Elevation (Not Wandage)

[{9thInf}GunnyMeyer 0]

So i've been playing for a few months and i find myself pretty good at judging distances. Guess what!!! That has no meaning at all in marksmanship in this game. I always have to just fire and watch where my rounds land due to the varying height that i fire from in respect to the enemy position.

I say we should have adjustable sights, just like Joint Operations if any of you guys have played that. Just have it so that one button brings it up by 100s of yards/meters and the other brings it down. This is really a problem with the AT weapons such as the AT4/m136. With that you have the big post in the way so you have to just guess... I'm pretty sure that the sight is adjustable, along with the smaller peephole for the extra long distances (where i fire from). This should be incorporated to every weapons system in the game whether it be vehicle mounted or hand held (Besides the pistol of course).

What are your guy's feelings on this?

[max power 21]

Some of the weapons do have an elevation adjustment tied to its zoom. The SPR, for example. Also, if you figure out where the rounds land in 1/8ths of a mil dot, like they do in real life, the american sights are just as useful as the Dragunov.

[NonWonderDog 0]

I'm not really sure it's worth it to make the rifle sights adjustable. I can see some merit in switching between diopters, but I can't imagine that people really fiddle with AK-style sights in combat (how could anyone possibly want to set the sights on an AK-74 to 600 meters anyway?). I also think the chances of BIS adding animations and multiple aiming angles to every weapon are pretty slim.

Elevation adjustment on the scopes would be nice, though. The range carets on the PSO-1 reticule are really supposed to be for 1100 meters, 1200 meters, and 1300 meters, only really calibrated with the elevation set to the maximum 1000 meters (never mind that the SVD can't shoot accurately out to anywhere near 1000 meters). If we have time to set up, we really shouldn't have to use any holdover. Mildot scopes would then become as spectacularly confusing as they are in real life, though, and I'd probably need to print off a range card to use one. Not that I'm any use with one in the game as is.

In any case, I would really like to be able to use the M203's shiny new ladder sight at ranges other than 150 meters. Some kind of elevation adjustment for that would be very welcome. At least we should be able to click between the 50, 100, 150, 200, and 250 meter marks; ideally we should be able to hold a button down and tilt the rifle to any range we want. Of course, the 40 mm grenade trajectory would have to be absolutely perfect for that to work out.

Actually, could that first bit be modded in? A couple duplicate firing modes for the M203 that have the rifle tilted at different angles when aimed?

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

The Sniper scopes need the elevation adjustment, not the assault rifles sights.

All very well saying use the mill dots, but at 2000mt, the target is usually 3/4 way down the thick end of the cross hair where no mill dots exist and the thickness of the hair = the thickness of the person your trying to hit ( using M107 ).

[shataan 1]

It would be nice if the ACOG had adjustable elevation. But, I`d be happy for at least an inscope Distance To target meter=range finder.

Aimpoints are for short range engagements so they don`t require adjustable elevation.  But it would add a new angle to the ACOGs and Sniper scopes for sure.

Joint Ops only had this in the Sniper Scopes. NOT the assault rifles cause they only had aimpoints. However, Novalogics Delta Force 2 DID have ajustable elevation for the ACOG scopes.  They removed ACOGs from their games totally after DF 2. And that is when their games went to total crap.  

Accept for the Quakers, they loved Nova games after Nova started to quake their games out. Figures.  Fyi.

[frederf 0]

Quote[/b] ]I always have to just fire and watch where my rounds land due to the varying height that i fire from in respect to the enemy position.

I'm confused what you mean here. If you are varying heights with respect to the target then even with adjustable elevation you will still miss your first shots since the elevation knob is calibrated for level engagements.

[o3oDeath 0]

As far as long range ballistics, windage isn't needed if there is no wind in the game. Elevation does play a factor and I don't think it would be too hard to had the ability to change the elevation. Sniping is where this applies the most but with the m203 I can effectively hit a 450M target with it as it is already. When the ladder sight is on the upper reciever of a weapon you actually run into the problem of the barrel blocking your target view. I have always used the ladder sight mounted on the side of the weapon when issued an M203.

[Ni7suj 0]

I do agree that sight adjustment for sniper rifles is a must. I have played Delta Force - Joint Ops the entire 8 or so years and if some of the game mechanics there were applied to ArmA, it would be very solid. Of course the DF/JO series is more arcade than ArmA, but it still has so many good ideas through out the years.

[{9thInf}GunnyMeyer 0]

Well I just want elevation in the game. I do believe it's needed on assault rifles seeing how I tend to fight the enemy where i think i'll be at the advantage cause I aim and many of the ppl I've faced just shoot to shoot.

[Spectre-63 0]

Well I just want elevation in the game. I do believe it's needed on assault rifles seeing how I tend to fight the enemy where i think i'll be at the advantage cause I aim and many of the ppl I've faced just shoot to shoot.

Why don't you do a poll of guys returning from Iraq and ask them how many times they adjust their M-16/M-4's elevation while in combat.

It's simply not done...fiddling with your zero is a good way to wind up with an inability to accurately engage your target at all.

[Commando84 0]

maybe on sniper rifles but other weapons that arent really needed.

maybe some mods will figure out something but it would just complicate the game to much imo.

[Gisen 0]

Why don't you do a poll of guys returning from Iraq and ask them how many times they adjust their M-16/M-4's elevation while in combat.

It's simply not done...fiddling with your zero is a good way to wind up with an inability to accurately engage your target at all.

Our rifles (UK) have adjustable elevation wheels for various ranges which we ARE supposed to adjust in combat. I don't know if the US sights are the same but given that these are necessary to shoot with any accuracy beyond 300m (200m in some cases) they should have also.

These adjustments are NOT the same as the ones used to zero the weapon.

[NonWonderDog 0]

Right, no one's saying you should whip out a screwdriver and change the zero.

The M16 carry handle sights do have elevation and windage knobs on them, though. The M16 sights also have two diopters that you can flip between, one for long range and one for short range. You're supposed to set the rear sight elevation to minimum and flip up the (quite large) short range aperture for CQB, while you use the (quite small) long range aperture and adjust elevation for ranges between 300 and 800 meters. I doubt that soldiers in the Army ever actually use the elevation knob in combat, though. I mean, how often do grunts fire at targets beyond 300 meters? Some M16 sight pictures here: http://www.armystudyguide.com/content....e.shtml

The sights on the MP5 have three or four apertures on a wheel; each corresponds to a different range. Pictures here: http://www.hkpro.com/sights.htm

The AK and PK use tangent sights; you have to turn a thumbscrew to move the rear sight pivot up and down. Same as on a hunting rifle or a BB gun. They're fairly inaccurate, but so are the guns.

The M249 uses fairly standard machine gun peep sights. I can't explain them, so here's a picture: http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m249/how-to-set-the-sights-on-.shtml

All of these would be nice to have in ArmA, but I don't think it will ever happen. Not only would they require new animations and new iron sights code, but the bullet trajectories would have to be perfect in order for the ranges to match up. The only iron sight elevation adjustments that deserve to be in are the ones on the machine guns, but the MP5 sights and the M16 diopters are the only ones that could be easily implemented. We'd just need an adjusting sights animation and a new gun model to be swapped in.

Elevation adjustment would still be very welcome on scopes, but I just know I'd lose track of the setting unless we could read the (animated) knobs.

[Spectre867 0]

The M16 carry handle sights do have elevation and windage knobs on them, though.  The M16 sights also have two diopters that you can flip between, one for long range and one for short range.  You're supposed to set the rear sight elevation to minimum and flip up the (quite large) short range aperture for CQB, while you use the (quite small) long range aperture and adjust elevation for ranges between 300 and 800 meters.  I doubt that soldiers in the Army ever actually use the elevation knob in combat, though.  I mean, how often do grunts fire at targets beyond 300 meters?

Almost right on that...the larger sight is for night-time combat...we don't really use the sights in CQB - half the time you are short-stocking anyways.

Most all units nowdays have some form of RCO anyways, but you're correct that the elevation/windage knobs aren't really used in a combat situation.

I do see the reasoning for wanting adjustable sights, specifically with the sniper rifles, but it seems too hard to implement given the current engine and wouldn't really be relevant with the exception of those few sniper rifles. (I don't know about what the Army uses, but the Marine Corps ACOGs are BZOed and then you don't touch the sights after that; you simply kentucky windage your shots onto the target if you're engaging from that far of a distance that you don't hit with the first shot anyway.)

I'm not sure how the ballistics work in ArmA, but I do think effort would be better focused on things like working body armor/more realistic wounds or even getting the tracers right Just my two cents though