JTD Mines 05a public beta

[TRexian 0]

Oh, indeed - that's part of 'how I want it to work.' :) I am generally all for allowing flexibility mission makers. My idea of a 'good addon' is one that is simple to start using, but allows more flexibility, with a corresponding increase in complexity. :)

What I have in mind for the civ-killing is to have it register in a global variable that can be accessed by missionmakers for whatever purposes they want.

[Muecke 114]

Any new status so far ?

:rolleyes:

[TRexian 0]

Yes, but not good news. :)

I have a basic functionality worked out, and it seems to work very well in SP. Over the weekend, I tried to expand the functionality to really get to the same place ver. 05a was at (tripwires for the claymores, and an ability to 'arm' boundings with a trigger, and a couple other things). Unfortunately, I was not focused enough, and the result is a tangled mess of code that breaks more whenever I try to fix something. :)

So, I'm going to revert back to the basic, and try again. The good news is that I have a better idea what to focus on.

Ahh... the perils of being a poor c0d3r..... :)

[TRexian 0]

Ok.

This is not ready for 'prime time' at this point, so I'd ask that the wonderfully gracious mirror sites not re-host this version (news is fine, though). :) Here is a link to the dev version of the new implementation:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/gyw34pz4f3yd753/JTD_Mines_devC_1105.7z

It should have all the functionality of the original, plus a bit more.

I can post some readmes, but here are the highlights of the changes:

- detonate all active; for player-placed mines, you can take the safeties off of some of them, and select the 'Detonate All Active' (separate for boundings and claymores) and only detonate those with the safeties off;

- arm bounding; if you set a bounding, then safety-off, you can arm it so it basically works like a tripwire - there will be a 3m radius trigger around the bounding.

Very interested in any feedback.

[KeyCat 131]

Thank you TRex, will give it a spin this weekend.

IMO, this is one of the things really missing in this serie and I really can't figure out why since mines can be a valuable tactical tool. Could it be that people think it is to teadious to place/use in PvsP games to have any real effect?

/KC

[TRexian 0]

Well, I think there are a couple reasons:

1) Realism - most 'Western' militaries are using MUCH fewer anti-personnel mines. They are just too dangerous, long term, for civilians. I don't think most infantry units have access to them. (Yeah, I know most infantry don't have access to the .50 sniper rifle, either.) :)

2) As you note, they can be a REAL game-changer in PvP situations - which is actually similar to real world. :)

And really, my implementation could be improved with some sort of UI. That's kinda on my long-term list with this.

[Muecke 114]

Hey TRexian, i´ve tryed it out in editor.

I´ve placed all of them but they all were armed even if i set them to disarmed.

If a disarm one shouldn´t I be able to take them and shouldn´t they get off out of the ground ?

The Claymore should have more damage imo as i can drive over it with a M1A1 and still can keep on driving with a litle damage on my tracks.

lookin further to any update...

[KeyCat 131]

Regarding realism. Neither is healing in 5 seconds at a medic tent :)

Lot's of things are not realistic in this (and other sims) and personally I prefer a realistic approach but good/fun gameplay over "realism in absurdum" - I'm happy to skip the weapons cleaning after I fired some rounds and do not miss polishing my boots to my Captains standard!

And really, my implementation could be improved with some sort of UI. That's kinda on my long-term list with this.

I've toyed around with some script ideas similar to mine and obstacle deployment in Men of War, nothing advanced but maybe usefull?

The Claymore should have more damage imo as i can drive over it with a M1A1 and still can keep on driving with a litle damage on my tracks.

I'm no mine expert but not damaging a tank sounds correct since Claymore's are Antipersonel Mines ;)

/KC

Edited November 9, 2010 by KeyCat

[TRexian 0]

Thanks, guys for your interest! :)

@ Muecke

Editor-placed mines are automatically armed with a tripwire, straight ahead for claymores and a 3m radius for boundings. You can disarm the claymores, but you can only pick them up if the class of unit you are using allows for it. Any class can try to disarm them, if the class doesn't have ability, there's a greater chance of an accidental explosion. **boom**

May I ask why you are setting them in the editor to be disarmed? I could probably figure out a way to have them disarmed to start from the editor, but honestly the idea never occurred too me!

Also, yeah, I've tried to balance the damage. I've tried to make it a effective against soft vehicles like UAZs and unarmored Humvees. It really shouldn't produce much damage against real armor, as IRL the claymores basically kill by shrapnel. The boundings shouldn't be particularly effective against vehicles at all.

@ KeyCat

I'm open to any ideas! :) I have in my head an idea for a basic UI, but the biggest problem I have is time! Not enough hours in the day for everything.

[Muecke 114]

I'm no mine expert but not damaging a tank sounds correct since Claymore's are Antipersonel Mines ;)

Sorry iam a nonexpert too. I just thought that the Claymore is vs Tanks.

I just found that the Mines in vanilla A2OA are not effectiv enough....

[mcnools 62]

I have a bit of a problem with the claymores. When placing them and arming them ingame (taking them from the crate) they don't explode properly, they do explode when I detonate them, but with hardly any sound, and they don't do any damage at all. Have I missed something I need to do in order to get them to work? The other type of mine works fine.

Also, I don't really understand the direction-setting using the claymore, when I try to move it with the wsad-keys the claymore just seems to move away from the camera. :/

[TRexian 0]

Hm... ok. Are you using the latest version? That sounds somewhat like an issue that was reported in an earlier beta. (The easiest way to tell if you have the latest version is to set 2 (or more) mines, and see if you have a 'Detonate live....' action available.)

I did not update the original post (although I will now). :)

In terms of the direction-setting, what terrain are you using? I have noticed, sometimes, if setting it on steep terrain, using the 'sight-in' addaction has some VERY strange results. I may be able to do something to adjust the camera location, but I think there will always be an issue sighting in the mine on steep terrain.

Thanks for the feedback!

[mcnools 62]

I'm using 05a, I'll get the latest one and see if the problem is still there, will check that directional setting aswell, I only tried it on a quite flat road in Takistan. I'll be back after the testing!

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

Okay, the mines explode correctly with the new version, however, the sighting still works strange. And I can't seem to get the tripwire working either.

When using sighting, I the sighting-view, and using wsad, the claymore sometimes movesaround a bit, on pretty much flat terrain, not sure why, it seems to work fine most of the time now.

However, the mine doesn't seem to detonate when I (or anyone else) enters the sighted area. :/ Not sure why.

Tripwires don't seem to work either, not sure if I'm doing it correctly or not, but I can't see any wire, and it doesn't detonate when someone runs over where the tripwire should be if it's invisible.

The bounding mines work though, but they seem to be a bit... slow, even when they're armed it takes about a second or two for them to explode when your'e close, so you can actually sprint over them (maybe that's intentional though?) and the smoke seem to come before the explosion.

Edited November 12, 2010 by McNools

[TRexian 0]

Ok. :)

With regard to the sighting, the mine should rotate W-tilt up, S-tilt down, A/D- left/right. Let me know if you continue to have issues with it.

The 'tripwire' does not show an actual wire, it just creates a trigger. Also, there is a limit to how far the tripwire will extend. I have limited it to 15m, but am willing to change that if it isn't enough. Also, there have been times where a vehicle going very fast might not set it off, if it passes through the trigger area too quickly.

Now, is this in MP? I am VERY interested in MP feedback.

If it is SP, try walking closer to the mine? By default, when you place a mine, it is only command-detonation. Unless you set the tripwire, the only way to set it off is by using the addaction to detonate it.

If you want to get ambitious :) in the init field of a unit, put JTD_debug = true and check out the rpt. It should generate some mine information.

[mcnools 62]

It's seems that the claymore just don't want to blow up, doesn't matter if I use sighting or tripwire, they just don't activate, I even tried starting a tripwire and just dragged it out probably 30 metres without a detonation.

and this is in SP. I wonder why I'm the only one having it.

Do I need to place some sort of module or gamelogic for the mines to work properly?

Where is the rpt for the JTD_debug saved?

[TRexian 0]

It is in the normal arma2 or armaOA .rpt. Depends on your OS where it is.

Did you hit the addaction for "end tripwire"? The tripwire isn't 'set' until you hit the end tripwire action.

And, does it work with command detonation? That is, set the mine, safety-off action, then detonate action?

[mcnools 62]

Yeah, I hit "end tripwire", still didn't work. :/

Detonation works though,

here's the last lines from my RPT:

[2088,40.9207,"0:01:14.635","0:00:00.000","x\cba\addons\common\init.sqf",":",4,"MISSINIT: missionName=DEBUG, worldName=Desert_E, isMultiplayer=false, isServer=true"]

[2489,77.284,0,"XEH: PostInit Finished"]

[2490,11.0041,"0:01:17.298","0:00:00.000","x\cba\addons\versioning\versioning.sqf",":",5,": cba_versioning_versions=["#CBA_HASH#",["cba"],[[[0,4,2,107],-1]],[[0,0,0],0]]"]

PRAA place claymore

totalmines 1

setter EH set

create trigger 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d

editor det 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d

detonate mine 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d

Error in expression <";

if (! isNil "_detID") then

{

_player removeAction _detID;

};

_SOnID = _claym>

Error position: <removeAction _detID;

};

_SOnID = _claym>

Error removeaction: Type Number, expected Object

File JTD_mines\scripts\JTD_detonate.sqf, line 56

disarmed minetype = CLAY, 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d

Mine added: true

grab claymore 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d type CLAY

grabbing CLAY

PRAA place claymore

totalmines 1

player det 22342100# 2076: claymoret.p3d

detonate mine 22342100# 2076: claymoret.p3d

No shape for ammo type JTD_ClaymoreExplosion

B 1-1-A:1 (Erik) killed

setter killed by <NULL-object>

claymores <null> boundings <null>

setclaymore false setbounding false

But it that mission I disarmed a mine etc. aswell, so maybe it's a bit cluttered, however, this part looks rather suspicious:

PRAA place claymore

totalmines 1

setter EH set

create trigger 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d

editor det 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d

detonate mine 22342680# 1921: claymoret.p3d

Error in expression <";

if (! isNil "_detID") then

{

_player removeAction _detID;

};

_SOnID = _claym>

Error position: <removeAction _detID;

};

[TRexian 0]

Ah! I think I know what it is. Will probably be able to re-do it and upload a new version over the weekend. :)

Also see something else I need to change.... :doh:

Edit:

Not sure why mine worked, though...

editor det 2ef14600# 351856: mon50t.p3d
detonate mine 2ef14600# 351856: mon50t.p3d
No shape for ammo type JTD_ClaymoreExplosion

Oh well, that's what testing is for, I guess.... :)

Edited November 12, 2010 by TRexian

[mcnools 62]

Ah! I think I know what it is. Will probably be able to re-do it and upload a new version over the weekend. :)

Also see something else I need to change.... :doh:

Ah, great news! I'm glad my report seems to have helped, I'll gladly test it out for you if you need it.

One thing you could look into is the delay between the smoke-effect and the actual explosion, it's mostly noticable for me when I trigger a bounding mine. Unless your'e already doing this. :)

Great addon nonetheless, even though it doesn't work properly for me yet, haha, it's very much needed.

[TRexian 0]

haha

Well, thank YOU for the reports!

With the bounding, there is a 3-5 second delay built into the fuse. So, if you walk over one, it will pause before exploding. I can tweak it so that it doesn't wait for a command detonated, but I thought it was still kinda realistic. No worries, though.

The explosion should happen at the same time (roughly) as the smoke, though.

[mcnools 62]

haha

Well, thank YOU for the reports!

With the bounding, there is a 3-5 second delay built into the fuse. So, if you walk over one, it will pause before exploding. I can tweak it so that it doesn't wait for a command detonated, but I thought it was still kinda realistic. No worries, though.

The explosion should happen at the same time (roughly) as the smoke, though.

Your'e welcome!

Ah, that explains it, maybe you could add the ability to tweak the delay? The delay sort of makes sense though, also, it adds some excitement if the player walks over it, and has time to see the mine and maybe get away, or not. Haha

For me it's about half a second before, atleast when the mine is triggered by a unit, but it's not that big a deal.

[TRexian 0]

OK, try this version:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/xdn2ndad8tc9paq/JTD_Mines_DevC_1112.zip

In my rpt, it gives me this (with the JTD_debug).

JTD place claymore
totalmines 1
setter EH set
create trigger 13c05a00# 1989: claymoret.p3d
editor det 13c05a00# 1989: claymoret.p3d
detonate mine 13c05a00# 1989: claymoret.p3d
No shape for ammo type JTD_ClaymoreExplosion
B 1-1-A:1 (Trexian) killed
setter killed by <NULL-object>
claymores <null> boundings <null>
setclaymore false setbounding false

You should get something similar?

[mcnools 62]

Tripwires now work! With a slight delay before the explosion. Maybe there could be a hint on the screen saying "TRIPWIRE!" or something? I didn't notice if there was any sound since my volume was pretty low, and I've never tripped a tripwire either, so I don't know if you notice it or not, haha.

Edit: Ah, no wait, the delay was just because there's a delay after setting the tripwire until it becomes active. It explodes right as the wire is tripped. The explosion should be hint enough, hah!

Anyway, sighting still doesn't seem to work properly, I can't seem to set off the mine. My rpt:

JTD place claymore

totalmines 1

setter EH set

[11287,237.727,0,"XEH: PreInit Started"]

[11287,237.993,0,"XEH: PreInit Finished"]

[11289,239.009,0,"XEH: PostInit Started"]

[11287,51.6129,"0:03:57.775","0:00:00.000","x\cba\addons\common\init.sqf",":",4,"MISSINIT: missionName=DEBUG, worldName=Desert_E, isMultiplayer=false, isServer=true"]

[11355,240.101,0,"XEH: PostInit Finished"]

[11356,48.3384,"0:04:00.127","0:00:00.000","x\cba\addons\versioning\versioning.sqf",":",5,": cba_versioning_versions=["#CBA_HASH#",["cba"],[[[0,4,2,107],-1]],[[0,0,0],0]]"]

JTD place claymore

totalmines 1

setter EH set

Edited November 12, 2010 by McNools

[TRexian 0]

Whew. :)

Glad that problem is fixed (for now)!

With the sight-in... you're in the desert terrain, right? This will sound strange, but try a different terrain. Whenever I've tried it in the desert something odd happens, too.

[mcnools 62]

Yeah, me too! :)

I tried it on Utes aswell, still no luck. :/

Should it explode even if it's me running infront of it? or does it need to be an enemy?

Edit: I've encountered another problem though, it seems that the claymores don't do any damage when placed close (1-2 metres) to trees, houses and big rocks, (the only objects I've tested it with), there isn't even a crater after the explosion. Bounding mines work fine despite being close to objects though it seems.

Here's an RPT (I placed the mine about half a metre from a house):

JTD place claymore

totalmines 1

setter EH set

create trigger 29dbc080# 439052: mon50t.p3d

editor det 29dbc080# 439052: mon50t.p3d

detonate mine 29dbc080# 439052: mon50t.p3d

No shape for ammo type JTD_ClaymoreExplosion

Edited November 13, 2010 by McNools