Japan hit by 9.0-magnitude earthquake and tsunami

[Zipper5 74]

I made a little video of my own over the last few days to hopefully further inform people about the situation in Japan, and to encourage them to help out in any way you can. I can only hope that it does some good. :)

t8qgGQ8N07I

[walker 0]

Hi STALKERGB

Yes it may be outdated but is what has happened and indeed happens with all these type of reactors round the world including in the US.

So while in theory Chernobyl safety was worse; in practice western safety measures are just as bad if not worse.

Consider we are told that the used fuel rods for all these reactors including the MOX reactor; which is a plutonium reactor, were stored in open pools. For reasons of efficiency and ease of access according to one expert who quit because of the poor safety record of this type of GE reactor.

Worse in the case of reactor 4 which was shut down the pool was also full of the core fuel as well as the spent fuel rods. Oh and by the way spent fuel rods are full of really nasty shit. Including very short half life and thus highly radioactive transuranics and nasty isotopes. While in this state spent fuel rods are more dangerous than fresh fuel rods.

Three Elephants in the Room

Either way in actual fact there are Three Elephants in the Room

1. Spent fuel rods were stored above the exploding reactors. The explosions were upwards. I think you can work the rest out your self.
   
2. The MOX reactor is a plutonium reactor and despite being a so called modern reactor also used the "out-dated method for storing fuel rods." That was the second reactor that blew you may have noticed the large amount of debris in that explosion falling back to earth.
   
3. In the case of reactor 4 we have a full load of unspent fuel mixed with spent fuel from both it and the other reactors. It has been exposed to the air and the rods have started to melt and burn. It dwarfs the amount of radioactives at Chernobyl by several tons.
   Addendum the Fouth Elephant
   
4. There are six reactors now in trouble
   

Tokyo has run out of Boron and is being sent extra supplies from around the world.

http://www.koreaherald.com/business/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20110316000734

The latest aerial pictures show how bad the devastation is:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/16/japan-nuclear-fire-fuel-pools-radiation

***BREAKING NEWS***

Latest reports say the Nuclear Workers were again forced out of the site by ever increasing radiation levels.

http://www.streetinsider.com/General+News/Japan+Forced+to+Suspend+Efforts+to+Prevent+Nuclear+Meltdown/6370456.html

Japanese Emperor goes on TV to rally the nation.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/123336/20110316/japan.htm

walker

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------

***BREAKING NEWS***

Staff pulled out as fears grow that Reactor 4, yes the one that was shut down and unfueled but the fuel was all dumped in a tank all together with all the old fuel rods nice and cosy, is about to go Critical

http://www.ifandp.com/article/0010359.html

Walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker

[SteveJA 12]

While its a bad situation and my heart goes out to those affected, i still find this absurdly fascinating.

Thanks for keeping us updated Walker!

keep at it!

[walker 0]

Hi all

The fears that "The possibility of re-criticality is not zero," in the fuel pool at reactor No. 4 are what is causing the most current concern.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/16/fukushima-workers-evacuate-radiation-spikes

Esentialy we are talking about an un moderated pool of nuclear lava forming and doing a China Sydrome down through floor of the reactor bulding.

The roof of reactor No. 4 has cracked open

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLJE7ED00A20110315

And the Japanese Army is sending in water cannons.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/desperate_japan_to_use_water_cannon_wEUW3dMA3OhWqW6DWNU8YJ

And as the fears rise of a meltdown at the Plutonium fuelled Reactor No. 3

http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2011/03/11/17576061.html

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/idINIndia-55628320110316

And as Reactors No. 5 and No.6 are now suffering cooling problems

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/world/fukushima-disaster-france-alarmed-over-fuel-rod-pools-540

Walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker

[STALKERGB 6]

So while in theory Chernobyl safety was worse; in practice western safety measures are just as bad if not worse.

Chernobyl didn't even have a containment in case of an accident, it wasn't even designed to have one. Regardless of any errors in western reactors, nothing lowers them to them poor safety levels observed at Chernobyl.

The MOX reactor is a plutonium reactor and despite being a so called modern reactor also used the "out-dated method for storing fuel rods." That was the second reactor that blew you may have noticed the large amount of debris in that explosion falling back to earth.

Unit 4 is a Boiling Water Reactor as you no doubt know, the BWR-4 reactor was first operational (at this facility) in the 70's. Hardly modern.

[W0lle 1051]

Nice video mate.

Looks like things are much worse than I initially thought. :(

But other than Walker I don't monitor the news sites 24/7. :D

Can we please refrain from comparing Fukushima with Chernobyl? It's enough already that I must read and see such remarks from 'experts' at other places every day.

It was a completely different reactor type with graphite being used which spread all over the place once the reactor gone up.

I'm not saying the effects are less harmful but comparing Fukushima with Chernobyl is like you compare DR with OA. :)

Changed thread title btw

Edited March 16, 2011 by W0lle

[walker 0]

Hi all

Thanks for changing title W0lle, I did not want to start a new thread and I kept thinking I had to add in some things about the US to keep it on topic. :D

Apparently Japan and some other countries were warned by the IAEA in December 2008 that their nuclear facilities were not able to survive earthquakes of expected levels.

Sorry can not give source, try Google.

Walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker

[Daniel 0]

It was part of a BBC news feed.

I think there's every reason to compare this to Chernobyl, when else has there been a nuclear disaster on this scale? The systems in question might differ but the regional panic and the sacrifice of the workers are all too similar.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Daniel

[walker 0]

Hi all

US News Crew found to be radioactive.

http://www.businessinsider.com/lester-holt--nbc-news-japan-2011-3

The geiger counter/dosimeter squeals, the radiation tech jumps back and pulls back his hand and the geiger counter and the journalists says:

"Is that a good thing or a bad thing?"

The tech pauses gives him a hard stare and says:

"That is a bad thing."

Walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker

[Big Mac 19]

Can we please refrain from comparing Fukushima with Chernobyl? It's enough already that I must read and see such remarks from 'experts' at other places every day.

It was a completely different reactor type with graphite being used which spread all over the place once the reactor gone up.

I'm not saying the effects are less harmful but comparing Fukushima with Chernobyl is like you compare DR with OA.

If you don't like it then don't read it. No one is violating any forum rules by making comparisons here...jeez.. Edited March 16, 2011 by Big Mac

[walker 0]

Hi all

A Time article asks whether the Fukushima disaster is spiraling out of control?

http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/03/16/from-bad-to-worse-are-the-problems-at-the-fukushima-nuclear-plant-spiralling-out-of-control/

While the normally reticent IAEA Chief warns of a "Serious Situation" at the plant.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03-16/iaea-chief-warns-of-serious-situation-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html

And experts are calling the recent increase in radiation Alarming along with reports that the No.2 Reactor vessel is split open and pouring out radioactive steam. Some are openly saying that at least one and possibly three of the sites are headed to meltdown.

High altitude photographs show multiple fires. Which makes me wonder how far any fuel rods in the pools in the tops of the reactors may have been spread in the explosions. Tomorrow the US intends to fly a drone over the plant to do an assessment.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2011/03/16/97001-20110316FILWWW00636-un-drone-us-va-inspecter-fukushima.php

Uncontained fuel pools at risk of going critical

Emphasising, the risk of these uncontained fuel pools going critical, Robert Kelly who used to lead the Nuclear Emergency Response at Los Alamos National Laboratory is warning as are many others, that the uncontained fuel pools are the most dangerous aspect of the Fukushima Disaster.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-16/pools-storing-spent-fuel-may-present-biggest-risk-at-fukushima.html

walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker

[noubernou 77]

If you don't like it then don't read it. No one is violating any forum rules by making comparisons here...jeez..

No, but you are violating your own self-respect or perceived intelligence when doing so.

I think all he was saying is that its a bad comparison. Which it is.

[Big Mac 19]

No, but you are violating your own self-respect or perceived intelligence when doing so.

I think all he was saying is that its a bad comparison. Which it is.

Riiiight....

[noubernou 77]

Riiiight....

Explain to me, in technical detail, how the situation at Fukushima #1 is like the situation at Chernobyl then.

[Big Mac 19]

Explain to me, in technical detail, how the situation at Fukushima #1 is like the situation at Chernobyl then.

You obviously think I give a shit whether it is or isn't, I don't. What I give a shit about is someone saying that people should stop making comparisons just because they don't want to hear/read them. I say in response don't read them. Run along now little one..

[Daniel 0]

Explain to me, in technical detail, how the situation at Fukushima #1 is like the situation at Chernobyl then.

1. It is a nuclear disaster of unprecedented scale.

2. Radioactive material is being released into the atmosphere.

3. There is widespread fear and panic regarding radiation.

4. Staff on site are being exposed to dangerous levels of radiation to bring the situation under control.

There does not have to be identical circumstances to be comparable, at least not in my mind.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Daniel

[noubernou 77]

You obviously think I give a shit whether it is or isn't, I don't. What I give a shit about is someone saying that people should stop making comparisons just because they don't want to hear/read them. I say in response don't read them. Run along now little one..

So people should just blabber on with misinformation and scare mongering? LOL Ok, you keep doing that, being unproductive and not helpful.

---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------

1. It is a nuclear disaster of unprecedented scale.

2. Radioactive material is being released into the atmosphere.

3. There is widespread fear and panic regarding radiation.

4. Staff on site are being exposed to dangerous levels of radiation to bring the situation under control.

There does not have to be identical circumstances to be comparable, at least not in my mind.

1. Its not of unprecedented scale, its still not even close to the scale of the disaster at Chernobyl.

2. Yes, there is, but again, not even close to the amount or scale of the release at Chernobyl.

3. In the west, where it doesn't even matter. Everyone I am talking to in Japan says that its relatively calm.

4. At Chernobyl the on site staff were killed in the explosion and in the massive radiation release right afterwards, most were dead within 16 hours. If the staff at Fukushima #1 are still there 5 days after the issue began then you can see that this disaster is not even close to being on the same level as Chernobyl.

You have to remember that even at Chernobyl the site operated until 1999 using the other remaining reactors. While what is happening at Fukushima #1 is not good, at all, its not an all hopeless situation. The reactors are shut down, the containment structures are much more sturdy than they were at Chernobyl (where they had basically none), and the current heat is from residual radioactive elements in the core cooling down. Even if it fully melts down, the thing won't explode, and the base of the reactor is meant to spread the molten fuel out into a non-critical configuration, where it will continue to cool, and even be cooled faster since it is no longer inside the pressure vessel that is presenting the problems of getting sea-water inside of it.

Also even if failed on a scale of Chernobyl, the winds most blow across the Pacific ocean, where unlike when they blew across Northern Europe, not many people (read almost NONE) live. Also the weather systems in the Pacific would cycle most active contaminants back through rain systems before reaching the west coast, especially the very dangerous, heavier elements. They would fall harmlessly into the ocean. The amount of new radiation reaching populated areas in north America would be hardly above background levels, and not a threat to human health.

[Daniel 0]

I agree, it's not on a par. But to be pedantic, you have literally just compared it. I don't see the harm in comparing what facts we know.

I'm not about to suggest it's on a similar scale. My point is that what else is there to compare it to? It's natural that people will compare it to the worst nuclear disaster to date.

Also according to World Nuclear News there is already one death on site attributable to an explosion.

Apparently there are now fears at TEPCO that exposed rods will reach criticality. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12762608

And it's been suggested that unsafe practices may be at fault. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/us-chernobyl-clean-up-expert-slams-japan-idUSTRE72E7AL20110315

It's not sounding all that harmless to me.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Daniel

[st_dux 26]

People always overreact whenever anything happens to a nuclear power plant. It's a shame, because this will probably set us back in nuclear technology needlessly. Ignorance breeds fear.

[ProfTournesol 956]

People always overreact whenever anything happens to a nuclear power plant. It's a shame, because this will probably set us back in nuclear technology needlessly. Ignorance breeds ignorance.

Mmm...if i were living in Japan, i think i would overreact too. And obviously what seperates a level 6 nuclear threat like it's now from a level 7 like it was in Tchernobyl is going thinner and thinner hour after hour.

[Big Mac 19]

So people should just blabber on with misinformation and scare mongering? LOL Ok, you keep doing that, being unproductive and not helpful.

It's called sharing opinions. The world is full of them, if you can't handle that little detail of life you should just take a nose dive off a skyscraper.

[noubernou 77]

It's called sharing opinions. The world is full of them, if you can't handle that little detail of life you should just take a nose dive off a skyscraper.

Sorry to burst what your kindergarten teacher told you, but some peoples opinions are stupid and not productive and not helpful.

Also, how is it an opinion, why would you have an OPINION on something like this!? Its not an opinion, but an observation or an argument against something factual or present. Your opinion can be wrong.

I am perfectly fine accepting other peoples opinion of things, like if someone doesn't like pizza, or bunnies, or snow, thats fine, that doesn't effect anyone else, its not even something you can argue about, but when your opinion is "this is as bad as Chernobyl" its no longer an opinion, but a statement about a situation that has quantifiable facts that will make your opinion invalid and wrong.

[Big Mac 19]

Sorry to burst what your kindergarten teacher told you, but some peoples opinions are stupid and not productive and not helpful.

Also, how is it an opinion, why would you have an OPINION on something like this!? Its not an opinion, but an observation or an argument against something factual or present. Your opinion can be wrong.

I am perfectly fine accepting other peoples opinion of things, like if someone doesn't like pizza, or bunnies, or snow, thats fine, that doesn't effect anyone else, its not even something you can argue about, but when your opinion is "this is as bad as Chernobyl" its no longer an opinion, but a statement about a situation that has quantifiable facts that will make your opinion invalid and wrong.

So by your logic a person's opinion that does not conform to your's is stupid and wrong? I don't think so. That's called being opinionated and arrogant. I personally think your opinion on the subject of opinions are stupid, non-productive, and generally full of shit, but I'm a more mature person than you and I leave you to your bullshit opinions about opinions.

Here's an opinion and an observation of mine. For the longest time I thought ACRE was a piece of shit that worked only when the planets were in perfect alignment. My opinion/observation has now changed but that is beside the point. That's a bit OT yes, but since we're on the subject of opinions and observations it fits the bill. So instead of being a opinionated arrogant prick how about you respect that not everyone is as stupid as you and try to learn something not only about this tragedy, but about life in general.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Big Mac

[noubernou 77]

So by your logic a person's opinion that does not conform to your's is stupid and wrong? I don't think so. That's called being opinionated and arrogant.

No, having an opinion that negates/ignores fact is called being opinionated and arrogant.

You are opinionated and arrogant Big Mac.

[Big Mac 19]

No, having an opinion that negates/ignores fact is called being opinionated and arrogant.

You are opinionated and arrogant Big Mac.

HAHAHA I'm opinionated and arrogant? I'm the one telling you that not everyone shares the same opinions and if you can't handle that then you're better off someplace else and you're calling me opinionated and arrogant? You're an idiot... Also how can I be opinionated or arrogant when I have already said I have no opinion either way? From my point of view it's not my problem unless the fallout affect the US, which is about as non - opinionated as you can be. Granted in some respects it might be considered arrogant, but hey no one is perfect. Edited March 16, 2011 by Big Mac