FP : DR - News & Discussion

[Zipper5 74]

Well, to get it back on topic:

I've recently got to thinking about the hacking that will occur when the game is released, just like all games suffer from it. With the FLIR that is included in DR, that makes it so easy to point out units from far distances, I bet the first will be to enable and disable FLIR whenever you like. I believe that, if FLIR is to actually work, can't you see people through some thin objects because the hit signature is still there? Maybe that means the hackers will be able to use it as an all-in-one type of thing.

And with the type of community this game has been breeding, does anyone else think that hacking will be rampant once the MP kicks off with the release of the dedicated servers? On second thought, do we even know if DR will eventually have dedicated servers? Maybe it won't be such a problem then.

[bangtail 0]

Well, to get it back on topic:

I've recently got to thinking about the hacking that will occur when the game is released, just like all games suffer from it. With the FLIR that is included in DR, that makes it so easy to point out units from far distances, I bet the first will be to enable and disable FLIR whenever you like. I believe that, if FLIR is to actually work, can't you see people through some thin objects because the hit signature is still there? Maybe that means the hackers will be able to use it as an all-in-one type of thing.

And with the type of community this game has been breeding, does anyone else think that hacking will be rampant once the MP kicks off with the release of the dedicated servers? On second thought, do we even know if DR will eventually have dedicated servers? Maybe it won't be such a problem then.

Ughh. I don't even like public servers in A2. As much as many of them claim to hate A2, there are still plenty of muppets on the public servers.

You can be guaranteed that DR will suffer from the same nonsense that vBF2 suffers from.

One of the smartest things the Reality mod (BF2 mod) guys did was screen the people they give the server software to. I'm not saying there is NO cheating in PRM, but there is very little (and I've never seen any).

Eth

[Kayjay 10]

Pre release reviews are all bullshit anyway.

You'll only get an objective opinion after it's released.

Read any IGN preview and it's "we're so excited", "looks awesome" etc etc but that can be quickly be replaced by a 2/10 AFTER the game is released.

Eth

there are already reviews. SO there are PREVIEWS and REVIEWS for DR already. i believe the linked ones are reviews. and for the record. both previews and reviews have been quite pleasing. generally anyway.

[dm 9]

the MP sounds.. well.. "handicapped" to say the least. Im positive that its solely so that the game works on consoles.... fucking bane on the gaming world. Whats the point putting a game on a leash on PC's?

Indeed, they said that peoples fears of it being limited/dumbed don for consoles were unjustified, when clearly they are. Sad the price paid for one comon engine across 3 very different platforms.

Also, have just read this thread from start to finish on the codemasters forums. And it provides some interesting insight.

A few of the more choice quotes:

some very cool things I saw included shooting at them with a SCAR-H, they instantly hit the floor and started crawling backwards away from the fire, although from such range they didn't know where I was.

He goes on to say that most engagements were ~200m in a later post, although the range finder on his binocs stopped working at about 1200m

Not much of a fan of the SCAR and it's all you get for the first 2 missions but the weapons look and feel A LOT better than on any videos so far.

-ve points for kit loadout, unless it is confirmed that we're part of a MARSOC unit, and not just a regular MEU - the SCAR is being procured by SOCOM and would only be issued to their units (MARSOC being part of SOCOM would get SCARs, a regular MEU would get M16A4's) Falls into the same derp as both ArmA and dragon rising having AH-6's supporting Marine operations...

+ve on the look and feel.

The AI is plenty aggressive, especially if you're running away form them, they may lose sight of you but they will pursue you effectively and take you out one at a time.

Thats a plus, same way they do in ArmA.

Have you seen evidence of the morale system for both friendly and enemy AI?

There are some instances of that not working e.g. standing out in the open for me to shoot them when they're already under fire, but most of the time they react well. All of this is helped SO much by how they don't instantly see and recognise you, and how their only knowledge of where you are relies on where they saw you last. If there is no cover available nearby they will usually hit the floor and return fire.

Another plus, will have to wait and see how they compare to the ArmA ai in the long run, also hampered by the fact that they will be in the same spot every time you run the mission?

Just a little fact the ballistics system is AMAZING. Using your binoculars you can look at a target and right trigger locats the range of that target as well as giving you a bearing. That range (say... 200 meters) then directly relates to the second dot down on your M21's scope meaning you align that second dot and the bullet will dip and hit them.

So no adjustable scopes there either - pretty much exactly the same as how you do it in ArmA (and even OFP)

Didn't see much driving, the only driving I saw was a scripted truck convoy and some AAVPs(?) They moved fairly well and didn't get stuck anywhere so... overall good?

Scripted convoy didnt get stuck, so thats a plus. Will ave to wait and see how they perform when they're not given strict waypoints to follow (one of the reviews - it was a positive one - complained that the ai would drive into stuff when it had to path plan its self)

Game runs very smooth and is nicer than arma in terms of weapons reloading, having all those modern niceties that Arma skipped in place of core gameplay.

So the incidental animations are nicer, but the "core gameplay" isnt as good.

Close combat is unfortunately still like Arma where the A.I. cna often lack any idea of what to do, especially if they don't know you're coming. On the whole it's good, but there are bad bits.

Close combat is occasionally fail.

So CQB against the AI is just as derpy as in ArmA, and if you're hunting human opponents we can only assume the mechanics are the same as cod/halo (gun welded to the center of the screen)?

The enemy is unfortunately not as accurate as I would have hoped, but having said that you will get shot many a time by a lucky bullet.

They've gone for the opposite end of the stick to BIS - and actually the more realistic one. That for every 100 rounds you fire, one might hit your intended target. Although this is ONLY for the AI. Ad it doesnt specify if that is just enemy AI, or both friendly AND enemy AI.

A better thing to point out is you really feel you want to limit YOUR fire at them so you don't draw attention to yourself so much as you would in COD.

At least some of the fear is there then. Thats a plus.

some people survived pretty much unscathed from a 105mm strike (they were still dead, just not pedigree chum). Then I shot someone through the head with a SCAR-H and his skull blew out the back. ****'s so cash.

Human damage model is in - as we saw in the recent video, but only for bullet damage.

Audio is nice, ambient sounds like birds and stuff is pretty cool, really adds atmosphere when sneaking about. Rifles and stuff going off in the distance are not ambience, that's other people fighting. Very cool.

Thats good, same as ArmA then.

Draw distance is stunning, most of the campaign was in a valley so saw very little, but after a big ****-off climb it was stunning. Binoculars ranged something at 1190 meters away but I think they ran out of range...

Theres that 1200m range "limit" would be interesting to see whether thats just for the xbox, or for all platforms. No indication yet of the full 30-whatever-it-was km view distance.

Field dressings are average. You just hold the box and right trigger makes a loading bar with a plus in the middle go up. Then you're healed. Havent seen the other option thing used.

Magical first aid, as to be expected from the videos. But then ArmA does this too - because its a game, so "simulating" being dragged off the battlefield for 6 months rehabilitation after a GSW to the leg wouldnt be all that fun.

Blood effects are cool, you and your team get blood or mud on your faces and hands depending on if you've got shot or just lay down for a while.

Even if vehicles dont get dirty, at least your character does, which is very cool.

I'd say arma is more about core gameplay rather than nice smooth graphics and animaitons that flashpoint has. Flashpoint loses some of the cool features of Arma II but has FAR superior animations and environments. Ambience noises and such, which all help to make the game FEEL better, even if you cant tell your A.I. to perform a backflip-axe-throwing-sommersault-ammo-gathering-vehicle-entering-manouver.

Will let that one speak for its self.

In terms of playing, and this is SOLELY my opinion. I can play this game on my own, until I finish the solo campaign. Then I think I'd lose interest. I could play for ever on CO-OP as it really is a social game.

And there we have it - on SP alone it is dull, but factor in the multiplayer and it has replayability, apparently. Time will tell I guess. In fairness, I still play BF2 and CoD4, and they are in even more restricted maps than dragon rising. However, those maps are carefully constructed and balanced to provide flow and playability. How well this will work with a 2 x 2km box plonked onto some real world terrain data is yet to be seen.

The AAVP looks impressive, A commander, Gunner, Driver and then THIRTEEN passengers.

Nothing ground breaking in vehicles then.

Graphics are nice, not fantastic, but the atmosphere that is generated from the time periods and lighting effects are second to none. I even saw a little patch of fog (About 10x10 meters) in the early morning, I acctually shivered as though it was cold.

Another "well there you go" point. The graphics might not be super photo realistic, but combined with the audio it sucks you into it, and thats all that counts. OFP achieved that, and apparently dragon rising does too.

No flip up sights I'm afraid, just your standard rifle sighting.

Nothing new and amazing there then.

If I have to change tactics on the fly that was usually just before getting royally ****ed by A LOT of asians.

So once you've got your plan, best stick to it?

Or it could be because of:

Command radial is hard to navigate to a beginnner but you start to memorise the codes for what you want and there are A LOT of options available also.

the learning curve for the radial.

Recoil was nice, and there is a destinct limit on fire rate. On pistols that is annoying as it really limits their capabilities in close range

Thats a little concering for two reasons - 1. slow recoil anims limiting the rate of fire?!?!?! 2. pistols having limited capabilities at close range?!?! I hope this isnt a Half-Life 2 esq "use your pistol as a sniper rifle" scenario :S

Fatigue is cool, loads of increasingly heavy breathing then you get a heartbeat vibration in your controller.

But aside from the heavy breathing, does it actually limit you, or can you still run a marathon with 6 javelin missiles, as you could in OFP/ArmA? At least there is some sort of fatigue system, thats a plus.

saw a few ricochets, VERY cool VERY realistic, AI shooting at long range, watched a tracer bullet fly, dip after distance and hit the floor flat, so it bounced at about a 20 degree angle from the floor, dipped again and then stopped.

At least there is some sort of ballistics - not just laser bullets. Thats good.

Another cool feature, you cannot cook grenades, you pull the pn out but hold onto the handle until you throw it, then you hear the little "ding" as the handle falls off and you throw it.

Oh, oh dear... Nothing good to say about that, both games are as limited as each other in that respect...

Yes I used artillery, destruction model on buildings is as impressive as the smoke effects are

Sounds promising. Still no confirmation of more than the dozen or so buildings we've seen in the preview videos. Its easy to put a lot of shine into very little content...

Game runs very smooth but with a few clunky things like arma had - like getting in vehicles

:D

how fast is the day/night cycle?

x3 speed which equals 8 real hours for a 24hr game cycle

Oh dear again... "Real" day/night cycle that takes only 8 hours...

And thats about it. It seems mostly positive, which is a pleasant surprise.

There is, however, NO indication of any of the ground breaking new features and functionality which would make it the proclaimed "ArmA killer". It seems very much like ArmA, scaled down and with a little bit more polish IN CERTAIN PLACES.

At the end of the day however, he posted this:

I just got Empire Total War so I may be retiring from this thread

So it seems more of a "dip-in-and-out" game than a "dedicate the next 7 years of your life to it" game... Read from that what you will...

[bangtail 0]

there are already reviews. SO there are PREVIEWS and REVIEWS for DR already. i believe the linked ones are reviews. and for the record. both previews and reviews have been quite pleasing. generally anyway.

Yes, and they are all pre release (because the game hasn't released yet). I know this is a difficult concept for you but do try to keep up.

Eth

[dm 9]

I would debunk every post you made DM but i dont have the time today,

How convenient... Or is it just that you cant?

youy lack of knowledge, or update of knowledge is laughable, dont embaress your self by no proof lol, every answer you provided was so weak

This, is debunked (nice that you start using that word after I did, does using big words make you feel more clever?) by this.

Each quote is an actual experience of someone biased neither way, playing dragon rising.

Also, I find it highly amusing that someone who posts a list of "reasons dragon rising is better than ArmA2" doesnt even know that 90% of what he listed is already in ArmA2, is judging me on my "lack of knowledge".

On the plus side ofcourse, I shouldnt be ill for quite some time.. .They do say laughter is the best medicine, and I've had a LOT of laughter today.

@TimRice - as one ex-pat to another, I have to say I agree. Its rather sad, but what can you do :(

Edit to add:

i thought people would talk abou the features

And we would. If any of them actually existed or were new in any way.

Edited October 4, 2009 by DM

[space 10]

Zipper thats not talking about the game - thats thinly veiled trolling. In my experience ArmA has plenty of hackers and kiddies too, and to have a discussion about potential hacks that may or may not appear for OFP : DR in the future isn't really much of a discussion about the game. That would be like speculating what BIS may or may not break with their next patch.

Also DM - get a life - you completely misrepresent facts, and constantly take quotes out of context. You know you do this, so ask yourself why you feel the need to do that? eg :

The guy who played it said:

I just got Empire Total War so I may be retiring from this thread

And you say :

So it seems more of a "dip-in-and-out" game than a "dedicate the next 7 years of your life to it" game... Read from that what you will...

You obviously read the whole thread, so you know full well that the guy didn't actually have the game himself, but he had played it at a friends house.

[bangtail 0]

Zipper thats not talking about the game - thats thinly veiled trolling. In my experience ArmA has plenty of hackers and kiddies too, and to have a discussion about potential hacks that may or may not appear for OFP : DR in the future isn't really much of a discussion about the game. That would be like speculating what BIS may or may not break with their next patch.

Also DM - get a life - you completely misrepresent facts, and constantly take quotes out of context. You know you do this, so ask yourself why you feel the need to do that? eg :

The guy who played it said:

And you say :

You obviously read the whole thread, so you know full well that the guy didn't actually have the game himself, but he had played it at a friends house.

15 posts of fail and counting.

[Zipper5 74]

Zipper thats not talking about the game - thats thinly veiled trolling. In my experience ArmA has plenty of hackers and kiddies too, and to have a discussion about potential hacks that may or may not appear for OFP : DR in the future isn't really much of a discussion about the game. That would be like speculating what BIS may or may not break with their next patch.

Why. Does. Everyone. Call me. A troll. For stuff. That clearly isn't trolling.

How on earth is that trolling? Not once did I say OFP, ArmA or ArmA II didn't have hackers. They had tons. I really hated playing MP for the first part of ArmA and ArmA II's releases (I didn't start playing OFP MP until long after it's release).

Jesus, people just throw that "troll" word around now like "gay" and "n00b". Stop being so offensive. Offensiveness begets offensiveness, and if you're going to point out my reply to Flarmapoint 2 on the previous page, that's exactly what I mean. You be unjustifiably offensive to me or others, I'm going to be offensive back.

[echo1 0]

That would be like speculating what BIS may or may not break with their next patch.

I'm pretty sure people do that in the appropriate sections of the forum :p

Also DM - get a life - you completely misrepresent facts, and constantly take quotes out of context. You know you do this, so ask yourself why you feel the need to do that?

It seems that all you do is accuse people of talking shit, but never provide any proper examples. On the flipside, when people catch you out, you have nothing to say for yourself. Maybe you're the one who needs a life? I'm sure DM would admit that he was wrong if someone could actually point out where he is wrong, which neither you nor the other imbecile have managed to accomplish.

You obviously read the whole thread, so you know full well that the guy didn't actually have the game himself, but he had played it at a friends house.

So why isn't he waiting to get OFP DR then? The guy was basically like "I played this game, it was cool, but now I'm getting another game". I think DM came to a perfectly valid conclusion from that statement. Maybe it was meant in a "I'm going to play this other game for the time being" kind of way, but I can certainly see why DM interpreted it the way he did.

Edited October 4, 2009 by echo1

[dm 9]

You obviously read the whole thread, so you know full well that the guy didn't actually have the game himself, but he had played it at a friends house.

Yes, and when I was 13, and Quake 2 was just released, I spent almost all of my free time at my best mates house playing it. He had it, and a PC, I did not.

When OFP came out in 2001, I made my parents take me to the local electronics shop dozens of times to get my PC sorted out so I could play it. When it didnt run, I made them take me (and the PC) back to get it sorted.

If the game grips you that much, that you WANT to play it, you would do everything within your power to be able to play it. Considering that it was "his partner" who got the promo copy, I think it speaks volumes that he was happy enough to either go home or switch games, both of which dropped dragon rising by the wayside.

Dragon rising, it seems, did not grip him in that same "oh my god I must play it now" way.

[space 10]

DM - he said it was his partners friend who works in the industry that has the game - he said that him and 6 of his mates went round to their house to play it. Im sure he wants to play it, but he cant buy it yet! :D

And if you want to quote sections from his thread, how about this bit when Rommel350 from this forum asked :

Would you recommend it to someone who has always played the BIS series, and spends most hours in game: patrolling a windy dark forest path at 1AM both in game and IRL. Securing photographs on an enemies position and reporting that on a forum before coming back two nights later (ie persistent mission, never ended) with about 10 more people to raid it for a VIP?

...and is looking for a similar experience with this game.

The reply was :

Rommel - Yes. Yes I can.

[4 IN 1 0]

So it just almost the same to A2, except that it is smaller in scale, better looking then A2, limited in MP, and we have no idea if it is modable or not:j:

[dm 9]

I have to admit, I missed that one. I was only reading Dragunova's posts (who wants to read all the other fluff in a thread like that) so when I saw "Yes, yes i can" it didnt really mean much.

And I think thats a good thing.

Contrary to what a lot of people say, I actually want dragon rising to be a good game. I'm just more focused on the truth - what the game actually is than the PR spin and the endless hype by people like flarma, people who have been suckered in by the spin, and believe everything they are told by the PR machine.

[space 10]

So it just almost the same to A2, except that it is smaller in scale, better looking then A2, limited in MP, and we have no idea if it is modable or not:j:

Thats pretty much how I see it right now, plus it seems to be pretty much bug free, and has far lower hardware requirements (probably due to its smaller scale)

The golden question is how are the MP and modding capabilities. Noone has played MP yet for obvious reasons, and CM are being suspiciously quiet about modding ( apparently the guy who deal with modding it is on holiday - it would make sense as they have no doubt been working hard to recently, but they can only use that excuse for so long )

[Bush 0]

better looking then A2

It’s definitely not better looking than ArmA2, DR is way behind in that area.

[space 10]

It’s definitely not better looking than ArmA2, DR is way behind in that area.

I see you have a Sapphire 4890. I can "only" afford a 4850, and trust me, to get ArmA running on my PC, it doesn't look quite as pretty as all the promo screenshots for ArmA. So Id say yes - with the highest spec hardware ArmA most probably does have the better graphics, but if you took your average PC gamer, and set each game to run smoothly, then I think it maybe OFP that has the edge.

[ProfTournesol 956]

then I think it maybe OFP that has the edge.

This game isn't called OFP AFAIK so please use the appropriate name on this forum at least.

[Bush 0]

I see you have a Sapphire 4890. I can "only" afford a 4850

The 4890 is not really expensive, the price is under $200/€200 now. I did in fact upgrade from a 4870 and gave the "old" card to my brother.

[Apache-Cobra 0]

There is, however, NO indication of any of the ground breaking new features and functionality which would make it the proclaimed "ArmA killer". It seems very much like ArmA, scaled down and with a little bit more polish IN CERTAIN PLACES.

DR already provides an excellent base assuming modding is possible. With mods it could easily destroy ArmA in most aspects.

Some great features I can't wait to play around with...

-FLIR

-Ballistics- Bullets are REAL objects, if you hit print screen fast enough you can see them

-Penetration- No hitpoints like ArmA, every area of every vehicle has an armor rating which a weapon must surpass in order to penetrate it

-As an addition to the above point, body armor is also simulated on troops and I think that helmets might also be accounted for

-Apparently functional AI that takes cover and is affected by and uses suppressive fire

-Real vehicle suspension and handling unlike ArmA where you are driving a slab of concrete on rollerskates, dynamic helicopter rotor-lift effects from moving the collective up and down

-AI morale system- retreating, hiding and crying, etc.

-Gore system- limb loss, dynamic blood textures on troops, other various effects such as part of a head getting blown off, your chest getting gutted, etc.

-Optimized engine, runs well on average PCs, no random lockups or memory leaks

-According to a bunch of reviews and opinions from others who have played the game, the sound system is amazing and immersive.

-LUA scripting and well documented mission editor, so mission makers don't need to learn on their own and document things themselves

-Just overall more professional, CM is a professional game developer with lots of resources and money whereas BI is more like a group of people.

I could probably list a few more things if I thought more and dug around a bit, but I'll just stop here.

Sure, there are a bunch of limitations on the game, but in my opinion the pros outweigh the cons big time, and I can't wait to be making the switch from ArmA to DR.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Apache-Cobra

[von_paulus 0]

Here we go again...

[space 10]

-Ballistics- Bullets are REAL objects, if you hit print screen fast enough you can see them

Oh, saw a few ricochets, VERY cool VERY realistic, AI shooting at long range, watched a tracer bullet fly, dip after distance and hit the floor flat, so it bounced at about a 20 degree angle from the floor, dipped again and then stopped.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5680728&postcount=199

Sounds very cool

[bangtail 0]

, and I can't wait to be making the switch from ArmA to DR.

We can't wait until you make the switch either.

Eth

PS : Can you take Space with you?

PPS : Somebody else already posted a list that was similar to yours and near enough all of the "points" were refuted in short order. I'm sure someone will do the same with your stupid list before the day is out.

Edited October 4, 2009 by BangTail

[echo1 0]

DR already provides an excellent base assuming modding is possible. With mods it could easily destroy ArmA in most aspects.

This is an example of what I'd call a self-refuting argument.

[Bush 0]

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5680728&postcount=199

Sounds very cool

Sure it's cool, but unfortunately the "real bullets" have been in BIS games since 2001 and the "ricochets" have been in ArmA since 2006. So these are not new features.