LODs not ordered by face count: Info, Help

[bravo 6 0]

What and why does this appear?

After binarizing models with BinPBO program there are some warning messages in the *.log files:

For example:

Warning: 'p:\bc6plants\bc_clutter_d2_grassshort.p3d': LODs not ordered by face count 0 (0): 22 faces < 1 (1) 22 faces

Warning: 'p:\bc6plants\bc_clutter_desertgrass_long.p3d': LODs not ordered by face count 0 (0): 6 faces < 1 (1) 6 faces

...

What do i need to do in order to make it correct, without the warning message?

Also what happens if this is kept like this? Does it create performance issues?

[luki 53]

This means u have same amout of polys in your lods. You should always try cut down the poly and facecount to 50% in the next lod. It seems you have same count in 2 lods. When you have Lod1 with 1000poly then Lod2 should be around 500 polys. Im not a modeler but im sure this is the source of the error message. I didnt see any performance problem with this but im not sure how the engine handle such objects/lods, maby the model experts can explain it into more detail.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Atsche

[Snake Man 407]

Yeah this is O2 modeling question, so wrong area.

Name your resolution LODs in order, like 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 etc. Drop each lower res LOD 50% points like Sgt.Ace/Ace said.

Do not forget to set last LOD with less than 100 points and with only 1 section.

[bravo 6 0]

Yes I agree, O2 area. Is there a kind and handy moderator to please move this thread to correct one, O2 section? Sorry for posting it here, since it was codes i thought it would be better.

Ok, I have some doubts and I not sure if i understand the correct logic:

• 1. Do i need to start with LOD 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 .. (if etc (more LODs) are necessary, though i don't know when or if they are necessary)?
  or
  must i start with 0.0, 1.0, 2.0 etc ?
  Whats the logic limit?

• 2. Why can't i use just 1 Lod (per example 0.0) for all models? What the other LODs do exactly in game?! Does they have to do with the visual control settings?

Note: I'm aware of the LOD definition

edit:

Do not forget to set last LOD with less than 100 points and with only 1 section.

what you mean with only 1 section, can you give an example? Sorry if this sounds a stupid question.

Edited April 24, 2009 by bravo 6

[.kju 3245]

2. Performance. At distance you dont need high poly models.

Hard part is to make sure shape and texture colors does not change much.

As seen from BI vegetation, generate stuff does not work well ..

[Snake Man 407]

Ok, I have some doubts and I not sure if i understand the correct logic:1. Do i need to start with LOD 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 .. (if etc (more LODs) are necessary, though i don't know when or if they are necessary)?or must i start with 0.0, 1.0, 2.0 etc ?Whats the logic limit?

Generally BIS models start from 1.0 and continue incrementally 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc you get the picture. Some models have those weird jumps on the numbers.

You're doing good if you use the standard 1.0, 2.0 etc method

Why can't i use just 1 Lod (per example 0.0) for all models?

Because it would be wrong in so many ways.

For starters: Your addon would cause framerate loss (assuming its normal/high res model), it wouldn't be standard addon, it would only be good for compat whore photography topic, you would be lame as mod maker.

What the other LODs do exactly in game?! Does they have to do with the visual control settings?

They gradually reduce the points/faces used in the model. 1.0 lod uses the most resources from your computer, the last lod uses the less resources. Engine swaps these LODs according how much under stress it is.

LODs are the reason ArmA runs smooth. If there would be no LODs in any models, your ArmA would be a slideshow, most likely just CTD'in all the time.

what you mean with only 1 section, can you give an example? Sorry if this sounds a stupid question.

Well I think you need to visit PMC Editing Wiki: Section fixing and if you have further questions, feel free to ask. While you're at it, register to PMC Tactical forums and I'll answer ALL your questions there with more thorough than in there (I shy!).

[bravo 6 0]

I have tested and actually noticed why several LODs are built, though i believe in some cases its not necessary to have more then 1 LOD.

Take per example this model case:

Stone3_clutter.p3d

If you check this original BIS model, it only contains 1 LOD = 10.000

So why 10.000 was used and not 1.000?

Does it really matter the number we use for start?

What if we can build a model that runs fluid ingame with just 1 LOD, why build more lods? (yes im lazy :) )

per example, my hut model runs very smooth on my crappy computer with just 1 LOD.. so why should i build more LODs?!

Edit: typo

Edited April 27, 2009 by bravo 6

[.kju 3245]

10.000 is normally shadow lod, isn't it?

[bravo 6 0]

10.000 is normally shadow lod, isn't it?

I don't know, is it?!

Im aware of this: LOD ShadowVolume.

I have no idea what you mean Q, i mean kju. ARF!

[Snake Man 407]

I have tested and actually noticed why several LODs are built, though i believe in some cases its not necessary to have more then 1 LOD.

Yes you are correct, if the model's first LOD is 100 or less points with one section.

So why 10.000 was used and not 1.000?

I don't know.

Does it really matter the number we use for start?

I don't know. Most of the BIS material is with incremental numbering, so that's what I'm using. In the hundreds of models BIS has made, only few are the exceptions which have irregular numbers, for example their BMP has them.

What if we can build a model that runs fluid ingame with just 1 LOD, why build more lods? (yes im lazy :) )

per example, my hut model runs very smooth on my crappy computer with just 1 LOD.. so why should i build more LODs?!

Well my friend... if you place 30,000 point object in rahmadi on mission editor, it runs smooth, no problems. But place few of them, place 10 of them, place other units, place 500 units on the background, place whole complete terrain with 1 million objects, scripts, stuff, AI, uuh aah... and guess what, yes a stutter, a lag, a FPS drop.

That's what you're getting if you're cutting corners.

I know many "respected" addon groups do it, but there is no reason for your to sink to their level. Just do the low res LOD's and you can rest assured that your model/addon performs properly and doesn't cause any slowdowns, also you can feel good about yourself that you've done the addon "right" instead cutting corners.

Oh btw, I just realized I haven't done complete "how to make low res LODs" tutorial, damn, sorry about that, I'll put that on my TODO list now.

[Linker Split 0]

stone_clutter does have only one LOD cause it's a clutter and it's automatically placed by engine on the terrain and get faded out by it.

10.000 is the SHADOW LOD used only with SHADOWVOLUME LOD and the named property "Shadow Hybrid" cause as the name says it all, it uses both Stencil shadows and Shadowvolume LOD generated shadows (only for trees and bushes)... :)

[Synide 0]

In the example you mention, (stone3_clutter.p3d) 10.0 is a resolution lod.

If it was a 'ShadowVolume 10.0' lod it would be written as such in the lods listing dialog when you open the model in O2.

To be a 'ShadowVolume 10.0' lod it would have a resolution lod value of 10010.0.

So why 10.000 was used and not 1.000?

Perhaps the person that created the model in question didn't have a coffee that morning. Also, you might find that although there is a 'stone3_clutter.p3d' model it may not actually be used anywhere in-game.

As there's never been a definitive developer guide as to what the calculations are regarding the resolution values and the usage of a given resolution in game, one can only speculate. A few people have endeavoured to analyze and provide a guide but this is based on observation while in game. While useful, it'd be better to know the story.

As SnakeMan indicated the desire should be to provide the game engine with material in a form that requires the least amount of additional work to be performed on it. While the engine is robust in the sense it will attempt to 'fall back' onto various lods if others are not present etc., this requires extra work to be done at interactive speeds.

[bravo 6 0]

Ok, slowly things start to make more sense and with all these help I'm being able to improve my models correctly :)