck of it.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 11 2002,18:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we have a pretty solid system in Sweden. To get a license you have to be active in a shooting club for at least six months (active means to shoot at least one hour twice a week or something like that). You also must pass numerous both practical and theoretical tests. After your six months are up and you have passed all the tests you can buy one .22 caliber gun. After another 6 months of active shooting and some more tests you can buy any caliber.

All guns must be locked up (by law) in a special form of gun safe. There are relatively many gun owners in Sweden but very few thefts of guns and very little criminal use of guns.

Military weapons are much more often stolen then private owned.<span id='postcolor'>

That seems an ideal system. I wish we had it in Britain where they are even considering 'cracking down' on air rifles!

[ran 0]

ok , have read some parts of the gun legislation i have under the hands :

weapon categories in france :

1st :- semi auto handguns 7.65mm & +

     - semi auto and automatic rifles for military use

     - "normal" automatic weapons

2nd :- heavy military material (planes , tanks)

3rd :- NBC protection equipement...

4th :- handguns and long weapons that aren't included in 1st category , shotguns , some hunting rifles , .22 carbines and pistols for exemple

5th :- classic hunting rifles

6th :- knifes , batons , sticks , electric arks , teargas and other melee weapons

7th :- air guns (pellet carbines) , annulary percussion weapons (.22lr)

8th :- antics and neutralized weapons

i'm actually authorised to use every weapons from every category (except the second , and i can't use the 1st category weapons anywhere else than at work)

look here for more infos (in french)

french legislation , FAQ , myths and realties

some parts were added to the french legislation right after an attack in a "conseil municipal" (town assembly)

in france , the only ones to have a "carry on" license are the policemen and soldiers who are in service

[pathfinder 0]

I guess it all depends on location.  In my neck of the woods everyone is armed.  But since the nearest cops are 15 minutes out ,and that is only if they are on duty.   Due to a lack of funds they have floating days where they don't patrol at all.   That means we wait for other officers from another town 30 minutes out.       I could see where a person who lived near a police station might have a diffrent perspective about not needing a gun.

QUOTE:

You also must pass numerous both practical and theoretical tests.

Could we hear a small exert from one of those?   I would like to know about your country's rules of engagement for self defense.  

In the USA, in some cases we can't even talk about self defence and guns in the same sentence.  As that tells people you are prepared to kill another person.  

Getting back to the original post. If your not a felon and are of sound mind/not kookoo , gun ownership should be guaranteed.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (pathfinder @ Aug. 11 2002,19:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Could we hear a small exert from one of those?   I would like to know about your country's rules of engagement for self defense.  <span id='postcolor'>

The rules of engagement are such that you may not use a gun for self defense. Use it against another person and go to jail. You basically have to have a gun against your head for being allowed to use yours for self defense.

Guns are however rarely used here. It is a different overall mentality. People don't get carjacked or kidnapped under gunpoint. We don't have armed security guards at all. Sure we have a couple maby dozen max robberies / year but they always get caught anyway.

The police is responsible for the by far largest number of shootings. I think that in average about 20 people get shot/year by the police of which 2-3 are killed.

[Warin 0]

Contrary to what the reactionary sorts in Canada think, it's pretty easy to get a handgun. Since I've been pondering one for a few months now I looked into it.

Take a gunhandling course

Get the government picture ID firearms license

Buy Gun

Unless you are a whacko or a convicted felon, you can buy a handgun. You can still legally buy an AR-15 in Canada as well..but oddly enough I think the Mini-14 is on a list of restricted weapons. (Some whack job shot up a bunch of women at a college in Quebec with one)

I support strict gun laws because it screens far better than a waiting period and criminal records check. I know a few total nutters that wouldnt make it through a gun handling course, but could probably bluff the guy at the store

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know a few total nutters that wouldnt make it through a gun handling course, but could probably bluff the guy at the store<span id='postcolor'>

How would the sanity test be I wonder?

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

....and DOR enters the thread!

Well I think anybody who has not been to jail for assualt, DUI, use of drugs, or other things that can cuase impared judgement should be able to own a rifle or handgun, as long as they are 18 or older. I even think that some people, who take special classes should be able to own automatic wepons. No body should ever have to have a liecenes to own a gun, but to carry one they should. The dumb things about gun laws, are that the criminals will always be able to get a gun, and no guns should't not only be for self defense, but pleasure and fun. We also need guns for the hunters to keep the animal population under control.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ Aug. 11 2002,20:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know a few total nutters that wouldnt make it through a gun handling course, but could probably bluff the guy at the store<span id='postcolor'>

How would the sanity test be I wonder?<span id='postcolor'>

You need to pass the course. If you act like a nut job, the instructor doesnt have to pass you. Its that simple

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Aug. 11 2002,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok , have read some parts of the gun legislation i have under the hands :

weapon categories in france :

1st :- semi auto handguns 7.65mm & +

     - semi auto and automatic rifles for military use

     - "normal" automatic weapons

2nd :- heavy military material (planes , tanks)

3rd :- NBC protection equipement...

4th :- handguns and long weapons that aren't included in 1st category , shotguns , some hunting rifles , .22 carbines and pistols for exemple

5th :- classic hunting rifles

6th :- knifes , batons , sticks , electric arks , teargas and other melee weapons

7th :- air guns (pellet carbines) , annulary percussion weapons (.22lr)

8th :- antics and neutralized weapons<span id='postcolor'>

NBC equiipment ranks 3rd? Does thhat mean bio suits and gas mask.

Deniors post on swediish laws sound pretty sensible though like paratrooper said they even tried cracking down on airguns and the stupid general population wouldnt have said a word too Also foxhuntings banned up north now not that i give a damn about ponces in red coats running after a fox on horses but amount of hippies, totallly biased newspapers and crap that got it banned in the first place.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Renagade @ Aug. 11 2002,21:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Aug. 11 2002,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok , have read some parts of the gun legislation i have under the hands :

weapon categories in france :

1st :- semi auto handguns 7.65mm & +

     - semi auto and automatic rifles for military use

     - "normal" automatic weapons

2nd :- heavy military material (planes , tanks)

3rd :- NBC protection equipement...

4th :- handguns and long weapons that aren't included in 1st category , shotguns , some hunting rifles , .22 carbines and pistols for exemple

5th :- classic hunting rifles

6th :- knifes , batons , sticks , electric arks , teargas and other melee weapons

7th :- air guns (pellet carbines) , annulary percussion weapons (.22lr)

8th :- antics and neutralized weapons<span id='postcolor'>

NBC equiipment ranks 3rd? Does thhat mean bio suits and gas mask.

Deniors post on swediish laws sound pretty sensible though  like paratrooper said they even tried cracking down on airguns and the stupid general population wouldnt have said a word too Also foxhuntings banned up north now not that i give a damn about ponces in red coats running after a fox on horses but amount of hippies, totallly biased newspapers and crap that got it banned in the first place.<span id='postcolor'>

the french wepons classification is totally fucked up , that's what i can say , a scooter can be considered as a 2 category weapon only because it has wheels