What makes a hero?

[Longinius 1]

Was reading through news articles when I got to work today and came across this http://www.expressen.se/article.asp?id=111281

Its in Swedish sadly, but the guy in the picture is the busdriver that drove the bus that recently was blown up in Israel. He is 60 years old and he has survived four terrorist attacks in less than 1 year, three of which were directed at his bus and the other directed at a bus in front of him.

When a car pulled up next to his bus this time and detonated its load next to the bus gastank he was briefly KO'd as the bus was thrown forward. When he got to his senses he managed to get out and start pulling people from the bus. He kept on pulling until the flames were to intense and started to cause burns on his body.

What is this about then? Well, we often see articles or posts about heroes. To me, it is more heroic for a person to go above and beyond than to "merely" do their job (like a police officer or firefighter). I mean, that busdriver wasn't required to risk his life to save others but he did so anyway. That is mighty heroic in my book.

[Antichrist 0]

Ordinary people who do extraordinary things at extraordinary times!

[Longinius 1]

Yeah, for sure. I take a bus to and from work everyday and I have a hard time picturing most of those drivers as heroic. They mostly pick their noses and look grumpy.

[Warin 0]

You're totally right. That driver embodies everything that the word 'heroic' implies. He risked his life to save people when a lot of folks would have run for safety. What is that quote from John Wayne on the death screen in OFP..

Courage is being scared... and saddling up anyways.

And if fits here. You can bet that that guy wasnt thinking about heroic he was being...he was scared to death that he was going to die. But he did it anyways. I wish there was an english text to that story...because it's always nice to read about someone who does this sort of thing.

[Longinius 1]

Well, the Swedish reporter must have found it somewhere. I didnt see it on CNN but he might have gotten it of some Israeli local newssite. Maybe Avon can help there.

[FallenPaladin 0]

Sure he`s a hero. I saw him on the news yesterday. And I guess he`ll probably continue driving bus... Admirable!

[Longinius 1]

Its an odd world... Another heroic man died here in Sweden today from wounds he recieved when trying to stop what he thought was a carjacking. In fact the man stealing the car had just robbed a postal office. As the "hero" tried to pull the robber from the car he got shot in the gut and died in the hospital this morning.

I just wonder how I myself would react in a situation like that. I sure hope I have the awareness to not risk my life over such a simple thing as a car. All though, I can understand why the man did it. He was probably fed up about the rising criminality and decreasing police efforts.

[FetishFool 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ June 07 2002,02:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its an odd world... Another heroic man died here in Sweden today from wounds he recieved when trying to stop what he thought was a carjacking. In fact the man stealing the car had just robbed a postal office. As the "hero" tried to pull the robber from the car he got shot in the gut and died in the hospital this morning.

I just wonder how I myself would react in a situation like that. I sure hope I have the awareness to not risk my life over such a simple thing as a car. All though, I can understand why the man did it. He was probably fed up about the rising criminality and decreasing police efforts.<span id='postcolor'>

There'd be less crime if there were more guns in more hands.

[Longinius 1]

"There'd be less crime if there were more guns in more hands."

Doubtful. Just look at America.

[FetishFool 0]

A nice anology to the the world's situation regarding the US is:

Consider the US as the car jacker. And the heroic man as any other world nation.

The car jacker won by shooting the unarmed man.

What if the man had a gun, too?

And what if the car jacker knew that there was a man with a gun near that car? Would he have approached the car in the first place?

Hypothetical situations are grand, aren't they.

[Longinius 1]

"The car jacker won by shooting the unarmed man.

What if the man had a gun, too?

And what if the car jacker knew that there was a man with a gun near that car? Would he have approached the car in the first place?"

Yes, and what then if another man with a gun came along and saw the hero shooting at a guy sitting in car? And he shot the hero? And then the cops come and shoot the guy that shot the hero that shot at the thief.

More guns on the street isnt a very good solution in it self. There is more to it than just letting people have guns.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ June 06 2002,10:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">More guns on the street isnt a very good solution in it self. There is more to it than just letting people have guns.<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree. The problem is simply people not dressing accordingly.

[foxer 0]

I think the guy is pretty dumb myself.If i see a bank robber/car jacking i'm not going go over there and try to stop him.As long as the guy hurts no one ,i'm not going do shit. If someone robs a bank,and hurts no one,I hope he gets away, why ? Because he needs money.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ June 06 2002,11:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If someone robs a bank,and hurts no one,I hope he gets away, why ? Because he needs money.<span id='postcolor'>

What if someone robs your house and hurts no one and he needs money?

[FetishFool 0]

If everyone has a gun, then why do you think that anyone would strike in the first place?

The first guy would get shot by the second guy, the second guy would get shot by the third guy, the third guy would get shot by the angry momma trying to get some sleep in her apartment across the street.

Then the angry mother will be in risk of getting shot by someone that thinks she's a sniper. And it goes and on and on.

End result: People think FIVE times before trying to commit a crime.

[Longinius 1]

"I think the guy is pretty dumb myself.If i see a bank robber/car jacking i'm not going go over there and try to stop him."

He didnt see the robbery of the postal office. He just saw a guy pull a woman and her kids from a car. That probably pissed him off some. Then again, since the people werent harmed he should have let the guy drive away. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

"As long as the guy hurts no one ,i'm not going do shit. If someone robs a bank,and hurts no one,I hope he gets away, why ? Because he needs money."

Someone is always hurt in a robbery. My mother works as a bankclerk and several of her friends have been robbed at one time or another in their career. It leaves scars. If not on the body, then on the mind.

[theavonlady 2]

That's why I'm gonna be the first one on my block to get a kevlar vest and helmet.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ June 06 2002,10:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ June 06 2002,11:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If someone robs a bank,and hurts no one,I hope he gets away, why ? Because he needs money.<span id='postcolor'>

What if someone robs your house and hurts no one and he needs money?<span id='postcolor'>

Not the same thing,bank money would be pay back,your money won't.But i wouldn't be to upset if i had insurance on the stuff,aslong he doesn't steal something important to me ,i wouldn't give a rats ass.

[Longinius 1]

"If everyone has a gun, then why do you think that anyone would strike in the first place?

The first guy would get shot by the second guy, the second guy would get shot by the third guy, the third guy would get shot by the angry momma trying to get some sleep in her apartment across the street.

Then the angry mother will be in risk of getting shot by someone that thinks she's a sniper. And it goes and on and on."

Well, its proven that guns do not work as deterent. Just like the death penalty does not prevent people from murdering. It isnt a solution.

[foxer 0]

Someone is always hurt in a robbery. My mother works as a bankclerk and several of her friends have been robbed at one time or another in their career. It leaves scars. If not on the body, then on the mind.

I don't know after the second or third time of getting robbed it wouldn't effect me anymore,but i guess that's just me.

I thought guns were banned in lots of european countries,How are they getting guns ? Why didn't they turn them in ?

[Longinius 1]

"I don't know after the second or third time of getting robbed it wouldn't effect me anymore,but i guess that's just me."

When someone pushes an AK in your face and orders you down on the floor while shouting and hitting people I reckon you are affected. Especially if you are just a regular person.

"I thought guns were banned in lots of european countries,How are they getting guns ? Why didn't they turn them in ?"

Like criminals ever had problems in getting guns. Sweden has a pretty solid weapon to citizen density. Hunting rifles, military Homeguard weapons, competition shooters, collectors, police, military storages and so on. An increasing amount of weapons have been smuggled in during recent times aswell, probably coming from the east with the increased immigration and organized crime.

[Stag 0]

As far as the gun thingmie goes:

"When catapults are outlawed only outlaws will have catapults." Longinius

As far as heroism goes, I suspect that the bus driver never even considered the risk to himself. By the time the damage was done, he would have been far beyond the "Feeling the fear, but saddling up anyway" stage. I doubt he had time for JohnWayneisms.

A very good man.

[Longinius 1]

"As far as the gun thingmie goes:

"When catapults are outlawed only outlaws will have catapults." Longinius"

I never said people should not have the right to own guns. I said that you shouldnt just let anyone have a gun. There has to be a bit more to it than that. There are many deaths every year related to accidents with firearms, caused by ignorance and stupidity and because people that shouldnt have weapons had them anyway.

[Stag 0]

Then perhaps the answer would be to teach gun handling in schools?

[Major Fubar 0]

Oh for fucks sake, does every thread like this have to devolve into a gun control debate?

With 2 sides: the "no one anywhere ever should own a gun for any purpose" side, and the "it should be compulsory for everyone over the age of 8 to carry a fully automatic firearm at all times to prevent crimes" side.

Both sides are stupid.