Artillery

[pharoah 65]

I'm interested in these new M4 self propelled artillery pieces we're getting in the full game.

My question is....does anyone know how we will be able to either direct fire or get directed fire? Normally, you'd provide an 8 digit grid reference eg. 04293586 which should pinpoint an artillery mark within 10m or something (I'm guessing). So if I'm the one manning the M4, is there a way to accurately calculate the correct azimuth, etc of the gun to place rounds on target?

With the size of Altis and the ability of the M4 (I'm assuming) to send rounds out a few KMs, we'd need some sort of proper aiming process or methodology or something.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Pharoah

[maturin 12]

It'll probably be a magical point-and-click artillery computer until a few mods come out.

[Beagle 684]

It'll probably be a magical point-and-click artillery computer until a few mods come out.

The magical point and KLick on a digital map is already how the most medern artillery system work right now in 2013...Most modern systems can do that even remote controlled without anyone in or around the gun system itself...and it gets better, it can fire at targets picked up by a laser designator and transmitted electronically from a Arty obsrver vehicle using automatic fire solution computer (MICMOS 32/MICMOS 2000). This (2013 is no ore the pen, map and table age so why should 2035 be it? Welcoem to modern Warfare...and thats exactly why I always promoted an Successor to A2 to go back in time to a less technological warfare like fictional 70's. Edited August 15, 2013 by Beagle

[maturin 12]

I never said it should be a ruler on a map (except with light mortars). I'm pretty sure most of the world's fire computers still run primarily off grid refs, coordinates and observer headings that still require a minimum of user input.

The arty computer in OA magically displays where your shots land, removing the need for a FAC and preventing an observer from adjusting your fire because adjust fire doesn't exist as a feature.

[pharoah 65]

So I'm assuming this is how it will work in ARMA3? ie. point and click? The issue is....you need someone to direct it, whether its 1935 or 2035 ie. where to place rounds, how many (or for how long), when/where to adjust and especially, when to stop! Would be nice if the BIS boys actually released something on this.

[Beagle 684]

I never said it should be a ruler on a map (except with light mortars). I'm pretty sure most of the world's fire computers still run primarily off grid refs, coordinates and observer headings that still require a minimum of user input.

The arty computer in OA magically displays where your shots land, removing the need for a FAC and preventing an observer from adjusting your fire because adjust fire doesn't exist as a feature.

O.K. there is currentky only one self propelled Howitzer witch that sophistication. the Combo of PzH2000 and Fenek as artillery observer/spotter but you can be sure that General Dynamics Land System will offer something similar in a short time and so point and click is not far off for 2035...unfortunately because it sucks in MP big time when you get wiped out by magic you cant even see.

---------- Post added at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 ----------

So I'm assuming this is how it will work in ARMA3? ie. point and click? The issue is....you need someone to direct it, whether its 1935 or 2035 ie. where to place rounds, how many (or for how long), when/where to adjust and especially, when to stop! Would be nice if the BIS boys actually released something on this.

You have someoen to direct it and that's either you ordering yor A.I. Crew 20km away to fire at spot, or the guy that puts the marker on the map saying "Arty the Sxxxt out of this"...or you simply use the magic virtual arty module.

Not All that bad since it can remind the player that the guy with a Binocular 3km away and a radio may be more dangerous than a apc 500m away. Recon is and always was way to much neglected in the series and by the way Missions are set up.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Beagle

[kilroy the nerd 14]

Even in real life, artillery units still have to use mathematics to check, as computers make errors, evidently.

Although, personally, I still would vote for Arma 4 going back in time. To Korea, preferrably.

[Beagle 684]

Even in real life, artillery units still have to use mathematics to check, as computers make errors, evidently.

Although, personally, I still would vote for Arma 4 going back in time. To Korea, preferrably.

Humans do even more errors when it comes to mathematics. Tell me how else you would send out 8 rounds to impact at the same time and place manually...that's what PzH2000 and MICMOS 32/MICMOS 2000 haven proofen to be able to do. And there we go again...the more future the more like a 80's videogame the less actual gameplay is left in the game itself.

Compare it to the effort you need to get a kill in a WW1 Flightsim compared to a modern Sim where you spam AIM-120C and turn away home before the missiles impact.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Beagle

[pharoah 65]

Thats why I'm planning on doing it manually as much as possible. Unfortunately, even in 2013, missles and automation aren't the be all and end all of war. You still need someone to use their Mk I eyeballs at the end of the day. Like my old drill instructor used to say, it doesn't matter how technologically advanced you are, you never win until you put your boots on the enemy's ground. Thats why we'll need JTACs or observers.

I've been reading a lot of LLRP autobios from vietnam....absolutely love it. Am thinking of doing something similar with Altis ie. lone wolf type thing with a trusty radio and laser designator so that, if I found enemy inf/vehicles/etc, I could hopefully call in artillery or an air strike. THIS is where ARMA really shows its power.

[Beagle 684]

Thats why I'm planning on doing it manually as much as possible. Unfortunately, even in 2013, missles and automation aren't the be all and end all of war. You still need someone to use their Mk I eyeballs at the end of the day. Like my old drill instructor used to say, it doesn't matter how technologically advanced you are, you never win until you put your boots on the enemy's ground. Thats why we'll need JTACs or observers.

I've been reading a lot of LLRP autobios from vietnam....absolutely love it. Am thinking of doing something similar with Altis ie. lone wolf type thing with a trusty radio and laser designator so that, if I found enemy inf/vehicles/etc, I could hopefully call in artillery or an air strike. THIS is where ARMA really shows its power.

Yes and that's what I loved about the Red Harvest Campaign in A2, but MP drove into another direction and A2:OA made it even worse with even more "magic" devices. From a pure Team vs. Team gameplay standpoint it gets worse the further you put a game into the future...or you have to go he Mechwarrior way...it's set in a far future but feels more like youre actually fighting yoursef...not just TAB and wait for the magic to do the job.

[pharoah 65]

True but its not that far into the future.

I just hope I'm able to spot an enemy encampment from my little hide on Altis somewhere....radio in with a gridreference and have said encampment blown to smithereens....without worrying too much about being blown to smithereens myself because the artillery 'user' couldn't figure out how to make it work properly. I'm also wondering how the MLRS is meant to work given its not quite a precision weapon (or is it?).

[maturin 12]

Beagle, for someone who hates all mods, almost all your complaints are fixable by them.

My ArmA game has been dominated by bare-bones mortar employment with ruler and protractor, analog rangefinding and sight adjustment with ancient T-55 and RPG optics, tripwire IEDs and outdated antipersonnel mines, etc for years now, thanks to ACE 2.

On-topic, the setting makes map-click artillery acceptable so long as we can actually use a realistic UI to adjust fire according to observer instructions. That part's a lot more fun than memorizing and transcribing grid refs, which is rather odious.

[pharoah 65]

True, but thats why I was hoping BIS might have released something on this. I"m all about the challenge (I prefer Spits vs ME109s to F15s vs SU27s using AMRAAMs) and artillery is something that I'm interested in. I almost selected arty as my Corps back in my reserve days but there weren't any available slots. There's just something about shooting a 155mm shell 10kms away and landing it withint 50m of where someone (also approx 10kms away) wants me to. Thats skill. :)

[zedderzulu 7]

On a more gameplay side of things, and I hope this hasn't been mentioned before, but I was wondering whether there were any plans to simulate some of the features of the Future Combat Systems program into the game's mobile howitzers - especially the Non-Line-of-Sight cannon which, through the use of an autoloader could perform a "Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact" mission. The MRSI would basically see the onboard computer calculate variable trajectories so it fires numerous rounds at the target and has them basically all fall to earth at the same time. Actually it may well ruin gameplay, but when I first found out about it, it really struck me as something that would be desirable on a future battlefield, plus I don't think it would be *too* difficult to simulate through the artillery computer.

That said, the FCS program has since been cancelled, but, well, so has the Comanche.