infantry combat

[CameronMcDonald 146]

so how about we have a more detailed world. and one that includes foxholes. seriously, any realistic game needs foxholes or infantry all die really really fast.

Yeah, because foxholes are everywhere where infantry are. And you can dig a foxhole basically anywhere, after all, in about 3 seconds flat. Even through bitumen and/or rebarred concrete.

arma does NOT simulate infantry warfare better than MW2 single player, at least from an AI perspective. the MW2 ai kicks the shit out of the arma 2 ai when it comes to tactics and cover. (invincible player is different)

Holy apple and orange comparisons, Batman. Last time I checked, MW2 AI didn't operate outside of that miniscule corridor poorly named "the map." :756:

[Big Dawg KS 6]

which is why most games dont 1 or 2 huge maps

look, it doesnt work. the world is bland as hell.

If it doesn't work for you play something else (like RO), cause huge open terrains are a hallmark of the series.

---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------

arma does NOT simulate infantry warfare better than MW2 single player, at least from an AI perspective. the MW2 ai kicks the shit out of the arma 2 ai when it comes to tactics and cover. (invincible player is different)

But I would argue that MW2's AI is not a simulation, because it is heavily scripted and pre-planned. ArmA's AI is more simulated since it is adaptive (just place two opposing squads in any part of the world and they work at near 100% capability) go and not just following a detailed script.

[-Paladin- 10]

If it doesn't work for you play something else (like RO), cause huge open terrains are a hallmark of the series.

---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------

But I would argue that MW2's AI is not a simulation, because it is heavily scripted and pre-planned. ArmA's AI is more simulated since it is adaptive (just place two opposing squads in any part of the world and they work at near 100% capability) go and not just following a detailed script.

And how you call the WP? If in the Editor you place a guard WP the AI will attack the first enemy they see if in 10 meters or 1000 km away and do not let lose of him until dead. If you give a Move WP AI will move there to the bitter end if there 1000 enemy's or not they go stubborn.

If they encounter something Op for they know only one thing to do SHOOT.

That all what the Arma AI is doing following a script set by the player.

And if you don't give theme a WP they stand around and do nothing, sounds like the MW AI. If you don't trigger something nothing happens.

Sounds like every AI.

Sometimes I wish there where something like in Gothic RPG.

Sleeping, talking, siting around, eating and standing guard. And this not by Player or mission designer input.

Yeah, because foxholes are everywhere where infantry are. And you can dig a foxhole basically anywhere, after all, in about 3 seconds flat. Even through bitumen and/or rebarred concrete.

Holy apple and orange comparisons, Batman. Last time I checked, MW2 AI didn't operate outside of that miniscule corridor poorly named "the map." :756:

Not in 3 seconds but yes basically anywhere you dig a foxhole not every time you take a hold. 20 up 30 cm in prone position you do.

You do have cover, you don't get spotted so fast and you are much harder to hit, only thing thats looking toward´s your foe is a gun and helmet and a small part of your face.

Not like being prone on flat ground where you neck and whole face and hands are visible and you are a wonderful target.

You dig cover to stay alive and not to get wounded. <----Tactical thinking!

For harder material there is the engineer or pioneer corps they have the big toys. but this is out of scope and just digging a little hole in soft terrain dose not hurt one.

Holy apple and orange comparisons, Batman. Last time I checked, Arma AI didn't operate outside of that miniscule corridor poorly named "the map."

MW "map" is 50x50 meters corridor

Arma2 "map" is 15x15 Km corridor

Not to forget that Arma AI is morphing throe walls.

Did never notice in MW morphing AI throe walls.

Just put a AI in a chopper and two WP both 20 km away and push both with the chopper out of the map, you will see No reaction chopper not coming to you.

your point is?

Of a dumb AI? Yes. With the game being quite corridorish and all

Also there are firefights in ArmA.

Firefights != hollywoodish crap where soldiers just fire bullets into nothingness not hitting each other from 5 meters.

Soldiers do aim at each other in ArmA and without any cover killing the enemy is not a problem.

Oh man. You are a master of comedy

OFP:DR did the cover system bather (Rocks,walls,buildings infantry using buildings and shouting out of windows) than arma (there is only corner shoots).

before writing this you shooed at least try to understand where the diference lies in OFP:DR and ARMA instead of fantrolish bashing around.

Mimimimi³ OFP so bad now I am so cowl i did bash OFP all <3 me.OFP:DR did even the fire team bounding and over watch what arma is since 10 year unable to do.

both arma and OFP have problems but a game "OFP:DR" doing the Infantry combat better than "Arma" that claims to be a military simulation this is WEAK by BI.

IF you have ARMA2 and OFP:DR take the editor and place one marine squat and watch how the engage enemy's.

Give a Marine usnit the order in OFP:DR to enter a bulding and watch what they do.

Do it in Arma and you get fucking nuts!

There are bright moments in both but much darker moments of AI fail in ARMA.

Not to forget that suppressing in OFP:DR dose have a effect and the AI is doing it.In ARMA the AI still cant find the handegrande and underbarrellaunchers or even knows for what a Squat automatic weapon is.

But hey we have corner shoots and the AI is sending two ppl against 10 or more of enemy AI for flanking thats better thats uber cool miltary simulation style. -.-

the one thing i really want to see is an improvement on infantry. currently, 2 squads see each other in a coverless world, go prone, and blast away. feels bland man

I really would love to see something like this but this is against the new directive of BI and kids would rant thats its boring and they wont so fucking hard to sniper and and have s3zial forc3s action.

Because the only thing sp3zial fors3s are doing is running around in cool dresses and pawning the stereotype terrorists/eveil soilder. in Epic close combat. With choperz landing in hotzones direct in the heart of battel.

being “Privet Dies a lot†is not cool.

Or Sargent “decides a bit†nether

Chuck Norris M.I.A with M60 and javlins thermal sniper railgunz is more real and fun.

Followz me to v1t0ryz frontal assault style.

Be SP3Z1AL

[maturin 12]

mg and some rifles suppress while more rifles flank

You mean what they already do?

I will see units retreat, rout, getting supressed and surrender..

Which they already do.

In ARMA the AI still cant find the handegrande and underbarrellaunchers

Which they already do.

There's constructive criticism and then there's bitching. It takes some care to ensure that people don't think you're doing one while you're doing the other. And all the fucking hyperbole and spazzing doesn't help.

Edited May 21, 2011 by maturin

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

load up OA and put 2 squads on opposite sides of a small town, theyre gonna wander into each other and either prone rape each other or just stand there and take pot shots

theres plenty of cover in my neighborhood if it became a warzone. the streets of arma 2 are so featureless. and THE AI DOES NOT USE COVER

i bring up foxholes because they are the standard entrenchment piece for a modern army. any fortified position is either gonna have foxholes or trenchlines. no one is gonna *just* stack sandbags. too vulnerable to suppression and artillery and armor

Edited May 21, 2011 by THEBLITZ6794

[STALKERGB 6]

OFPR did even the fire team bounding and over watch what arma is since 10 year unable to do.

I'm pretty sure when your units are in "danger" mode they will take it in turns to move forward covering each other as they go.

[Steakslim 1]

I can confirm that. Watched them do that the other day looking for me.

[Militant1006 11]

Yeah, they do for me, usually the complexity of your AI depends on the complexity of your orders.

[maturin 12]

load up OA and put 2 squads on opposite sides of a small town, theyre gonna wander into each other and either prone rape each other or just stand there and take pot shots

I see them stacking up on houses and peaking around corners, flanking constantly.

and THE AI DOES NOT USE COVER

NO, THEY REALLY FUCKING DO. SEE HOW ANNOYING SPASTIC CAPSLOCK POSTS ARE? NOW IMAGINE HOW ANNOYING THEY ARE WHEN THEY ARE FULL OF BULLSHIT AND FACTUAL INACCURACIES.

i bring up foxholes because they are the standard entrenchment piece for a modern army. any fortified position is either gonna have foxholes or trenchlines. no one is gonna *just* stack sandbags. too vulnerable to suppression and artillery and armor

Think about how that would actually work in-game. You would just have infantry standing in place, helplessly waiting be shot. Someone would just crawl into a good position and shoot them with a sniper rifle. It would be like a turret sunken into the ground. Players would be blinded by the grass around it, the AI would see through the grass.

Does anyone use foxholes in Afghanistan? Did they use them in South Ossetia or Libya? The essence of modern war is maneuver. Foxholes would do nothing to solve any of your complaints, because you wouldn't have a firefight, you would have an ever more boring, suicidal assault. You can't teach AI to carefully pick apart a defensive line in an open world. You just can't.

[thedudeabides 40]

We dig fighting positions, not really foxholes. Some sector stakes and some room for your ruck by your feet and your home sweet home in an Alpha Alpha for the night. Now if you stay in a perimeter for longer than 24 hours or so (METT-T dependent) you begin to improve your positions by adding overhead cover and digging grenade holes in the position.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/21-75/Ch2.htm

Edited May 22, 2011 by TheDudeAbides

[maturin 12]

We could make all that now with static defenses. Building up instead of down won't be any easier to see in this game.

[-Paladin- 10]

I'm pretty sure when your units are in "danger" mode they will take it in turns to move forward covering each other as they go.

Yes in buddy teams 2 men(no Standard/I think SpecOps style) but not in fire-teams of 4 man(NATO/US Standard/what Army's out there that adopted it or even crafted this style).

the two men is OK if you play only SpecOps 4-5 man in a team but as regular and the AI in charge with 15+ units in your team its a pain in the ass.

The arma bound is like every 5-10 meters a stop and go.

Or like monkeys from three to three if you are in the woods. xD

There are good thing´s and bad ones in both.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Not in 3 seconds but yes basically anywhere you dig a foxhole not every time you take a hold. 20 up 30 cm in prone position you do.

You do have cover, you don't get spotted so fast and you are much harder to hit, only thing thats looking toward´s your foe is a gun and helmet and a small part of your face.

Foxhole =/= shell scrape.