Community Update No. 3

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

ok NS i've got your mod to work, and it feels REALLY good compared to the default FM! THANKS! there's finally torque now when i take off and the sync rate is some what true to life and i don't notice too much ground effect, i think there's still a little bit. also can you tell me if you've programmed in the three kinds of LTE? because the tail feels slightly twitchy when in a hover and i have to adjust for it constantly which is great. though that just might be my old pedals playing tricks on me. i also did a quick auto with full engine shutdown and it's SOOOO much easier to perform now since there seem to be more engine rpm after the flare so when i pull collective i get a lot more "air" time to settle the helicopter down, though that air time seems a bit unrealistic because if i pull too much collective i can actually gain altittude. all in all great work and i hope you can fix the excessive translating tendency during foward flight which i've noticed quite a bit.

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

i have a ton of Torque with just your file MD,to the point i have hardly any left rudder pedal ,i can fly and turn with just pitch alone,to the right,anything over say around 60% to 100% just spins the chopper around to the right with full left rudder.at 50% below its better but still riding the left pedal a heap like constantly ,i actually find it nearly imposable to fly the helicopter smoothly at all,trimmed in forward flight and hovering trimed,the left pedal is week as like slight turn with hard left ,there seems to me there is far to much torque? like below 60% below 50% ,but yeah above 60% to 100%% i would expect a big hit in torque as you hardly would ever go there ,i will have to show you in a server or via a video,but as far as every thing else gos its seems ok chopper is responsive,its just the torque is huge for me ???

but also another thing if i could control my RPM that would make a huge difference as im use to setting my RPM to suit or compensate torque that would be a huge + but i haven't ever been able to set a throttle to anything on my x 52 ???

keep up the great works lads

Have u tried increasing your pedal sensitivity?

[AZY 1]

oh yes MD you are correct i had about 85% dialed in there and i have now put it 100% and yes a lot better but torque is slightly is taking over but not that bad ,but in saying that im so use to to hammering the pitch around with ome settings,so flying with slower input and using less pitch its seems to be allot better

i just have to change my flying style and stick dead zones and travels thanks for the heads up

i am now finding the helicopter allot better after flying it a bit more

once you guys can work out the torque affect and smooth it out more its going to be great

thanks guys

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

so just a note to the non pilots with the new torque effect that resembles real life. whenever you pull collective you have to add more left pedal, the more you pull the more left pedal you add to keep the same heading. opposite is true if you lower collective, more you lower more you need to add right pedal. practice climbing and descending in slow flight while maintaining the same heading to get the "feel" for it.

[hon0 10]

Woot surpised me the most in the first minute was that when I push or pull the cyclic HARDLY, it produce an important "as the pedal" effect ^^.

Then it was the anti torque. It's different in this verssion ! We've to push much more than previously to keep the same heading. And more and more if we try a fast acceleration, it's great !

[AZY 1]

yeah all true,the biggest thing i have found out now is , re fine tuning the joy stick travels (that is a must), and dead zones its now realistic. torque though is still aggressive above 50% pitch but its all good, it certainly makes you slow down on inputs and smooths out your flying skill as you need far less pitch input,but my hovering is now no were as good as its spose to be ,more practice, practice , practice

cheers dudes

[nightsta1ker 10]

Brain food:

The more collective (power) you add, the more torque you are applying to the airframe through the drive train. So as you pull more power to accelerate, you will need more left pedal to compensate. The amount of left pedal needed is NOT linked to airspeed. In fact, one of the issues I am sussing out is there does not seem to be an increase in tail rotor efficiency as the helicopter gains speed. In a real helicopter, alot of left pedal is needed in a hover, and also if the relative wind is blowing into the rotor, it can make it less efficient so you would need even more left pedal to compensate. When the helicopter moves into forward flight, both the main and the tail rotors start to become more efficient, so almost immediately the pilot needs to start REDUCING left pedal (or applying right pedal, however you want to think about it) as airspeed increases. My current mod is not reflecting this. I spent the last few hours reading through RTD's flight dynamics wiki that explains what all the values are and what they do. I have a few ideas, but nothing so easy as "HERE it is! This is the value you need to change!". It's more like I have a few things that I know affect it in some way and I need to find a balance between several values.

About to dive in again. If I make any noteworthy changes I will upload them and post the link.

[AZY 1]

keep up the great work man your doing a fantastic job on it,thanks for your hard work dude :D

[hon0 10]

At NightStalker. You could use something as dropbox to share your Flight Model. (Change language botton right)

Thanks for all this "brain food" & good courage for the next !

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

Brain food:

The more collective (power) you add, the more torque you are applying to the airframe through the drive train. So as you pull more power to accelerate, you will need more left pedal to compensate. The amount of left pedal needed is NOT linked to airspeed. In fact, one of the issues I am sussing out is there does not seem to be an increase in tail rotor efficiency as the helicopter gains speed. In a real helicopter, alot of left pedal is needed in a hover, and also if the relative wind is blowing into the rotor, it can make it less efficient so you would need even more left pedal to compensate. When the helicopter moves into forward flight, both the main and the tail rotors start to become more efficient, so almost immediately the pilot needs to start REDUCING left pedal (or applying right pedal, however you want to think about it) as airspeed increases. My current mod is not reflecting this. I spent the last few hours reading through RTD's flight dynamics wiki that explains what all the values are and what they do. I have a few ideas, but nothing so easy as "HERE it is! This is the value you need to change!". It's more like I have a few things that I know affect it in some way and I need to find a balance between several values.

About to dive in again. If I make any noteworthy changes I will upload them and post the link.

ah yes i haven't even stopped to think about the streamlining effect in foward flight and was wondering why my heading's all over the place in forward flight. with muscle memory i keep letting go of the left pedal and end up out of trim when i pick up speed, hopefully you'll find the values for it and be able to fix it.

[nightsta1ker 10]

At NightStalker. You could use something as dropbox to share your Flight Model. (Change language botton right)

Thanks for all this "brain food" & good courage for the next !

I like mediafire just fine. Dropbox is basically the same thing right?

[hon0 10]

I don't know media fire. Watch the 2min video dropbox presentation :)

Cheers

Antoine

/afk bed

[OMAC 254]

Are many keyboards users using such setup? Default setup seems to be different, allowing you to control collective smoothly (at the expense of the longer time going from 0 to 100 %).

Regarding kb/mouse key bindings, here is what I wrote to DnA when the community preview was still in development (6/29/11) in response to an inquiry from him regarding kb/mouse use in ToH. I have edited it to remove references to "thrust," as collective used to be erroneously called in the preview and in A2.

Here are my bindings:

Q - collective raise ("increase thrust" in A2)

Z - collective lower ("decrease thrust" in A2)

Left Shift (LS)- collective raise (analogue), "thrust" in A2

Left Windows (LW) - collective lower (analogue), "brake" in A2

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost....&postcount=166

Daniel in the forums suggested remapping Q/Z to the analog variants, as you are doing, but I found that to be a bad setup.

Q is necessary to gradually increase collective - at about 75% you will hover - above that you will rise, below that you will sink. Collective can be locked at 100% by holding Q for a few seconds. I like to use Q on takeoff, and lock collective on max during fast flight. Z slowly decreases collective which can sometimes be useful to get collective down to hover level.

Analogue controls:

Gives digital control over the collective; I hold LS "collective raise (analogue)" for instant maximum collective (100%) and LW "collective lower (analogue)" for instant minimum. If you hit LS when locked at max thrust (obtained by using Q to slowly rise to max), collective will be kicked down instantly to 50%. If you are holding down LS, giving you max collective, letting go knocks it to 50% (below hover level). Analogue collective must be held down for maximum speed, which is a pain during flight; I only use it during landing for more sensitive control, and sometimes on takoff - I use Q/Z during flight.

.....

Let me know if you want more info. For keyboard users, the functionality/sensitivity of the keys is ABSOLUTELY VITAL for fun gameplay - please test carefully, and have the analog controls mapped to keys by default (they are not now, leading to MUCH confusion for A2/CO players). Make sure that you have a good boot camp for ToH heli flight, and nice tooltips at upper right in screen for basic heli operation (like "Use analog collective controls during landing!") I wasted hours screwing around with Q/Z thrust controls before I figured out about the analog collective controls which are not used or mapped in A2/CO.

Note that I use BOTH Q/Z and analog controls. I find the analog controls are essential on landing and nice on takeoff. These bindings are now permanently burned into my brain. Analog collective controls still are not mapped by default, and I can't live without them.

Note also that I am not a pilot, and nightstalker will scoff (;)) at my frequent use of max collective, but it works big time in both the current FM and in his first community mod FM.

Nightstalker, thank you for your very kind offer to make a new FM for us lowly kb/mouse users, but, as Angus Young (Ziggy) wrote, please don't bother for our sake. I'm sure a vast majority of ToH pilots use controllers, so it would be best for you to stick with satisfying them. Perhaps I will try your FM #2 and just try and stay away from max collective, although that will be very difficult.

Now this is just for Ziggy:

9rrqhPmzErc

Rock on, brother. Pure energy. One of my all-time favorites.

[nightsta1ker 10]

Too early to say for sure, but I think that the the numbers for thrust produced by the tail rotor were inverted, which is to say that as forward speed increased, the thrust produced by the tail rotor increased, but the wrong way. I need to play with some numbers and do some more thorough tests, but I think I might be on to something that will make us all happy. Here's hoping.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

You didn't have to post this but you did, but you did, but you did..... And I Thank You :cool:

[EagleEye-GER- 0]

.... reading through RTD's flight dynamics wiki

Pls can you direct me to the Wiki. Can`t find it, thanks.:)

[b101_uk 10]

I think you should change the tail rotor to

about +-3

<Controls A1UL="0" A1LL="0" B1UL="0" B1LL="0" thetaLL="15" thetaUL="-27" useExtendedCollectiveRange="true"/>

i.e. replicating take-off/ground efect hover trim, as it is you have to much thrust to the left, also the rotor is on the left so works backwards so the thetaUL (upper level) is a higher negative number while the thetaLL (lower level) is a smaller positive number – opposite to e.g. the medium heli with its tail rotor on the right.

As centre trim (side thrust balancing torque) would logically be at ~50% to ~60% of the torque load or i.e. sat on the top of ~5ft to 10ft ground effect at ~ 2913lb (~1322kg) TOW, or think of it as maybe how you would leave your trim if you had just got out of your helicopter 5 mins ago and were about to take off agene, it can be just as easy to power/lift into trim as to power/lift out of trim IF you know how you left it trimmed – i.e. to kick a little right in before it goes neutral then adding more power you have to add some left to counter torque. (may also help keyboard uses)

also you have done something to the blades i suspect giving them a "range" that is outside what the game will allow as the moving the cyclic back and forth with collective fully down sat on the ground the torque gauge goes straight to 110% ultimately damaging things while little in the way of anything hapaning to justify the torque gauge reading and damage.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

;2065258']Pls can you direct me to the Wiki. Can`t find it' date=' thanks.:)[/quote']

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Helicopter_Flight_Model_Config_%28XML%29

[EagleEye-GER- 0]

-Ziggy-;2065393']http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Helicopter_Flight_Model_Config_%28XML%29

Ah thank you mate! I swear I looked on the ToH wiki and doesn`t found it.

[nightsta1ker 10]

I think you should change the tail rotor to

about +-3

<Controls A1UL="0" A1LL="0" B1UL="0" B1LL="0" thetaLL="15" thetaUL="-27" useExtendedCollectiveRange="true"/>

i.e. replicating take-off/ground efect hover trim, as it is you have to much thrust to the left, also the rotor is on the left so works backwards so the thetaUL (upper level) is a higher negative number while the thetaLL (lower level) is a smaller positive number – opposite to e.g. the medium heli with its tail rotor on the right.

As centre trim (side thrust balancing torque) would logically be at ~50% to ~60% of the torque load or i.e. sat on the top of ~5ft to 10ft ground effect at ~ 2913lb (~1322kg) TOW, or think of it as maybe how you would leave your trim if you had just got out of your helicopter 5 mins ago and were about to take off agene, it can be just as easy to power/lift into trim as to power/lift out of trim IF you know how you left it trimmed – i.e. to kick a little right in before it goes neutral then adding more power you have to add some left to counter torque. (may also help keyboard uses)

also you have done something to the blades i suspect giving them a "range" that is outside what the game will allow as the moving the cyclic back and forth with collective fully down sat on the ground the torque gauge goes straight to 110% ultimately damaging things while little in the way of anything hapaning to justify the torque gauge reading and damage.

I'm afraid you have completely lost me. :386:

[RaptorFuel 1]

How do i apply this? I have the steam version and I cannot figure out where to put these files.

[hon0 10]

How do i apply this? I have the steam version and I cannot figure out where to put these files.

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\take on helicopters\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\.XML should be here

That's all. Enjoy

Edited December 3, 2011 by hon0

[AZY 1]

How do i apply this? I have the steam version and I cannot figure out where to put these files.

dump the HSim file in: (this is for steam users)

c: drive /Program files (x86)/steam/steam apps/common/take on helicopters

your hard drive /program files x86 is for 64bit users if 32 bit you will just have program files

thats it your good to go

haha Hon we posted that exactly at the same time man lol :eek:

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

btw nightstalker, is it possible to configure xml so that whenever we do left pedal turns during a hover we get reduced power so we descend slightly and vice versa for right pedal turns?

[RaptorFuel 1]

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\take on helicopters\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\.XML should be here

That's all. Enjoy

I don't have the "\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\" part in my TOH steam folder. It doesn't exist. I did a search on my computer.

[b101_uk 10]

I don't have the "\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\" part in my TOH steam folder. It doesn't exist. I did a search on my computer.

you have to add the "\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\" part i.e. drop the "HSim" folder in the .zip file into your main Take On Helicopters root folder thus making "C:\..\..\..\Take On Helicopters\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\"