Falling down the helicopter

[Lonestar 11]

I searched the forum but i found nothing about this issue.

It happened to me two times in game : im in a helicopter, i switch position (last time it was to team leader seat) and i fall down the helicopter like a ..

Well let's say like a dog shit

Am i stupid or is it a bug?

:pThanks for the replies

[walker 0]

Hi LoneStar1

You do not say which Multi Player mission this happens in.

So it is impossible to be certain but it may be you are attemting to fly a chopper in a mission or game play form where non pasenger seats in the chopper are restricted by either role or rank; possibly both.

So in such a game form you have either to select the pilot role after login at slot choice screen or it may be that you must be involved in the capture of several objectives before you can rise to sufficient rank to enter a chopper in any role other than the passenger seat.

In some game forms you can only fly a chooper if you are both air crew and have a high rank.

Kind Regards walker

[xeno 230]

LoneStar1, it's a bug in A2.

Happens mostly when switching gunner seats in a chopper.

Xeno

[walker 0]

Hi Xeno

If it is a bug I have never experienced it.

I switch from crew chief to door gunner regularly in several missions and it has never happened to me.

If you are sure it is a bug; can you point to the record in the community issue tracker if there is not a record there, can you make such a report with an example mission and the procedure to repeat the bug, that way if such a bug exists it can be fixed.

Kind Regards walker

[xeno 230]

I switch from crew chief to door gunner regularly in several missions and it has never happened to me.

If you are in 3D view you can see the unit that switches positions shortly outside the chopper (afair it's same for other vehicles).

Might be a synchronize problem, maybe another player tried the same exactly at the same time, dunno.

It's allways nice to hear players moan in TS... "Oh no, I wanted to switch positions and fell out".

No idea if there is a ticket about it in CIT.

Xeno

[Lonestar 11]

Thank you i never thought you'd answer so quickly :)

Ok Walker you're right i ddin't mention the mission : co30 DomiA2! West

I didn't do it because i thought it was more a general problem of the game than a mission related.

Might be a synchronize problem, maybe another player tried the same exactly at the same time, dunno.

No impossible we were only two in the heli, and the other one was pilot and didn't switch.

No idea if there is a ticket about it in CIT.

On devheaven website? I searched and it didn't return any result about this problem.

It's allways nice to hear players moan in TS... "Oh no, I wanted to switch positions and fell out".

I was so ridiculous that my team mates now think i'm a jerk. I lost all my credibility :( Edited September 5, 2009 by Lonestar

[walker 0]

Hi LoneStar1

The versions of Domination I have played all had role restrictions several also had a rank system.

While I do not rule out the possibility of a bug completely, all I can say is that I have not experienced such a bug.

I can say that in various versions of domination jumping into the pilot seat or indeed a crew role without sufficient rank and/or not having selected a helicopter crew role in the assignment screen results in ejection from the aircraft. I have experienced this on the ground and never tried it in the air as a result, until I had sufficient rank. So I would presume that if you attempted to get in the pilot or indeed crew chief seat from a passenger seat of a helicopter without sufficient rank and or role capability it might well result in your summary ejection without parachute from said aircraft.

Bug tracking is made harder in ArmA by not showing the circumstances of a the bug. More often than not supposed ArmA bugs turn out to be mission bugs and yes that is even true of BIS campaign missions. And NO a BIS mission bug is not an ArmA bug; it is a mission bug.

Part of the problem is the lack of mission manual for many user made game forms. So for example the feature in Domination that prevents players below a certain rank from piloting gets called an ArmA bug when in fact it is a Domination feature even by Xeno and he project manages Domination.

Another problem is that some missions are adaptions and customisations of the original mission by other people who do not understand the scripts they are using, once again new features are not explained in manuals and are assumed to be bugs.

Kind Regards walker

[Belier13 0]

It occurs when you switch to a position right after another player does it (So let's call it synchronization problem).

Tested twice and confirmed.

[Lonestar 11]

Hi LoneStar1

The versions of Domination I have played all had role restrictions several also had a rank system.

While I do not rule out the possibility of a bug completely, all I can say is that I have not experienced such a bug.

I can say that in various versions of domination jumping into the pilot seat or indeed a crew role without sufficient rank and/or not having selected a helicopter crew role in the assignment screen results in ejection from the aircraft. I have experienced this on the ground and never tried it in the air as a result, until I had sufficient rank. So I would presume that if you attempted to get in the pilot or indeed crew chief seat from a passenger seat of a helicopter without sufficient rank and or role capability it might well result in your summary ejection without parachute from said aircraft.

Bug tracking is made harder in ArmA by not showing the circumstances of a the bug. More often than not supposed ArmA bugs turn out to be mission bugs and yes that is even true of BIS campaign missions. And NO a BIS mission bug is not an ArmA bug; it is a mission bug.

Part of the problem is the lack of mission manual for many user made game forms. So for example the feature in Domination that prevents players below a certain rank from piloting gets called an ArmA bug when in fact it is a Domination feature even by Xeno and he project manages Domination.

Another problem is that some missions are adaptions and customisations of the original mission by other people who do not understand the scripts they are using, once again new features are not explained in manuals and are assumed to be bugs.

Kind Regards walker

Oh come on you didn't read me Walker , you think i'm a noob?

I know about the rank system but this has nothing to do with my problem.

I was playing co30 DomiA2! West mission (no custom) and i jumped from a back seat to the gunner seat. My friend was piloting i didn't try to take his seat.

Hope this clears things up

Edited September 5, 2009 by Lonestar

[xeno 230]

It's a bug that was allready in A1 and is now carried over to A2.

It's not related to a mission, it's a problem in the engine itself.

Xeno

[walker 0]

Hi all

To Xeno, LoneStar1

While I do not rule out the possibility of a bug completely, all I can say is that I have not experienced such a bug.

Belier13 says he has a repeatable method of recreating the bug.

I presume this is in a virgin ArmA II mission, in other words no scripts or addons which he can allow us all to test.

I am sorry if you think I am pedantic, honnestly I am not. If there is a bug I want it killing same as anyone but it is a simple matter of fact that unless you can provide a repeatable set of circumstances it is damn near impossible to fix any bug that you can not see!

This then is how you report a bug.

Hi all

As Requested by Armored_Sheep

Instructions to reproduce the "local bug"

Required Resources:

* ArmA1.15

* A Dedicated Server

* Mission “AI Local Bug†(Link below)

http://www.zeus-community.net/z/AI_Local_Bug.zip

* 2 ArmA client computers

* 2 human players

Contents of mission

* 2 BLUEFOR Groups (but can be any side)

* Group 1 is 1 player plus 4 AI Slots (2 playable slots one to test one to observe bug if needed)

* Group 2 is vehicle group (2 playable slots one to test one to observe bug if needed)

Method

* Start Server

* Two Players log on to the Dedicated Server

* Load attached mission “AI Local Bugâ€

* 1st Player joins group named as “1-1-A†in the “Team Leaderâ€

* 2nd Player joins group named as “1-1-B†in the “Stryker Driverâ€

* Start mission

* Vehicle is stationary

* 1st Player tells all four of his AI to disembark keys (all four 1) [`] [4] [1]

Results

AI will not disembark

AI will only disembark if the the driver of the vehicle (2nd Player in this case) gets out (in this example)

Further:

AI will not disembark if any driver crew (human or AI) is in the vehicle and not part of the 1st players group (therefore local to 1st player)

Cause

The cause of this bug is believed to be priority of locality for the vehicle being driver; who is not local to the Player commander with AI in the cargo of the vehicle.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Locality_in_Multiplayer

Known Workarounds

You can have the crew eject while vehicle is in motion

Problem this leads to AI death and injury.

You can script an ejection

Problems

1) Not available in ArmA editor

2) Requires better than beginner knowledge of Real Virtuality engine scripting

3) Using Setpos can lead to AI and players setposed in to building walls etc.

4) Eject is ugly as players all land on top of each other requires a delay to clean up.

ACE has a working example of a scripted work around using the “Jump Out†action menu (all, six {number of Jump out user action }) [`] [6] [#].

Problem Ensuring Jump out is first action in user action menu

Additional Material

A video of this bug can be made available to BIS developers if required through Placebo via Skype.

Thank you to Terox for aid making example mission and testing it with me.

Kind Regards walker

or just use the community issue tracker

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1718

Of course reporting a bug is not the same as getting it fixed; that locality bug has been there since OFP but at least it has a chance of being fixed once it is recognisably described.

Kind Regards walker

[Lonestar 11]

Ok i get your point Walker. You are telling me that this is hard to recreate and so hard to solve the issue.

If it has been carried over from A1 then let's just leave it like this.

They will maybe never be able to fix it.

I am sorry if you think I am pedantic, honnestly I am not

No problem man ;)

[walker 0]

...You are telling me that this is hard to recreate and so hard to solve the issue.

NO NO NO! NO NO! :mad:

Now I am going to be really pedantic.

If it is a bug report it.

ArmA same as the world does not get better by people sitting on their lazy backsides saying some else should fix it. Take an hour and make a simple mission and post it in the CIT so it can be repeated.

Yes I know you do other things Xeno as do I but take the time contact Belier13 and LoneStar1 to share the load and between you reporting it and some effort from BIS it will stand a chance of being fixed.

Kind Regards walker

[Lonestar 11]

You've got to calm down ! :mad:

This is just a game.

I was not being lazy but i'm a casual gamer and i think i'm not the best person to report a bug.

If it exists since A1 (and it does) then it should be fixed by now.

I paid this game, i'm trying to have fun and it's already difficult enough.

:butbut:Incredible

[walker 0]

Hi all

There is no bug report in the CIT. There is no repeatable mission shown that can example the bug.

The inevitable conclusions are: you are mistaken or the bug does not exist Q.E.D.

Unless you can prove otherwise.

Kind Regards walker

[fincuan 0]

The bug does exist. I've experienced it myself several times and seen and heard several other people experience it. Unless falling out of a chopper when switching seats is considered a feature of course :)

It has nothing to do with role restrictions, and it isn't easy to repeat with consistent results.

edit: At least I do not know how to. By the looks of it Belier13 does.

How to experience it:

1) Get several players in a chopper. MH-60 is one I've fallen out of several times.

2) Have one player fly around while the others switch from backseat to gunner and crew chief, and back.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Fincuan

[walker 0]

Hi all

Fincuan I have only ever seen what you describe in missions like Domination where it is a feature of the game type; to prove other wise you need a vanila ArmA II mission with no addons or scripts as a test mission then your method:

1) Get several players in a chopper. MH-60 is one I've fallen out of several times.

2) Have one player fly around while the others switch from backseat to gunner and crew chief, and back.

untill you can prove otherwise:

1) There is no bug report in the CIT.

2) There is no repeatable mission shown that can example the bug.

The inevitable conclusions is: the bug does not exist Q.E.D.

Kind Regards walker

[fincuan 0]

1) There is no bug report in the CIT.

2) There is no repeatable mission shown that can example the bug.

All this means is

1) None has reported it

2) None has made one

These have nothing to do with whether the bug itself exists or not. You might want to believe people who have reported its existence right here in this thread, because it starts to get a bit repeative.

edit: I've come across this problem in several other missions besides Domination. Not that throwing people out of gunner and passenger seats would be a feature in Domi either.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Fincuan

[Lonestar 11]

edit: I've come across this problem in several other missions besides Domination. Not that throwing people out of gunner and passenger seats would be a feature in Domi either.

That's why i didn't create this thread in Xeno's official domination topic. Because i experienced that problem in other missions as well.

Anyway if you wanna do something about it Fincuan, just contact me (xfire, pm or mail) and we'll work out something together :)

Edited September 6, 2009 by Lonestar

[xeno 230]

The inevitable conclusions is: the bug does not exist Q.E.D.

L O L

I can list some more bugs that are not in CIT or mentioned anywhere. Does that mean they don't exist ?

Xeno

Edited September 6, 2009 by Xeno

[Lonestar 11]

I posted the bug on A2 CIT : http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/4328

Be forgiving, this is my first report and i didn't get everything about the howto.

Anyway now it's done, i will post as soon as i have news.

ps: If you could vote for my report it would be great ;)

Edited September 6, 2009 by Lonestar

[walker 0]

Hi all

Thank you LoneStar1 [Edit] Correcting my stupidity[/Edit]

Voted for but in the mean time guess what!

Very Kind Regards walker

Edited September 6, 2009 by walker

[Lonestar 11]

Thank you Xeno

Why for saying LOL? You should thank me for reporting the bug.

guess what!

guess what?

I didn't do it for you Walker, i still think your attitude was mean to me.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Lonestar

[walker 0]

Hi LoneStar1

Corrected my post for my supidity.

Yes I was mean to you but was not nasty, there is a destiction; Sorry but sometimes it is necassary. :(

As to the Guess What: Now you can see the power you actualy have in posting a bug; it is being dealt with.

And you should feel happy with your self.

Once again Very Kind regards walker

[Lonestar 11]

Ok end of discussion.

I reported this bug though i'm still astonished it was not done before considering the fact that it is a huge and ridiculous bug that kills realism.

Yes I was mean to you but was not nasty, there is a destiction; Sorry but sometimes it is necassary. :(

I understand your behavior but it is not the best one. As an experienced community member you must show patience towards every player, especially if he is new to some feature of the game.

It is never a solution to be mean but i can undertand that sometimes it's hard to keep it cool. We are all humans not robots.