Strange sound issue

[daikan 1]

i'm having this strange sound issue since day 1: i noticed that the bullet impact and ricochet sounds are always being played back mono, so you cant judge the direction as opposed to every other sound source in the game. this can be very confusing when under fire. it is really strange in that it only affects the sounds mentioned above. every other sound is played back directionally without problem.

i never saw this reported here, so i just wanted to ask if anyone is having the same problem and how to possibly get a fix. or at least tell that me that this is the way it's supposed to be (which would suck imho).

the game runs fine in every other aspect.

my soundcard is a creative audigy 2 and i tried switching hw acceleration and EAX support on/off without any effect.

thx for any input.

[daikan 1]

bump

[Nicolas Eymerich 0]

I've a different problem.

The first shot is always "played" in mono.

And yes.

I've your same sound card too.

Have you tried to update yuor driver?

There shlould be a new versione of octobere (or november) of the past year.

[daikan 1]

i refrain from updating my soundcard drivers because last time i did it it screwed up everything....

however, if somebody can *confirm* that a driver update will fix this i will gladly try.

[daikan 1]

even with 1.05 the bug is still there....

[daikan 1]

one final attempt to get more feedback on this one.

can't believe i'm the only one having this problem..

[daikan 1]

the lack of any feedback from the community makes me believe that this is really a 'feature' and not a bug... or then maybe i have a truly unique sound setup...

so please apologize for bringing this up again... but i still have no clue what the problem could be. and it's getting more and more annoying...

i just updated my soundcard drivers with the latest version but the problem still persists. even re-installing OpenAL API or using various soundmods hasn't helped.

i have to admit that i'm not exactly sure whether the sound fx i'm referring to is really the bullet impact or ricochet, it could also be the supersonic crack or something... this or that, it remains confusing and keeps insulting my ears.

[Col.Flanders 0]

I have the same soundcard but I'm not really sure about this whole 'mono' thing you're talking about. It could be because I use fairly modest desktop speakers though. I definitely hear two types of sound when firing is concerned. There are the sounds of gunshots and then there is the distinctive "crack". I think the cracking sound is either a richochet or as you mentioned the supersonic bullet sound. To me it sounds like a bullet whizzing through foliage but I've often heard it in desert terrain.

Not sure about the monotone bit you mention. You mean it comes through left and right and not one or the other?

[Col.Flanders 0]

I think that maybe what you're experiencing (being mono) is the sonic boom of gunfire and because of the nature of what those sounds are, you wouldn't hear them from their source. Their source would be the rounds themselves and more often than not, right on top of you.

I've often heard those sounds and come to think of it I can't think of noticing them off in the distance somewhere.

I dunno...my 2c

[daikan 1]

Not sure about the monotone bit you mention. You mean it comes through left and right and not one or the other?

yes, it comes out of both speakers, everytime. no matter where you are and where the shooting is coming from.

when people fire i can also hear a distinctive 'shot' followed by a rather high-pitched and hollow sounding 'crack' afterwards. the 'crack' is basicly what i'm referring to. it can vary in volume but remains monophonic at all times.

maybe i can get a soundsample done later today, just to clarify what i'm talking about...

my speaker setup is absolutely top notch (i'm using near-field studio monitors) so maybe the problem is more obvious in that situation.

[daikan 1]

I think that maybe what you're experiencing (being mono) is the sonic boom of gunfire and because of the nature of what those sounds are, you wouldn't hear them from their source. Their source would be the rounds themselves and more often than not, right on top of you.

i was thinking about that as well. but basic reasoning tells me that no matter if the sound source is sub- or supersonic it carries some directional information.

and since the sound engine doesn't model any reverberation effects this directional information is a lot more obvious than in RL, which in turn helps improve overall situational awareness and immersion...

[Spazmo44 0]

Daikan,

I think I get the same thing, I have the same soundcard and when it comes to gunfire I have no sense of direction, in ofp I could pinpoint a sniper a mile away as soon as he fired. Vehicle sounds are ok. I'm currently relying on sight to discern the direction of bullets, watching for tracers or impacts, bit of a pain.

[daikan 1]

ok, here are some sound samples i made during the game which should illustrate the problem... they were made with @ModWarSound soundpack installed but the distinctive 'cracking' sound is the same as in the original:

soundsample 1

soundsample 2

soundsample 3

soundsample 4

you should be able to identify the sound i'm talking about from these soundbites because it's the only one being played back as mono (= left & right channels equally) while the source was either left or right from the current position...

[zinc 0]

I have all the latest drivers for my soundcard and I use headphones which make the sound issues more noticable.

Has anyone noticed a sound issue when walking sideways?

It pans right when walking left and vice versa, it sounds like someone else is walking behind at your 8 or 4 oclock position. I don't think walking sideways should be directional, I don't need the added paranoia in MP thanks!

Going back to the thread topic, it does seem hard to pinpoint the direction of the bullet 'crack', surely that should be directional based on the angle a player is stood in relation to it?

[daikan 1]

Has anyone noticed a sound issue when walking sideways?

It pans right when walking left and vice versa, it sounds like someone else is walking behind at your 8 or 4 oclock position. I don't think walking sideways should be directional, I don't need the added paranoia in MP thanks!

lol yeah i noticed that as well. maybe the sound source is lagging behind in respect to the actual position.. dunno. why not file a bug?

Quote[/b] ]Going back to the thread topic, it does seem a lot harder to pinpoint the direction of gunfire. Especially with the 'mono' bullet 'crack', surely that should be directional based on the angle a player is stood in relation to it?

i'm really thankful to hear that other people have the same issue. i was beginning to question my aural perception

what i find most annoying is that a tiny detail like this can have such a massive impact in messing up my situational awareness.. too bad really.

that makes me want to advertise my filed bug. if you're affected please vote for it. maybe it will get some attention...

[zinc 0]

lol yeah i noticed that as well. maybe the sound source is lagging behind in respect to the actual position.. dunno. why not file a bug?

No, I'm positive it's not for that reason. Otherwise, moving forward and backward would produce the same result.

It's almost as though they are calling 2 separate routines, one when moving forward/backwards, and the other when moving sideways L/R.

BTW - I would 'sign up' and vote for the bug, I'd also file one.. If only the 'sign up' link was working! Anyone got a url to the sign up page?

[walker 0]

Hi daikan

The crack sound is a sonic boom of the bullet. You can hear it in two forms. The sound oocurs as the bullet passes close by you. You can only hear it if the bullet is passig by near to you.

The lower volume ones are to your side or high above your head; say no more than 50m and may be aimed at your squad mates those will be slightly directional.

The higher volume CRACK is right over you head inches or perhaps feet away. If you hear that get in cover or hit the dirt. The crack comes before the shot sound and will give you a sense of distance of those firing on you. You get direction from the shot not the crack; the crack is the sonic boom of the bullet right next to you.

Kind Regards walker

[daikan 1]

The crack sound is a sonic boom of the bullet. You can hear it in two forms. The sound oocurs as the bullet passes close by you. You can only hear it if the bullet is passig by near to you.

ok thanks for the information, but how do you know for sure? don't get me wrong, it's very probable that these cracks are the modeled sonic booms - but i've never been under fire in real life so how could i know how it sounds....?

Quote[/b] ]The lower volume ones are to your side or high above your head; say no more than 50m and may be aimed at your squad mates those will be slightly directional.

if the cracks really are the sonic booms i expect them to carry some directional information as well. instead they don't. they are always 100% monophonic, which to me doesn't sound 'right'.

i understand the directional information received by these sonic booms can be very misleading when used to judge the direction of the originating weapon as the sonic boom is basicly a soundwave trailing the bullet in a conical shape. nonetheless they help you estimate where the bullets are passing your position, which can be also very useful.

could be that BIS left out stereo effects for sonic booms on purpose because it would involve too much calculation. however, it would be nice to get some official explanation...

[Kaune 0]

I can't really comment on the issue of bullet origins because of the fact that I still have to set up my speakers in optimal positions in my new small room and I also don't have working headphones. The thing that has been bothering me for years now in OFP and to my dismay in ARMA, and is the exact same thing as Zinc posted, is that if your in a chopper and fire the left rocket/missile the sound comes from the right speaker and also vice versa. Although I haven't spent much time here in this forum this is the first time that I have seen someone else with this problem.

[zinc 0]

I can't really comment on the issue of bullet origins because of the fact that I still have to set up my speakers in optimal positions in my new small room   and I also don't have working headphones. The thing that has been bothering me for years now in OFP and to my dismay in ARMA, and is the exact same thing as Zinc posted, is that if your in a chopper and fire the left rocket/missile the sound comes from the right speaker and also vice versa. Although I haven't spent much time here in this forum this is the first time that I have seen someone else with this problem.

Interesting, I just checked what you mentioned and you're right. I think this qualifies as a definate bug.

If you turn towards the sound source while piloting using the numeric keys, the sound is correct when you fire a rocket on the side you're viewing. But, as soon as you face forward immediately after firing the sound pans to the opposite speaker which is wrong.

That's bugged on both right and left sides.

Edit: I've submitted a report to the Arma bug tracker about this issue, so hopefully it will be fixed in the future.

[ACF 0]

The 'crack' is the shockwave of the supersonic bullet missing you and, yes, it ought to be directional in the sense that it should reach one ear before the other. But, although you might be able to perceive whether it went to one side of your head or the other, it wouldn't tell you where it came from.

The best analogy I can dream up is that you're sitting blindfolded in a canoe at sea... If a noisy ship is moving past you, you should be able to judge its position. If, however, the ship is silent (or you're blindfolded and earplugged) the only thing you would sense is it's wake passing under you (ship = bullet, bow wave = shockwave in this scenario). The vertical motion you feel wouldn't relate much to the position or direction of the ship but you'd know something had missed you.

On that basis, I'm happy that the crack doesn't and shouldn't contribute to the pinpointing of gunfire. It's the sound of the weapon firing that does this - the 'thump' as it is/was known in the British Army.

Going back to the real world of ArmA... I did a test: a squad on a 'Never Fire' waypoint against a single rifleman/sniper/MG'er on the opposite side of a valley with me in the middle as a captive. As I'd expect, I heard the cracks before the thumps.

The thumps & impacts (when you can hear them) are stereo/directional - they are sounds that occur at the positions of the events. The cracks do seem to be equally balanced (mono). I'm guessing that they are sounds 'played' at player's location, triggered by nearby bullet objects. I don't think it's a bug, just a compromise because you can't attach the crack sound to the bullet itself (because the bullet wouldn't know where to play it). As Daikan suggested, there's also a performance advantage if cracks don't have to be computed for AI.

The thumps are the key to pinpointing the firers and they do seem to be placed correctly. I think the difficulty issue is because ArmA does a much better job than OFP at damping distant sounds; the gunshots are simply harder to place because it's harder to hear them.

[Kaune 0]

My sound setup:

X-fi XM with driver 2 09 0007

Game mode

Stereo Xpand

No SVM

5.1 selected

Logitech x-620

If for some reason It seems like I am not making any sense it's probably because I am still disorientated while I was in-game. For me, if I turn to whichever side (i.e. left) is about to fire, the firing sound comes out of the back speakers, and if I keep looking left and firing again so that the right side fires, it comes out of the left speaker.

While they are sorting out bugs they might as well fix this for the game that was responsible for their fame.

[zinc 0]

On that basis, I'm happy that the crack doesn't and shouldn't contribute to the pinpointing of gunfire.

I agree, but we're not really attempting to discover the position of the soldier who fired the bullet from the super sonic 'crack', simply that the 'mono' bullet 'crack' should have some direction in respect to where you are in relation to it. That would not give away a soldiers position at all, but it would add to the game atmosphere and immersion experience.

Sorry, but fixed 2D sounds have no place in a 3D game enviroment!

I regularly hear mono 'cracks' in MP which are quite a distance away, I 'should' be able to determine the direction of those at least.

We regularly get the airforce from RAF Valley on Anglesey breaking the sound barrier at sea, when I hear that boom I know exactly which direction it came from.

[daikan 1]

[...] we're not really attempting to discover the position of the soldier who fired the bullet from the super sonic 'crack', simply that the 'mono' bullet 'crack' should have some direction in respect to where you are in relation to it. That would not give away a soldiers position at all, but it would add to the game atmosphere and immersion experience.

Sorry, but fixed 2D sounds have no place in a 3D game enviroment!

well said and 100% agreed.

those mono sounds simply don't sound right as they are now. and they destroy a lot of immersion.

[Kaune 0]

In achieving stereo sound for bullet cracking could the modding community do this or has BIS have to modify the sound engine.