M2A2 Bradley problems

[Mr ThunderMakeR 0]

I was really disappointed with the Bradley in 1.30. Im no military expert, but even I noticed it.  Heres a short list...

- The commander position is almost worthless.  Its pretty much impossible to assign targets to the gunner.  Im not positive, but I think the real m2a2 comm turret is stationary.  However, there are serveral periscopes facing in every direction.  Im guessin BIS was trying to replicate this, if u look around the inside u can see a bunch of periscopes, but u can only use the FRONT ONE!

- Where is the AP ammo??? Its supposed to have it.  Heres a quote from FAS (a great source of military info), "The Bradley’s main armament is the M242 25mm "Bushmaster" Chain Gun, manufactured by McDonnell Douglas. The M242 has a single barrel with an integrated dual-feed mechanism and remote ammunition selection. Either armor piercing (AP) or high explosive (HE) ammunition may be selected with the flick of a switch."  Why cant i do this in the game?

- The rate of fire for an ai gunner is ridiculously low! From FAS again, "The standard rate of fire is 200 rounds per minute, and has a range of 2,000 meters (depending on the ammunition used)."  An ai gunners rof isnt even near this!

-The TOWs are almost harmless.  Another quote from FAS, "The range of the TOW missile is nearly 4 kilometers and the missile will reach a speed of almost Mach 1 on its way to the target. This weapon is capable of destroying any armored vehicle in existence today and is deadly accurate."  In the game, it takes more than 2 tows to destroy a t72, and 4 to destroy a t80!  One tow alone should be enough to completely disable each of the tanks, if not destroy them!

-The braking power is surprisingly weak... in the game it takes longer and more space to stop a bradley than an abrams(a much heavier tank).

-There is a moonwalking effect in the tracks, not a big deal but it should be fixed.

-When rearming at an ammo truck, u only get 2 tows instead of the complete loadout of 8...another small bug

Two more quotes from FAS:

-"The vehicle's reliability, survivability and lethality has surpassed initial expectations. Of the 2,200 Bradleys involved in Operation Desert Storm, only three were disabled. In fact, more enemy armored vehicles were destroyed by Bradleys than by the Abrams Main Battle Tanks!"

-"It possesses sufficient cross-country mobility to keep up with the Abrams Main Battle Tank, medium and long-range firepower capable of defeating ANY VEHICLE ON THE BATTLEFIELD"

Its easy to see just how much BIS screwed up on this one....

Most of these problems would be easy to fix such as the weapons damages and braking speed.   It might be a lil bit tougher to fix the comm turret, but there must be a better way than just rendering uselss like BIS did.

Heres the FAS site on Bradley:

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2.htm

[Aaron Kane 0]

Hear hear! I agree completely! Even though IFV's dont have the armor of modern tanks, their weapons arent to be sneered at, a TOW or AT-5 will ruin any tankers day!

[sgtdwetzel 0]

I agree with pretty much all that was said - gamewise.....but I have to give a tanker's viewpoint on a few of the FAS comments....

1 - Yes...the TOW2 is a very deadly weapon, and it is good out to 4000M.....BUT - flight time is a killer.  Flight time for a TOW at standard engagement distance is in the range 15-17 SECONDS.  AND...it has to be guided to the target by the gunner.  In 15 seconds, I can have 4(possibly 5) main gun rounds hitting your position.  And that is just from 1 tank - standard element is 4 tanks.  AND - being optically guided...human error is magnified because of the flight time.  I watched 4 TOW's get fired last year at 2500m targets.....2 hits.

2 - The Bradley did very well in the desert to keep up with the M1A1's.....but I can tell you from experience - in rough terrain, they CANNOT keep up.  Plus....you really POUND the troops you have in the back.

Aaron - the AT-5 is pretty much worthless on the battlefield, and has been since early 80's. Not enough penetration, shorter range(3000m),and VERY slow(200m/sec).

Just my personal opinions and experiences here - but we call the Bradley the "Aluminium Coffin"

(Edited by sgtdwetzel at 3:47 pm on Nov. 20, 2001)

[The Blind Sniper 0]

I agree with basically all of that

The TOWS should possibly be a bit stronger.. but not one shot one kill. (as it is in real life)

If it was, that'd mean that tanks should get blown away one shot by helicopters, and other tanks. Helicopters should get blown away one shot from a stinger, etc.

They could do all this, and I wouldnt mind so much.. however it does make it annoying to be in a vehicle, and would make the game completely soldier-based, as being in a vehicle of any kind gets you dead in a matter of seconds. As it is I prefer to run around in the forest with a LAW & M21 or in towns with an M60.

However its annoying having missiles that take several shots to kill a tank, if you're in something which gets blown away instantly.

Finding a real balance is hard.

[LordZach 0]

Have to use external view to assign anything. No idea why they saw the need to make the TOW on it suck.

[Athos 0]

The Bradley's TOW is fairly puny (in game) - but the rate of fire far exceeds any Soviet missile in OFP.  The double launcher allows a deadly 'double tap' on locked targets (obviously not possible IRL).  Additionally load time for the launcher is quite a bit faster than either of the BMPs.

I reckon it should be noted that missiles still wound and kill crew in OFP - sometimes when only a small amount of damage is done to the vehicle.

The one thing damage wise I would really like to see - is more survivable APCs.  One RPG or LAW killing everyone on the vehicle everytime is a bit silly - makes APCs a liability.

(Edited by Athos at 4:20 pm on Nov. 22, 2001)

[DarthBeavis 0]

Gunner and TC sit next to eachother in same turret. One rotates, they both do. There are periscopes around the TC's headd if I remember correctly (as there are for the driver. Observers also have periscopes.

[fixOPFsoundsplease 0]

I agree with, sgtdwetzel, he has found the equilibrium for the TOW issue.

But the Bradley and all other APCs need to disable more often then they explode - thats gonna make the game more fun.

(Edited by fixOPFsoundsplease at 7:45 am on Nov. 25, 2001)

[fixOPFsoundsplease 0]

"The one thing damage wise I would really like to see - is more survivable APCs. One RPG or LAW killing everyone on the vehicle everytime is a bit silly - makes APCs a liability. "

I wont repeat _your_self hehe. Just read the post I replied to the top posts first.

[pzvg 0]

Having seen up close what a Shaped charge ATGM (In this case from a camera inside a M2 being hit by a Law 80 at Aberdeen) does inside an APC, you couldn't be further from the truth, It's actually considered an AOG (Act of God) if anyone lives thru a penetrating hit.

Try this, next time you're riding in back of the Brad in OFP, look around, note how close to you the rest of the guys are, then Imagine a Tongue of hot Plasma at around 7200 degrees and around 7 inches in diameter, suddenly joining you in that space, It AIN'T pretty.

[fixOPFsoundsplease 0]

Ahh, you as our new Fearless Leader know much of real life. Yet shall we not leave that for real life only?

Loose the realism if it sucks the game.

[pzvg 0]

Not to rain on your parade fix, but,

I'm not fearless, I've known fear and we've become very close:)

And realism has it's rewards, eg; it makes you think a little harder before commiting acts of dubious value.

I know a lot of folks would rather have more Fun than reality allows, so be it, you did buy the game.

Myself, I'd like a little more reality, 'cuz that's where tactical thinking shines.

Btw "Leader" is a tad strong, I at no time attempted to guide,force, or persuade you to change your mind, I simply provided knowledge that I was in possesion of, What you choose to do with that is your lookout mate.

[Devil 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Mr ThunderMakeR on 3:28 am on Nov. 20, 2001

I was really disappointed with the Bradley in 1.30. Im no military expert, but even I noticed it.  Heres a short list...

- The commander position is almost worthless.  Its pretty much impossible to assign targets to the gunner.  Im not positive, but I think the real m2a2 comm turret is stationary.  However, there are serveral periscopes facing in every direction.  Im guessin BIS was trying to replicate this, if u look around the inside u can see a bunch of periscopes, but u can only use the FRONT ONE!

- Where is the AP ammo??? Its supposed to have it.  Heres a quote from FAS (a great source of military info), "The Bradley’s main armament is the M242 25mm "Bushmaster" Chain Gun, manufactured by McDonnell Douglas. The M242 has a single barrel with an integrated dual-feed mechanism and remote ammunition selection. Either armor piercing (AP) or high explosive (HE) ammunition may be selected with the flick of a switch."  Why cant i do this in the game?

- The rate of fire for an ai gunner is ridiculously low! From FAS again, "The standard rate of fire is 200 rounds per minute, and has a range of 2,000 meters (depending on the ammunition used)."  An ai gunners rof isnt even near this!

-The TOWs are almost harmless.  Another quote from FAS, "The range of the TOW missile is nearly 4 kilometers and the missile will reach a speed of almost Mach 1 on its way to the target. This weapon is capable of destroying any armored vehicle in existence today and is deadly accurate."  In the game, it takes more than 2 tows to destroy a t72, and 4 to destroy a t80!  One tow alone should be enough to completely disable each of the tanks, if not destroy them!

-The braking power is surprisingly weak... in the game it takes longer and more space to stop a bradley than an abrams(a much heavier tank).

-There is a moonwalking effect in the tracks, not a big deal but it should be fixed.

-When rearming at an ammo truck, u only get 2 tows instead of the complete loadout of 8...another small bug

Two more quotes from FAS:

-"The vehicle's reliability, survivability and lethality has surpassed initial expectations. Of the 2,200 Bradleys involved in Operation Desert Storm, only three were disabled. In fact, more enemy armored vehicles were destroyed by Bradleys than by the Abrams Main Battle Tanks!"

-"It possesses sufficient cross-country mobility to keep up with the Abrams Main Battle Tank, medium and long-range firepower capable of defeating ANY VEHICLE ON THE BATTLEFIELD"

Its easy to see just how much BIS screwed up on this one....

Most of these problems would be easy to fix such as the weapons damages and braking speed.   It might be a lil bit tougher to fix the comm turret, but there must be a better way than just rendering uselss like BIS did.

Heres the FAS site on Bradley:

<a href="http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2.htm

<span" target="_blank">http://fas.org/man....e><span</a> id='postcolor'>

Well, he does have a point ...