What is needed to take the feel of arma3 weapons to world class levels?

[twisted 128]

earlier today i read a comment on another forum that weapons in arma series is like weapons Pritt stuck on the screen. at first i was bugger that. but then i took a closer look at arma2 OA and the videos i've seen for arma3.

I can sorta see where they are coming from, but stuck on flat is a gross exaggeration.

a few things that maybe could use improving are...

Some inertia affecting the weapon after you stop moving, so the gun sorta moves a bit like it would when a human is holding it. this should not be disruptive and instantly transitioned away if right mouse button (sight view) is clicked. right now it is so abrupt and the weapon mechanically slots into place.

the same as above but after each shot. the small but perceptible recovery that a human has to make to the rifle to put it back on target that could help make it look real.

the hands are too huge for the perspective. by this it seems that the rifle is experiencing acute foreshortening but the hand isnt and so looks giant in comparison.

figure 8 weaving aimprecision not the random drift we have now. based on exhaustion and woundedness.

more advanced recoil that goes left/right as well as up/down for starters.

not instantly getting the sight view up. it takes a bit longer that instantly.

weapons that at handled at a speed and way that depends on their size. smg = fast. lmg = noticably slower and bumps into more walls.

Not sure if there's time enough before the rapidly apporaching alpha (v lookign forward to it), but maybe we get some big pleasant surprises. BIS has been full of them this year.

[LeeManatee 4]

you see weapon and hands from correct perspective (center between eyes) try to hold weapon irl. and it takes just alright time to start aiming. thats about reaction. no need to make it any slower.

idk about animations you are talking abot. i play since arma 1 and feel just fine.

[metalcraze 290]

Not sure about hands but twisted is right about everything else.

[-Coulum- 35]

Well I already think that arma’s weapon handling is superior to many other shooters out there but it still needs to have massive improvements to make the flow of the game more realistic. Here's what I think:

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Smoother, but more noticeable sway that follows a predictable figure eight pattern.

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Longer time to align the sights after they have been brought up

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A short period of time (depending on the weight of gun) for the rifle to be steadied after a character: shoots, moved the gun “too suddenly†(threshold of “too sudden†would depend on weapon weight and size), brought up the sights, moved, or has been suppressed.

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Recoil that is more random and harder to predict that occasionally goes left and right depending on the rifle. It seems right now recoil is always handled in the exact same way. In reality, sometimes shooters don’t handle there recoil well and sometimes they handle it very well. Nobody consistently controls recoil like you do in arma (at least no one I know)

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Also, if auto raising and lowering of weapons is implemented in tight spaces, lighter weapons should be lifted faster than heavier ones to make it worth taking a pistol or smg in CQB

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Those changes would make firefights a lot more realistic, would make shooting more immersive and make different weapons suit different situations. It would also make stance, and weapon resting (in ace at least) far more important than it is now.

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Also, another idea I just thought of. Make it so weapons have momentum. Right now you move your rifle and it snaps to wherever you point it. My idea would be that rifles will actually over swing where you are pointing if they are too heavy and you move them too quickly. Ie. if you swing your saw right to point at a target, it will actually pass over the target and keep continuing right a small distance past the target depending on how hard you swung it and the weight of the gun. Then it will automatically swing back left to the target – if you swung hard enough initially, it would actually overshoot again and swing to far left but to a lesser degree this time. This would continue until eventually the gun steadied on target. Don’t know if I am explaining this properly or if it would be a good idea but I think it might make large weapons like m107’s feel real heavy and clunky, while making smg feel light and natural. ***

Edit - oh just saw the spoiler. Basically the same as what I said. I agree with those suggestions.

Edited May 15, 2012 by -Coulum-

[antoineflemming 14]

-Coulum-, BIS actually has to implement bringing up your sights before they can make any adjustments to the time it takes to bring up your sights and aligning them. The reason it's just a snap change to looking through your sights is because the character doesn't bring up his sights; the first person camera changes position to looking through the sights. There is no animation for the character bringing up his weapon and looking through his sights. Pretty unrealistic, I know. The character should bring up his sights, and position the sights aligned with his right eye. The sights should be in the right position relative to the character's eye, not relative to the camera view. And, if the camera view is not looking through the sights when the sights are aligned with the character's right eye, then BIS should change the camera view to the correct position, and not change the animation to suit the first person camera view.

[whiskeytango 11]

Adding things like this makes people complain that control and animations are too clunky and need to be more urgent.

[-Coulum- 35]

Adding things like this makes people complain that control and animations are too clunky and need to be more urgent.

Yeah that is true. But if it were only a really noticeable for heavy weapons, that would be a good thing in my opinion, because even in reality large weapons feel kind of awkward to clunky to handle quickly. It would make a SAW very clunky in CQB, discouraging improper use, would make an m16 feel just as clunky as it does in CQB now, and an smg feel like you are playing BF3 or something. I think that would be a great addition to the game and make decisions between taking say an m16, m4 or FN2000 a tough decision that will have a large effect on the game. Right now, the only difference I notice between these weapons is the scope, but with more advanced weapon handling I think that would change. Also, if an auto raise and lowering of weapons is implemented when a a weapon would collide with a wall or object, I think this will eliminate a fair bit of the "clunkiness" people feel in a2.

Although the only way to find out if a more advanced weapon handling system will help gameplay is simply to test it out. I really hope that BIS plan to test and tweak these kind of things in the alpha.

Edited May 16, 2012 by -Coulum-

[twisted 128]

Adding things like this makes people complain that control and animations are too clunky and need to be more urgent.

quite a few of the newer shooters show some evidence of this extra detail and they are designed for twitch shooting a shit load more than arma3 will be and they feel very responsive, much more so than arma2 weapons actually.

[batto 17]

It would make a SAW very clunky in CQB, discouraging improper use, would make an m16 feel just as clunky as it does in CQB now, and an smg feel like you are playing BF3 or something.

Also judging by some firefight footages from Afghanistan it seems it's almost impossible to hold SAW (or other LMG) in ready-to-fire position as it is now in A2 when standing or walking. I suggest aim distruption after a while depending on gun weight. This could make manual weapon lowering useful (is there any use for it right now?). Raise speed should depend on gun weight. Currently raising M4 seems too slow and raising SAW too fast. I will go to wishlist thread soon...

Oops, it's in ACE already? I didn't notice it in your previous post.

Adding things like this makes people complain that control and animations are too clunky and need to be more urgent.

New tactical position (jogging with weapon ready to fire) may be the answer.

Edited May 16, 2012 by batto

[metalcraze 290]

Another problem is that in vanilla M107 feels just as lightweight as M4. Not hard to aim even while standing (same amount of random sway essentially) and only the recoil makes them different. This is silly.

Being good with sniper rifles should take skill.

[batto 17]

Another problem is that in vanilla M107 feels just as lightweight as M4. Not hard to aim even while standing (same amount of random sway essentially) and only the recoil makes them different. This is silly.

Being good with sniper rifles should take skill.

This turns sniper rifles into easy railguns (played a lot of DM yesterday, yay!). Chocolate dot on screen is easy workaround for disabled crosshair (not my experience =)).

[SandboxPlaya 10]

Another problem is that in vanilla M107 feels just as lightweight as M4. Not hard to aim even while standing (same amount of random sway essentially) and only the recoil makes them different. This is silly.

Being good with sniper rifles should take skill.

And that makes SuperOverpowered in multiplayer. Also, its 100% perfect shoulder-fired accuracy turning it into a great CQB shotgun makes everything exponentially worse. Sniper rifles shouldn't have a crosshair at all IMO.