ralphwiggum 6 Posted March 6, 2002 I don't know who the photographer was, but sure is dumb as hell-looking right up the barrel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted March 6, 2002 "tel that to all the "oh my god some civilians got killed in afghanistan!!' people.. they often forget.. " So you think it is just as acceptable with civilians dieing as with soldiers dieing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobble 1 Posted March 6, 2002 no, but as ronin said "its war, and in war shit happens" that goes to civs too.. as unfair as it might be, its still true. case in point.. the west coast of the US.. late WW2.. a unexploded bomb from one of the ill fated japanese ballon bombs lies in a field.. a family picnicing near it sees it.. "what is that?" they say, they touch it.. BOOM they are all dead.. (true story) in war.. shit like that happens.. no mattet how good the army, causualties are going to occur one way or the other, and no matter how innocent the civs and how careful the military(s) are.. some will always die... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Scooby Posted March 6, 2002 Bunkers can be protected from over and under pressure. Flamethrowers and 12.7 weapons arent banned and you can use 12.7 against humans as much as you want. Geneva convention is important but also somewhat impossible to follow in every situation. If other side breaks it then other side will also break it and sooner or later both sides will be in cycle where they are committing worse and worse crimes against other side. Ofcourse it has parts that are impossible to follow in combat but it still is good base to make war less inhuman for civilians and soldiers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted March 6, 2002 You know the guy that fell outa the chopper was still alive,3 guys was dragging him away and shot him,the thing i don't get is where the heck was his gun ? isn't the guy that fell outta the chopper should have been a POW ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted March 6, 2002 "You know the guy that fell outa the chopper was still alive,3 guys was dragging him away and shot him,the thing i don't get is where the heck was his gun ? isn't the guy that fell outta the chopper should have been a POW ?" This is the first I heard of him being dragged away and shot. But if he fell out of a helicopter he could very likely... 1. Have dropped his weapon. 2. Injured himself severly. 3. Not even had a weapon (could have been a crew member, door gunner, whatever). 4. Been taken by surprise and never had time to use his weapon. As for him being a POW, maybe the Taliban thought he was a "detainee" and "unlawful combatant" and therefor wasn't a POW. Hey, if it works for one side... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted March 6, 2002 He was a navy seal,I just don't see how he didn't have a weapon when he's going into a warzone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted March 6, 2002 Yeah, I read about it aswell now. He probably dropped it while falling out, was to injured to do anything or was taken before he could do anything about his situation. Or possibly all of the above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Scooby Posted March 6, 2002 We do not know from how high he dropped and how severly he injured when he hit ground. I would guess that keeping weapon at hands is not first thing to come into mind when RPG hits your helo and you fall out of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 06 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for him being a POW, maybe the Taliban thought he was a "detainee" and "unlawful combatant" and therefor wasn't a POW. Hey, if it works for one side...<span id='postcolor'> oh ho...so now the benevolent, righteous anti-American says it's ok for Taliban to execute ppl since US did it, huh? well here's a little reality for you. Cuban detainees are STILL ALIVE! they were not dragged and executed!!!!!!!! This is exact reason why anti-Americans are just a bunch of f!@#ing idiots. They always cry foul when US does this, but when other side does same, or worse thing, they just shut their f!@#ing mouth and do nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Scooby @ Mar. 06 2002,15:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We do not know from how high he dropped and how severly he injured when he hit ground. I would guess that keeping weapon at hands is not first thing to come into mind when RPG hits your helo and you fall out of it.<span id='postcolor'> I read and saw on the TV that an RPG was fired at the helo and failed to detonate (bounced off)...the helicopter MUST HAVE quickly pulled up and away...very quickly....and since they were getting ready to deploy...he was already at the door and fell from the sudden violent movement. A variety of reasons for the no gun....too injured to use it...he fell out, it fell in the helicopter (not likely...imagine it was strapped to him)....might have landed on a rock....jsut a variety of reasons... And everyone that says it was ok for them to drag him off adn shoot him can blow me. Its the standard crap from the same people...."You can't do that, bit its ok if they do worse to you." Please....your alleged "non-bias" or "anti-government" standing is being overshadowed by your true feelings...you make me sick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 06 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"You know the guy that fell outa the chopper was still alive,3 guys was dragging him away and shot him,the thing i don't get is where the heck was his gun ? isn't the guy that fell outta the chopper should have been a POW ?" This is the first I heard of him being dragged away and shot. But if he fell out of a helicopter he could very likely... 1. Have dropped his weapon. 2. Injured himself severly. 3. Not even had a weapon (could have been a crew member, door gunner, whatever). 4. Been taken by surprise and never had time to use his weapon. As for him being a POW, maybe the Taliban thought he was a "detainee" and "unlawful combatant" and therefor wasn't a POW. Hey, if it works for one side...<span id='postcolor'> OMG how can u compare being executed and held as a Detanee, ppl like u make me sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 06 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"You know the guy that fell outa the chopper was still alive,3 guys was dragging him away and shot him,the thing i don't get is where the heck was his gun ? isn't the guy that fell outta the chopper should have been a POW ?" This is the first I heard of him being dragged away and shot. But if he fell out of a helicopter he could very likely... 1. Have dropped his weapon. 2. Injured himself severly. 3. Not even had a weapon (could have been a crew member, door gunner, whatever). 4. Been taken by surprise and never had time to use his weapon. As for him being a POW, maybe the Taliban thought he was a "detainee" and "unlawful combatant" and therefor wasn't a POW. Hey, if it works for one side...<span id='postcolor'> And it wasn't a door gunner....it was a CH47. He was a Navy SEAL. One can't expect the Al Queda to take him POW, but to compare him with the prisoners at Guatanamo makes me sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 6, 2002 Something that sperates us from them, we have morals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted March 6, 2002 I have not compared him to anything. But if you class the people you fight as one thing and determine that they are not lawful combatants, how the hell do you expect them to treat you in return? According to the Geneva convention? Get real. I am not saying that had a right to shoot him. I am not saying it is good that he did. What I AM saying is that it is not so strange that they did. See the difference? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 06 2002,18:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What I AM saying is that it is not so strange that they did.<span id='postcolor'> Thing's we've known about the Taliban: - They targeted and slaughtered civilians in the WTC - Brutalized and executed their own people - In the Soviet-Afghan war they were known to skin captured Russian soldiers alive. It got to the point where Russian soldiers/airmen wore a grenade inside their uniform with a string attached to the pin in case they were about to be captured. (Granted the Soviets weren't too big on the Geneva convention themselves) You mean to say these same boyscouts would excecute a captured enemy?? OMFG what is the world coming to??!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rpc007 0 Posted March 6, 2002 The choppers do have door gunners, go watch a video and u see a MG out the side, the navy seal may have been shot and then fell out they are not sure and the rest died in a 9 hour fire fight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rpc007 @ Mar. 06 2002,20:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The choppers do have door gunners, go watch a video and u see a MG out the side, the navy seal may have been shot and then fell out they are not sure and the rest died in a 9 hour fire fight<span id='postcolor'> Ooops... I misspoke. Â I wasn't trying to say they didn't have door gunners cause they do...I just was meaning it isn't a "door" gunner per se....like the Huey. Its harder for them to fall out. They are more like...."window" gunners.... And the news seem to make clear that the SEAL fell out....and was later discovered "executed" (which to me says a few to the back of the head)....but it's possible he was shot prior to falling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 06 2002,18:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have not compared him to anything. But if you class the people you fight as one thing and determine that they are not lawful combatants, how the hell do you expect them to treat you in return? According to the Geneva convention? Get real. I am not saying that had a right to shoot him. I am not saying it is good that he did. What I AM saying is that it is not so strange that they did. See the difference?<span id='postcolor'> I bet that navy seal would love to be lock up in hot sunny cuba somewhere by a beach,other then dead.Geneva convention ,when have they follow it ,that's kinda saying " you must play by the rules,but the other side can break the rules anytime" . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rpc007 0 Posted March 6, 2002 the news says that but the Pentagon earlier today said on TV they arent sure of the circumstances of his death Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Scooby Posted March 6, 2002 Urban legend about soviets having grenades under their shirts having wires attached to pins of grenades? Atleast standard Finnish grenade couldnt be detonated only by pulling pin out with wire. You would have to have pin quite loose to be able to pull it out by wire. You need to twist and pull pin to get it out unless you have loosened it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Scooby Posted March 6, 2002 As far as I can reported there was incident reported by CNN where US soldiers had went into some school, etc where were taleban fighters. People had found bodies of dead Afghan soldiers who had arms tied and had been shot by US soldiers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Scooby @ Mar. 06 2002,21:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as I can reported there was incident reported by CNN where US soldiers had went into some school, etc where were taleban fighters. People had found bodies of dead Afghan soldiers who had arms tied and had been shot by US soldiers.<span id='postcolor'> I really think that is untrue,because if it was true it would be on every european tv,newspaper,other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted March 6, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Scooby @ Mar. 06 2002,21:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Urban legend about soviets having grenades under their shirts having wires attached to pins of grenades?<span id='postcolor'> I saw an interview with a russian Hind gunner who was there, he was the one I heard this from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
