Manual startup procedure ?

[OMAC 254]

As I mentioned in my last post in the main preview thread, certain cockpit buttons are functional, apparently allowing for a manual startup procedure (MSP) in which one does not use the "Engines On (auto)" option in the menu. Is the MSP implemented yet? If so, I cannot get it to work.

What I think it is:

1) batteries on

2) starter on

3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option

4) starter off

5) then I want to "initiate warmup," but I don't know if that involves just waiting or what.

- How do I know when the warmup period is over? A gauge?

6) Use Q to slowly put thrust to max ?

I cannot get enough power using the above - even when thrust is at max, I only get about 1 meter off the ground. Usually I then roll over. Maybe I have to have thrust at max AND use analog throttle to get collective to max? I'm using keyboard/mouse only.

Any ideas?

Edited July 3, 2011 by OMAC

[NeMeSiS 11]

Without checking since i am not at home:

Barries on

Starter on

Throttle to idle

Throttle to full

Once the RPM is high enough (dont know how much, i just wait till ~5000) thrust to max, starter off and batteries off.

You can probably turn off the starter once the engine has started properly, though i am not really sure when that is. :p

[OMAC 254]

Thank you. I'll give that a shot.

------------------------------

OK, I got it. I was unaware of additional commands available on the stick. There's throttle to idle, throttle to max, and throttle off. Good to know.

Mouse over buttons and stick:

1) batteries on

2) starter on

3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option (on stick below starter)

4) starter off after ignition

5) batteries off (still have to test this)

6) wait until RPM stabilizes at around 70%.

7) throttle to max on stick

Optional:

8) Autotrim "on" - although it already is (BIS should fix this!!)

9) Autotrim off - now autotrim is really off

10) Thrust (Q) to max - liftoff

11) Left trim (X) to stabilize rightward rotation

12) Manual trim set

13) gain some altitude

14) Go, baby, go (W). Gain speed as quickly as possible.

Optional with future dream release: ;)

15) locate enemy

16) power on dual M134 miniguns

17) select armor piercing or incendiary ammo

18) initiate ammo feed system

19) arm weapons

20) destroy:

:681:

(just kidding - been playing too much A2/CO - my brain is warped)

Edited July 3, 2011 by OMAC

[max power 21]

He means throttle. Hold left alt look at the collective lever. The throttle is the rotating handle. You have a user action there to set it to off, idle, or full.

[OMAC 254]

Yes, MaxP, I just found that out and edited the above post. Thanks anyway. All is good now. By the time the real ToH comes out, I sure won't need a manual, that's for sure.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Hmm, for the most part I've found the batteries and starter completely useless. I figured I wasn't doing it right, but I still got the engine started with just the throttle and that's all I needed. :rolleyes:

[OMAC 254]

They worked fine for me.

--------------------------

On a real helo, how does one really do "throttle to idle"? Is it a switch, or does one rotate a handle or apply pressure to a lever on the left stick?

I am quite unsure as to the difference between "thrust" (Q/Z) and throttle. I know that the command for "analog" throttle is misnamed - should be collective. So, what does the real throttle do versus the "thrust" commands? Are they the same in real life?

Just trying to learn about helos and ToH. Until ToH preview, I didn't know JACK about helos (other than A2 CO helos), as I am sure my posts make abundantly clear.

Edited July 4, 2011 by OMAC

[Big Dawg KS 6]

They worked fine for me.

I'm sure they do; what I was trying to say is that I haven't found them to be needed. I'm not really sure what they're supposed to do though... since I've always been able to start the engine/rotors without them.

[Mr. Charles 22]

Maybe the engine will take damage, if you turn it on with just the throttle. This is after all, just a preview.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Hmm, for the most part I've found the batteries and starter completely useless. I figured I wasn't doing it right, but I still got the engine started with just the throttle and that's all I needed. :rolleyes:

This is something i believe without being able to check. First time i played i just guessed what i had to do and kept that procedure. Guess you can just take off anyway, maybe the real startup procedure hasnt been properly implemented yet.

[OMAC 254]

Do you mean that you can go right to Throttle to idle without using batteries and starter?

Or do you mean using Engine On (auto/debug)?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Do you mean that you can go right to Throttle to idle without using batteries and starter?

Yep. On another (perhaps related) note, I've also noticed that without touching anything the rotors sometimes spin very slowly even with everything off... not sure what that's about.

[OMAC 254]

Hmm. Maybe it's the wind? Or a bug? I don't know.

Edited July 4, 2011 by OMAC

[nightsta1ker 10]

I found it's close enough to being accurate, but there seems to be a few bugs. In a real turbine, you turn the battery switch on, hold the starter, watch the N1 (gas producer) rise to about 13% (this basically means the first set of fans in the engine are turning fast enough to provide the right amount of air and pressure to get a proper ignition) then you introduce fuel by cracking the throttle, If all goes well, the engine lights and you get that nice roar and watch your gauges climb. If temperature limits are not exceeded then the pilot realeases the starter at about 60% N1 and the engine is self sustaining from there.

I found in game that holding the starter alone will completely start the engine without the introduction of fuel.

[OMAC 254]

nightsta1ker,

As a real pilot, you will know:

Is "+/- thrust" (Q/Z keys) the same as manually applying throttle in a real helo?

I asked this before:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1972682&postcount=7

Edited July 4, 2011 by OMAC

[nightsta1ker 10]

nightsta1ker,

As a real pilot, you will know:

Is "+/- thrust" (Q/Z keys) the same as manually applying throttle in a real helo? In real life, is the throttle a lever on the left stick that you

I asked this before:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1972682&postcount=7

There are two controls that are related to rotor speed blade pitch angle (lift) and they are combined and need to be used together. The collective is the lever on the pilots left side. He controls the pitch of all of the blades simultaneously by raising or lowering this lever. The throttle is a twist grip on the collective. The pilot uses this to directly control Engine RPM and also Rotor RPM. However, due to aerodynamic forces such as coning due to lift, induced drag created by lift and coriolis effect that happens to the rotor system when the blades cone, the Rotor RPM fluctuates as the controls are manipulated. Almost all helicopters have a correlator which rolls throttle in the appropriate direction with up and down collective, however, it's not precise and the pilot needs to make small adjustments to keep the RPM in the green. In addition to the correlator, you may also have a governor which controls the RPMs for the pilot, reducing his workload.

For the turbine ship that is represented in Take On, the use of the throttle is really quite simple. It is used for the purposes of starting, shutting down, or idling the engine. The Governor takes care of the rest in normal flight.

There is no selectable axis for controlling the throttle that I have found, only the collective, which is all you REALLY need. However, it would be nice to be able to properly simulate starting and shutting down the ship. The throttle function in game currently has two positions, full throttle, and throttle idle. In reality there are three basic positions that concern the pilot, Full, Idle and OFF. On start, Fuel is initially off until the starter brings the N1 up to the right speed for start, then fuel is introduced by cracking the throttle to Idle. Then once the start sequence is finished and the engine is running independently the throttle is rolled on to full (or to wherever the governor takes it to give you 100% RRPM). On shutdown, the pilot brings the throttle to Idle for the allotted cool down time (usually 2 minutes) and then closes the throttle, cutting off fuel to the engine, which of course shuts it down.

It's SLIGHTLY more complicated than I am describing it, but I am trying to keep it simple so everyone understands the basic concepts. IMHO getting the CONCEPTS right is alot more important than getting all the DETAILS right. Details can come later, but they will not be easy to implement unless the basic concepts are understood. Make sense?

[OMAC 254]

nightsta1ker, you are the man. Thank you very much for the excellent info! :bounce3:

[nightsta1ker 10]

nightsta1ker, you are the man. Thank you very much for the excellent info! :bounce3:

:cool:

[OMAC 254]

OK, I got it. I was unaware of additional commands available on the stick. There's throttle to idle, throttle to max, and throttle off. Good to know.

However, as I wrote above in this thread, the throttle currently has 3 positions, including a "Throttle to Closed" function.

Edited July 4, 2011 by OMAC

[nightsta1ker 10]

Hmm... When I scroll my mouse over it I only see two. I will look it over more carefully. Thanks OMAC! Out of curiosity, does closing the throttle shut the engine down?

[OMAC 254]

Yes, I think so. Upon touchdown while holding "brake" (min collective), I select "Throttle to Idle" (perhaps not necessary), and then "Throttle to Closed." If you find out different, or know of another way to shut the engine off (other than "Engine off (auto)"), please let me know.

Edited July 4, 2011 by OMAC

[nightsta1ker 10]

Yes, I think so. Upon touchdown while holding "brake" (min collective), I select "Throttle to Idle" (perhaps not necessary), and then "Throttle to Closed." If you find out different, or know of another way to shut the engine off (other than "Engine off (auto)"), please let me know.

Right now I am frustratedly trying to upload my latest video to youtube with my dodgy internet connection (I pay for High Speed but I get intermittent garbage, perhaps my settings are not maximized or something. I have already had them come out to check the wires once and they supposedly found and fixed the problem.) When I get some time I will check it out and get back to you.

[OMAC 254]

Great. What ISP do you use? Is the new video the one with your mike connected so we can hear your commands and training of your recruit?

[Mr. Charles 22]

I always set the throttle to idle, when i landed, then to off. After this I engage the rotor break (behind you at the center frame).

[OMAC 254]

Ah ha! So there's an operable rotor brake? Cool.

Good find, Mr. Charles!

Edited July 4, 2011 by OMAC