No distant muzzle flashes in OA?

[maturin 12]

A while ago I tried to do some night-fighting the fun way (without NVGs, in the blackest part of the night). However, it was all ruined by the fact that one the AI are more than 200m or so meters away, they become invisible because the game abruptly stops drawing muzzle flashes.

They fire their weapons, and at close range it illuminates a small portion of ground (a very loud flashlight, almost), at mid range you get bright spots of light, and then, no light at all. It's like they all get suppressors at a certain distance and it's totally unfair for the player.

Now, all lights have a draw distance. Fire some HE cannon rounds on the Utes runway and you'll see what I mean. Eventually the game stops drawing the illumination effect.

For explosions and searchlights, the draw distance is very far. Streetlights can be seen from a decent distance as well. Campfires and certain burning vehicles cannot, but that's not such a big deal.

But muzzle flashes, the one critically important light source in the game, have the shortest cutout distance of all!

I'm going to make a ticket requesting that muzzle flashes be visible at distances of at least 600m and gradually get dimmer, but I wanted to make sure other people experience this as well. And if anyone has time, so testing to find the exact ranges would be nice.

PS. Every map has a short part of the night that is truly, totally dark. This varies depending on the map's real world location and the season. It may be as late as 3 am or as early as 9 pm.

[sakura_chan 9]

Basically what happens is that Arma can't handle multiple light sources very well, so small lights are always cut off to give priority to larger sources. Its kinda like "delete the small light so the streetlights don't turn off every time someone fires a shot". I don't know the limit, but it seems really low, like less than 8 lights.

[metalcraze 290]

Normally no more than 8 light sources is the hardware limitation of videocards - although the usage of shaders seems to change/overcome that. Can't really tell why it's so different in ArmA2

[flattermann 12]

"If you see the flash, it's already too late"

[killakaze 10]

Not if your on point flattermann

[flattermann 12]

:D Hands down that's true.

For the topic, i think the muzzle flash in real life is nothing more than a short gas flame briefly popping up, dunno how to say that in proper English. It occurs for fractures of a second... I've never been to a gunfight, let alone at night. I don't know how much Candela an AK-47 shot in more or less complete darkness actually produces, depending on other lightsources, e.g. the Moon, and to what extend the Human eye is capable of percepting it. Maybe we are simply spoiled by other games where the muzzle flash is usually as bright as that of an AA cannon from WWII.

I think a soldier at night will spot an enemy smoking a cigarette within a distance of 4 klicks - easily. If you ask him if he spotted a muzzle flash after someone fired a gun 2 klicks away - no sir

Edited January 15, 2011 by Flattermann
typoooos

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

I think a soldier at night will spot an enemy smoking a cigarette within a distance of 4 klicks - easily. If you ask him if he spotted a muzzle flash after someone fired a gun 2 klicks away - no sir

I can attest to this. Short, bright bursts of light lose their power on the eye over distance quite dramatically. This is why ATC towers and lighthouses use a rotating light rather than a strobing light. You will however see the light reflected on the surroundings of the flash. This means you wont be able to pinpoint the exact position of the flash, in this case the shooter. Because of this, marksmen do not use suppressors unless in a covert op. If an enemy sees a muzzle flash from a marksmen in hiding he'll see the surrounding area light up then hear the shot, but will still be unable to determine the shooters position. Suppressors would only decrease muzzle velocity, not gaining anything but a quieter shot. Either way, you're going to get scouted.

EDIT: Oh and due to aforementioned engine limitations you still will not be able to see the surrounding light of the flash. If there is no flash (light source), then there can't be surrounding light.

Edited January 15, 2011 by JuggernautOfWar

[maturin 12]

The engine definitely has the capability to draw lights at great distances; I just tested this.

I guess the question is whether it should. We need to establish whether there is hard cutoff for distant muzzle flashes (the light sprite at the end of the barrel, not the illuminating circle of light), or whether it gets gradually dimmer, and what the distances actually are.

Does anyone have any insight on the real-life situation? Should a nighttime muzzle flash be clearly visible at 200m?

[sakura_chan 9]

Another possibility is that the lower LODs of the weapon models don't have the muzzle flash in them. Even if the light doesn't show up, you should still see the 3d model of the muzzle flash lighting up.

[mchide 0]

All weapons have muzzle flashes in all view lods. If soldier distance is 200m + how many pixles do you think his muzzle flash have?! Think on this.

[maturin 12]

All weapons have muzzle flashes in all view lods. If soldier distance is 200m + how many pixles do you think his muzzle flash have?! Think on this.

The graphics engine wildly exaggerates the volume of muzzle smoke for just this reason. Get out to 200m and an M16 gives off more smoke than a Napoleonic musket. Accordingly, an RPG exploding half a battlefield away is a larger blast than when it is right next to you.

This effect is unrealistic, but would not be as bad if applied to muzzle flashes, as lights at distance do have the optical illusion of being larger than they really are.