Sound editing - implemented limit or bug?

[Makake 0]

I am into soundmod editing since the first soundmods appeared for arma. Whenever I tried a released one I found some passages where I thought, that could be done better (in quality and quantity) for my personal use and ArmA experience. Weelll. so far... so good.

So I used chammy's mod as a basis for my own. Implemented lots of new sounds from other mods and sources. Cut them properly and tried to adjust sound volume. Built them into my config and extended it. This was where I first encountered massive problems:

1) Whenever I used an editor to do other than cutting and fade out of samples, means for example "increase volume", "doppler fx" and alike and saved back to wss, it would sound alright in the editor. But when played in ArmA they (for example samples of loudened gunshots) would sound like being silenced. With a faint "piff"-sound. Can't describe it better. When saved as *.wav they would be played as in the correct loudness, but somehow, loudness would not fade with distance to the source. Is there additional information stored within a *wss-file? I don't get it. Since this happens also when I decreased loudness and saved as *wav I can't see how I possibly alter volume without destroying my samples for use with Arma. Seems I need a proper editor for *.wss files ! ? I might as well search for that

2) Another one. Very strange bug, it seems. But maybe a limitation? Here it comes...

Now that my mod and config had grown to some size I encounter a problem where samples would not be played anymore in ArmA. I implemented several (up to 4 or 5) samples to one effect each. For example the impact of an M136 would have 4 to 5 different explosion sounds edited by me to increase randomnes and make sound experience more immersive.

Since this is done for most explosion / impact sources my config is rather huge.

It started when I realized my M16 did not have a reload anymore . Whenever I used the action, no sound was played. A look into my config told me, however, that everything should be ok. The right path to right sample with all parameters in shape. What had gone wrong? I tried to copy the sample again into the folder - no effect. I used another, alternative sample for reload - no effect. Then I used, as a test, a reload sound from an AK (I knew it still worked, bc. I heard it played a testrun before) - the AK reload would not be played, too. Wow! I copied my backup version back and started Arma. Now my M16 AND my AK would not have a reload sound! I tried and tried and found a "solution": it worked for me when I deleted the config lines and let Arma use its vanilla sounds first. Then I renamed the original sample and put it back, changing config lines accordingly to the new name of the sample. It worked for the AK and the M16, but only to see that now FFAR shots were somehow deleted (they were played before). Did the same as with the FFARs, now CH29 and S8 impacts would not be played anymore.

Well, seems whenever I fix a sample it pulls the strings on another one. Is this a bug or a limitation within ArmA. Let's say, it can't handle more than, well, 100 samples or whatever. And maybe ArmA writes down samples it does not like into a list and makes my work hopeless. Any clues ?

3) Another question aside: does Arma come along with samples that have different KHz? Most samples are recorded in 22, but some are 11. Since I use samples from different sources this might be a hint to solve some problems. But I never noticed any problems, though. Arma plays both types correctly

Please, help me

[RN Malboeuf 12]

I guess you might want to proceed in elder topic

Sound configuration

[Makake 0]

no, actually not.

If you had read what I wrote you would have realized this.

I don't want to know WHAT these variables do, but why there seems to be difference between wav and wss files (or my editor is complete crap). Why there is no fade of volume (even with low settings).

AND: I would like to have an answer for both of these encountered "bugs" or whatever that is

edit: you wrote a comment afterwards on your thread. I have read this. well, thanks for that. I shall look for that editor. If someone can help me with these "bugs". This bothers me the most, bc. it stops my progress in editing my soundmod. That would be great

[RN Malboeuf 12]

wav and ogg sounds are supported by the engine but sound fade only worrs with wss. Fact known since ofp

[ANZACSAS Steven 393]

Makake,

One reason some problems may arise is if the soundfile is a stereo sound.These will give a non directional and seemingly non-responsive sound ingame.

I have been using .wav files for years (and so have many ppl) and always had the doppler effect happn.(sound fadein fadeout/rise and fall in percieved pitch as it goes past you).Aswell as the new arma sound engine bonus -sounds are blocked/muted behind large objects.:D

I have the same problems with some sounds are good untill there ingame or vice versa.

What i have learnt is that sounds can be recorded/sampled using hundreds of different ways and there for hundreds of different game engines ,so really  it's amazing how they are so compatable.

My brother, who uses my sound edits has only just recently said that he does'nt have ffar sounds sometimes.

Which as you said makes absolutely no sense.I hav'nt edited many sounds at all really so the problem may be new in ARMA and not in the expansion's you've made.

An "ingame" sound Editor would be a gift from the gods.Even if you had to run it as a mod just to do editing.

And finally your Sound mod sounds excellent m8,I'd download that m8.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]I have been using .wav files for years (and so have many ppl) and always had the doppler effect happn.(sound fadein fadeout/rise and fall in percieved pitch as it goes past you).Aswell as the new arma sound engine bonus -sounds are blocked/muted behind large objects.:D

hmm... what is the reason for wss souund format then? it's just around wav size and quality, and if there's no advantage in wss what's the reason to convert sound to wss at all ?

[Makake 0]

@bdfy: good question. now what's right? fading only with wss files or wav a better choice?

@ANZACSAS Steve: now I understand you this way: it's better to use wav and ogg? Then why do all the soundmods use wss? and why are they 90% stereo samples? have to test this.

I think I can't give you the mod, at least I can't release it officially since I use samples from all other mods combined. Some of these samples got edited/altered by me, but they are not my "property" nonetheless (they are not property of them editors, too. But some might point out and whine bc. of "copyright issues"). let's see what I can do. Maybe you can help me solving the problems if I send you a demo...

Seems it's Arma related. But is it bug or feature?

edit: maybe no stereo wss. It's my editor's fault

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]and why are they 90% stereo samples?

stereo wss ? I always thought wav file have to mono for proper wav2wss conversion. And definately i never saw stereo sound files in ofp...

Anyway i'm far not an expert in ofp/arma sound editing, but till i opened this topic i was almost sure how it's works...  I guess the best solution is to make simple addon with wss/wav files and listen how they are working

[Makake 0]

seems I have to stick with this and limit my sound samples for each event. A lot of work to (un)do. Already deleted some. That helps.

But I can't get FFAR and other rocketpod missiles firing sounds to work. Whatever I do, no sample is played.

Sometimes, ArmA sucks so hard. And the official biki and documentation won't help either

Maybe it's related to my 1.09b installation. I don't recall these error s before. But somehow they got "inherited", since they persist even when I start 1.08 with ArmaLauncher

[Maddmatt 1]

Quote[/b] ]I have been using .wav files for years (and so have many ppl) and always had the doppler effect happn.(sound fadein fadeout/rise and fall in percieved pitch as it goes past you).Aswell as the new arma sound engine bonus -sounds are blocked/muted behind large objects.:D

hmm... what is the reason for wss souund format then? it's just around wav size and quality, and if there's no advantage in wss what's the reason to convert sound to wss at all ?

.wss should give better performance with hardware accelerated sound. It should always be used for sound effects.

[ANZACSAS Steven 393]

Maddmatt, thanks m8.

I always knew there was a reason for wss files but i or anyone else i know don't use accelerated hardware so we never knew the limitations of wav. files.

Makake,

I'd be more than happy to have a look and listen to your "private" soundmod.

PM me a link.

Thanx everyone.  

[Makake 0]

Will do, but may take some time.

Here comes another (frustrating) one:

I began from scratch. I thought "Well, why not starting over, this time editing all samples (correct fade-out etc.) and renaming them properly, copying them into the correct folders, new config, and so on".

So I used Goldwave as Audioeditor and Stoppelhopsers WSS Converter to convert wav to wss files.

First lines worked correctly (Bulletbase commands, hit sounds & ricochets). Then I edited impact sounds for 24a2 guns and 20 up to 30mm. Tested them again in ArmA.

WTF? They sounded totally distorted!? I even emphasized equal 22KHz for all samples...

I gave up for today. But copied samples and config lines of the "working ricochet sounds" (were tested, look above! into the folders of my previous version of the mod. CPO'ed it and tested the results, eagerly awaiting some improvements.

WTF again!? Those working ricochet sounds would sound distorted and some silenced in here. Does Arma play sounds relative to others loaded in the whole mod? I can't explain what happened. They should work fine here as well. No errors in syntax or whatever, just distorted without any reason.

Why? They worked in the other mod, why not here? I mean, it's the same lines and same samples. And they sound VERY "different" in the two modfolders they're put into.

If it's my fault I can't recognize it. But I suppose it's ArmA crappy way of handling things

[ANZACSAS Steven 393]

I always use 44khz sound files and never really had a problem.

I have decoded .wws files before that were from arma and when decoded the speed it is played back at is x10 or someting.I tried to slow them down with software but to no avail.

Arma has a descent sound engine for the cost of fps.

But, there isn't many parameters to play with in the cfg's so it starts to make it very tricky to manipulate.

In the OFP days i used to have some big headaches trying to do sounds but these days in arma i dont have that many thank god.Although by now i have been toying with the game for around 5 years so i should've learn't something by now.

Try just doing the sounds that you think need replacing the most and no more that 2 at a time. It takes time and the last thing you want is to burn out and leave you installation unplayable for yourself.

Keep a backup copy somewhere thats not complete but a 100% workable version of your work to a certain point so you have something to fall back on.

If your not going to release it and you dont run a soundcard ,leave the files in .wav format to help minimise the chance of format change headaches and bugs.

I don't really know what to say without seeing the cfg and or hearing the problem.

If you want send it i''l have a captain cook at it (meaning-look)

[Maddmatt 1]

First lines worked correctly (Bulletbase commands, hit sounds & ricochets). Then I edited impact sounds for 24a2 guns and 20 up to 30mm. Tested them again in ArmA.

WTF? They sounded totally distorted!? I even emphasized equal 22KHz for all samples...

Are you using the BIS wss tools or old OFP/community ones?

Use the official ArmA tools. There are sound tools included.

Old tools may not work well, there might have been changes to the wss format for ArmA. The official tools should do the job properly.