The ultimate thread about Arma 3 anti-cheat discussion

[nuxil 2]

. VAC is NOT "freeware"

well. steamworks is free, vac is part of steamworks, if you chouse to use vac or not, you will still pay the same amount of $ in royalties to steam,

if you deside not to use steamwork you still have to pay royalties to steam for publishing the game. so yes its free.

http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/index.php

This is not a "problem", this is a strategy (used by BE as well and many others...): if you get immediately banned, you'll alert the community and only few cheaters will be caught, while silently flagging and then releasing a mass-ban you will get in the net alot more fishes. It also helps those cheaters to live in the paranoia of not knowing if they are banned already.

i know BE bans in waves sometimes too, not saying i like it. but its their stratergy. waiting several weeks like vac is a problem for thouse who run mmo/rpg mods which uses db. Not a seriouse issue for a small 6 coop mission.

imo, ban the cheat as fast as you can. let the cheat community know its not working anymore, there will be a new hack anyway, so why keep the hack active so the author of the hack has income from the hack for weeks, No stop it as soon as you can, so the word gets out. forces the hacker to spend time to make a new one instead of getting $. there will always be new hacks availeble after one is caught.

Edited March 20, 2013 by nuxil

[lee1hy 1]

We need Anti-TK system , shit multiplay

[WalkerDown 1]

well. steamworks is free

What what what??? Steam is one of the most expensive ways to publish your game... there's nothing free here. Steam is convenient (not for all, but for many) for a serie of reasons... that i won't discuss here, since we would be off topic. Any tool you have there (including VAC) is part of the package you're paying to VAC (then it's up to you to decide which of those to use).

i know BE bans in waves sometimes too, not saying i like it. but its their stratergy. waiting several weeks like vac is a problem for thouse who run mmo/rpg mods which uses db. Not a seriouse issue for a small 6 coop mission.

imo, ban the cheat as fast as you can. let the cheat community know its not working anymore, there will be a new hack anyway, so why keep the hack active so the author of the hack has income from the hack for weeks, No stop it as soon as you can, so the word gets out. forces the hacker to spend time to make a new one instead of getting $. there will always be new hacks availeble after one is caught.

The fact that you don't like it, doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. Any anti-cheat developer does the same, even Microsoft when has to ban the modded console uses the "ban-waves". The "immediate" bans happens only when the type of hack is already recognized and you try to use it.

It's like not arresting (intentionally) a single criminal: you leave him out to potentially perform other crimes, with the sole purpose of capturing the entiere band (or the bigger fishes). Again: it's a strategy.

[$able 2]

This is not a "problem", this is a strategy (used by BE as well and many others...): if you get immediately banned, you'll alert the community and only few cheaters will be caught, while silently flagging and then releasing a mass-ban you will get in the net alot more fishes. It also helps those cheaters to live in the paranoia of not knowing if they are banned already.

Several weeks is way too long, especially in a game like ArmA. And you forgot that VAC almost never detects private hacks (that is a fact, not some theory). That's an even bigger problem, because nowadays private hacks are dominating.

[nik21 1]

i know BE bans in waves sometimes too, not saying i like it. but its their stratergy. waiting several weeks like vac is a problem for thouse who run mmo/rpg mods which uses db. Not a seriouse issue for a small 6 coop mission.

imo, ban the cheat as fast as you can. let the cheat community know its not working anymore, there will be a new hack anyway, so why keep the hack active so the author of the hack has income from the hack for weeks, No stop it as soon as you can, so the word gets out. forces the hacker to spend time to make a new one instead of getting $. there will always be new hacks availeble after one is caught.

FYI, it doesen't make sense to ban private hacks immediately. Delayed bans have a purpose, this being to ban the highest possible amount of cheaters in an reasonable timeframe. A hack will most likely get updated anyway, so why not ban as much cheaters as possible as long as the length of the logging time window is acceptable? (VAC usually needs 4+ weeks... if you're lucky.. which is not a reasonable timeframe imo.)

edit: see above

[WalkerDown 1]

Several weeks is way too long, especially in a game like ArmA. And you forgot that VAC almost never detects private hacks (that is a fact, not some theory). That's an even bigger problem, because nowadays private hacks are dominating.

To be honest neither BE can do anything on certain hacks, but i won't blame you for it.. i know perfectly that if it's not impossible, it's surely hard, and it's not worth investing time into counterfight em, especially with passive hacks (like ESP's).

Btw i won't start criticize the "competitors", it always leads to unpleasant consequences (even if you're right)... leave it to the fanboys, coz i can't imagine asking Valve:

- "And about VAC, do you do anything against the private hacks"?

..and their reply:

- "Yes, absolutely"

..."then $able is lying?" :)

PS: talking about the time to ban, didn't BE took like 2 months to ban the Navigator (back in December), while even having the source code? I wouldn't call it exactly "private".

[nik21 1]

To be honest neither BE can do anything on certain hacks, but i won't blame you for it.. i know perfectly that if it's not impossible, it's surely hard, and it's not worth investing time into counterfight em, especially with passive hacks (like ESP's).

[...]

PS: talking about the time to ban, didn't BE took like 2 months to ban the Navigator (back in December), while even having the source code? I wouldn't call it exactly "private".

BE can perfectly do something about "passive" hacks like ESP's.. proven many times. If you think you found something which went untetected for a long(er) time, feel free to PM me...

As for the navi. I don't think that VAC would have been able to detect it AT ALL, since it is completely passive and does not modify any memory whatsoever.. I think we'll see it back with the Standalone, however my guess is that it will stay undetected longer as ever before, as long as VAC is the only AC in the game.. (There's still years old public hacks for VAC games that have been around since those games have been released and VAC has never picked it up).

[WalkerDown 1]

BE can perfectly do something about "passive" hacks like ESP's.. proven many times. If you think you found something which went untetected for a long(er) time, feel free to PM me...

Passive *AND* private ...

Atm you can re-compile the classes uses by the navi, making your own unique app, without being caught and without any encryption or masking tecnique, you don't even need to change the labeling.

As for the navi. I don't think that VAC would have been able to detect it AT ALL, since it is completely passive and does not modify any memory whatsoever.. I think we'll see it back with the Standalone, however my guess is that it will stay undetected longer as ever before, as long as VAC is the only AC in the game.. (There's still years old public hacks for VAC games that have been around since those games have been released and VAC has never picked it up).

This is not a war BE vs VAC... others have started the comparision, i've asked to use both.

[$able 2]

didn't BE took like 2 months to ban the Navigator (back in December)

As I told you before, please stick to the facts. It is true that certain hacks sometimes take a bit longer to detect (due to them trying to hide, etc.), but in most cases BE reacts within days.

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:30 ----------

Atm you can re-compile the classes uses by the navi, making your own unique app, without being caught and without any encryption or masking tecnique, you don't even need to change the labeling.

Actually that is not exactly true. Try to do that and see if you can play on a BE server without being kicked. :)

[awesomeddd 10]

As mentioned before, VAC has no admin panel and commands such as BE have. VAC has much more games (cod, cs, dota) and BE protects only 2 games (Warsaw and ArmA). This means that reaction will be fast.

PS. Navi was undetected much tome probably due to new year vacation.

[$able 2]

VAC has much more games (cod, cs, dota) and BE protects only 2 games (Warsaw and ArmA). This means that reaction will be fast.

PS. Navi was undetected much tome probably due to new year vacation.

BE would still be much faster if it protected more games (it doesn't protect Warsow anymore, btw). This has almost nothing to do with it. You are also wrong about the new year thing. Yes, whenever a hack is not immediately detected it must be because of vacation, right.

[awesomeddd 10]

BE would still be much faster if it protected more games.

Maybe faster than VAC, but not than protecting one game.

Btw, now BE protects only BIS games, yeah?

[nik21 1]

Btw, now BE protects only BIS games, yeah?

Atm it supports Arma 2 / Arma 2 Operation Arrowhead and Iron Front: Liberation 1944.

[TSAndrey 1]

Btw i won't start criticize the "competitors", it always leads to unpleasant consequences (even if you're right)... leave it to the fanboys, coz i can't imagine asking Valve:

- "And about VAC, do you do anything against the private hacks"?

..and their reply:

- "Yes, absolutely"

..."then $able is lying?" :)

PS: talking about the time to ban, didn't BE took like 2 months to ban the Navigator (back in December), while even having the source code? I wouldn't call it exactly "private".

As $able said, VAC almost never detects private cheats, which is a fact, not an opinion. If VAC told you otherwise, they would be lying!

I also just realized you are the same guy, that was bashing BE on the DayZ forums: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/119744-esp-hacks/

VAC has much more games (cod, cs, dota) and BE protects only 2 games (Warsaw and ArmA). This means that reaction will be fast.

PS. Navi was undetected much tome probably due to new year vacation.

VAC is also supported by a huge company (Valve), while BE is only coded by $able. It's pretty sad how $able still manages to do better than VAC

Edited March 20, 2013 by TSAndrey

[$able 2]

PS: i would hurry to counter fight the new script function hook they just released on UC... coz im annoyed to ban 5 ppl per day, before the new horde of kids will land on my server. ;)

Again shows how misinformed you are. What are you talking about?

[WalkerDown 1]

As I told you before, please stick to the facts. It is true that certain hacks sometimes take a bit longer to detect (due to them trying to hide, etc.), but in most cases BE reacts within days.

When it's not a fact, i specify "in my opinion", in this case IT IS a fact: BE took 67 days to detect DayZ Navigator (in that circumstance), while its source code (but not the library of course) were public. This is a fact: I've counted the days coz during that time DayZ i was very active on DayZ and i had multiple server full of users, i had to "live" on my servers (literally) to counterfight the number of cheaters using that publc hack. I didn't said BE is always that slow to detect a cheat.

Actually that is not exactly true. Try to do that and see if you can play on a BE server without being kicked. :)

Again: when i'm not sure about something i add: "in my opinion".. :) So yes, i'm sure: running the navigator today without being banned is a joke. Since BE atm doesn't dected the method (it couldn't) it just detect the "navigator running" (something that other anticheats like PB did years ago...).

PS: i would hurry to counter fight the new script function hook they just released on UC... coz im annoyed to ban 5 ppl per day, before the new horde of kids will land on my server. ;)

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

I also just realized you are the same guy, that was bashing BE on the DayZ forums: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/119744-esp-hacks/

Wow, Sherlock just figured that i'm the same guy with the same nick (while $able mentioned it 4 pages before..) that criticised an anticheat because of the unacceptable number of cheaters in DayZ. No prize for you sorry. :)

---------- Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:08 ----------

Again shows how misinformed you are. What are you talking about?

About the fact that you could kick a script function by simply accessing to its mem pointer? Now every lamer knows about it (yes, they were using it already so far.. but luckily only few of them, while now it is public on UC).

But hey, it's your work, so good luck!

[$able 2]

About the fact that you could kick a script function by simply accessing to its mem pointer? Now every lamer knows about it (yes, they were using it already so far.. but luckily only few of them, while now it is public on UC).

But hey, it's your work, so good luck!

Your claims are wrong again. The post you are talking about is incredibly old and BE detects these things with an innovative detection method that VAC or PB could never think of in all these years. When will you stop spreading misinformation?!

[WalkerDown 1]

Your claims are wrong again. The post you are talking about is incredibly old and BE detects these things with an innovative detection method that VAC or PB could never think of in all these years. When will you stop spreading misinformation?!

Someone resumed a (very) old post with a function hook that STILL works today (with diff pointer) and you talk to me about innovation? What do you want? Me streaming a POF to show you how it's easy to bypass the current anti-cheats? And why you're mentioning again the other anti-cheats? Even if they are less effective than BE, it won't make this anti-cheat automagically good.

You're painting the current situation as it's all good.. while IT IS NOT, Arma2 is full of cheaters, we're need to stem the mess, let's use 10 different anti-cheats if it would lead to have a SINGLE cheater less. I won't sit here again waiting for another game full of cheaters and hackers, coz i won't run a passworded/closed server.

[k3lt 3]

$able (and TSAndrey): the way you are trying to promote BE by bashing other anticheat software without any real data (prove me if i'm wrong) is pretty pathetic, just my 2 cents.

My favorite part:

VAC is also supported by a huge company (Valve), while BE is only coded by $able. It's pretty sad how $able still manages to do better than VAC

You do realize that only Team Fortress 2 has probably more players than all the games together which are supported by BE? (actually the only game that could be compared is DayZ, and we all know what happened mkay, stop fooling yourself.)

So basically pretty epic statement, waiting for more thanks for amusement. ;)

Edited March 20, 2013 by k3lt

[$able 2]

Someone resumed a (very) old post with a function hook that STILL works today (with diff pointer) and you talk to me about innovation? What do you want? Me streaming a POF to show you how it's easy to bypass the current anti-cheats? And why you're mentioning again the other anti-cheats? Even if they are less effective than BE, it won't make this anti-cheat automagically good.

You're painting the current situation as it's all good.. while IT IS NOT, Arma2 is full of cheaters, we're need to stem the mess, let's use 10 different anti-cheats if it would lead to have a SINGLE cheater less. I won't sit here again waiting for another game full of cheaters and hackers, coz i won't run a passworded/closed server.

I'm done with this. I'm not going to waste my energy on someone who's just making up stuff or claiming untrue things.

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

You're painting the current situation as it's all good..

Wrong again. Go back a few pages where I explained how unhappy I am about the current situation. Nothing is good whatsoever.

[nik21 1]

You do realize that only Team Fortress 2 has probably more players than all the games together which are supported by BE?

And on? Does that make VAC better in any way? You have proven to have no idea of what you're talking about here (see a few pages back...), so I don't think you're qualifield to integrate yourself in the current discussion.

[k3lt 3]

Yes it makes perfect sense, i have over 600 hours played in VAC protected games and i recall maybe 5-6 cheaters in that time.

I can probably find more in Arma 2 / DayZ within 1 hour window.

You're pretty great story tellers, but get back on earth please. ;)

Edited March 20, 2013 by k3lt

[TSAndrey 1]

Yes it makes perfect sense, i have over 600 hours played in VAC protected games and i recall maybe 5-6 cheaters in that time.

I can probably find more in Arma 2 / DayZ within 1 hour window.

You're pretty great story tellers, but get back on earth please. ;)

How do you know who is cheating? There could be tons of ESP cheaters you missed in your playtime...

Please, go do some research and compare VAC and BE detections. You will see that BE is much more effective

[k3lt 3]

Please, go do some research and compare VAC and BE detections. You will see that BE is much more effective

I'm pretty sure you have that data since you're claiming it for the last 48 pages of this discussion, so mind sharing it?

Hopefully it also includes the player numbers. ;)

[nik21 1]

Yes it makes perfect sense, i have over 600 hours played in VAC protected games and i recall maybe 5-6 cheaters in that time.

I can probably find more in Arma 2 / DayZ within 1 hour window.

Makes perfect sense, totally. Not.

What you are describing is simply a normal player's POV, but you seem to have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. Just because you recognize less cheaters in those games doesen't that mean the actual anticheat software is any better.

1. Cheaters do not care about being banned in OA due to the CD-Key Theft/ very cheap keys

2.The game has a very insecure scrip-based engine, which means all kinds of hacks are possible, cheaters can "destroy" enitre servers and make further gameplay impossible and any cheater will be recognized by the all players. BE script restriction filters and server-side filters can restrict this to a certain level if the server-admin has the know-how.

Another point why you can't really compare the Situation in Arma 2/ OA/ DayZ to other games like normal FP Shooters is, that you can't always tell who the cheater is. In any FPS an obvious aimbotter which is being recognized by both players and admins doesen't last longer than a few minutes on it, in ARMA however players can't have an idea where those scripts are coming from and even server admins with know-how can't always tell what the origin of the script is (not to mention bad administrated servers..) which means cheaters can "destroy" and empty out entire servers before a server-admin even react.

3. The sheer amount of cheaters and interest in cheating in Arma 2 which came with the popularity of DayZ plus everything listed above. And I can assure you, if VAC and not BE was the anticheat of Arma 2 it would be unplayable right now. And would have been since may. Without BE the project DayZ would have been abandoned in June.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?134314-Congratulations-Bohemia-Interactive&p=2173369&viewfull=1#post2173369

I'm pretty sure you have that data since you're claiming it for the last 48 pages of this discussion, so mind sharing it?

Hopefully it also includes the player numbers. ;)

Over 100.000 Global Bans by BE since June 15, 2012.

Comparison: 11,974 Global Punkbuster GUID Bans cached by PBBans in Battlefield 3 since October 25, 2011. http://www.pbbans.com/mbi-overall-ban-statistics.html

Need more?

Edited March 20, 2013 by Nik21