Machine Gun

[zyros 0]

I think it would be great for the makers to add at least 1 more MG. My choice would be the ((Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW), M249 Light Machine Gun)) to start with.

Here it is:

http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfil....ocument

I think the M60 is great, but outclassed in performance and weight, even though weight has no bearing in this game a Machine Gunner can run as fast as a guy with a Bizon, (me thinks). They added weapos like the syter, and the g36 wich are modern assault rifles, why wouldnt a modern Machine gun be warrented.

Anyways I just think it would be awesome, granted I am a MG fanatic, Favorite weapon, But I think I should not be able to run as fast, as I have already mentioned, as someone who has a much lighter weapon.

[Shabadu 0]

I always wondered, do you carry an mg that way. I mean in ofp the soldiers all carry the mg's the same way they carry a lighter gun.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ Jan. 23 2002,16:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I always wondered, do you carry an mg that way. I mean in ofp the soldiers all carry the mg's the same way they carry a lighter gun.<span id='postcolor'>

Typically not, Well, I assume ya could if walking real slow, and for short time, or standing still But typically machine gun is a base of fire weapon in a prone position. meaning it is moved up in sections/sectors to support and or defend. It can be taken in squad operation but again as base of fire Machine guns are notoriously heavy than other hand held weapons.

[Shabadu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zyros @ Jan. 23 2002,16:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I always wondered, do you carry an mg that way. I mean in ofp the soldiers all carry the mg's the same way they carry a lighter gun.<span id='postcolor'>

Typically not, Well, I assume ya could if walking real slow, and for short time, or standing still But typically machine gun is a base of fire weapon in a prone position. meaning it is moved up in sections/sectors to support and or defend. It can be taken in squad operation but again as base of fire Machine guns are notoriously heavy than other hand held weapons.<span id='postcolor'>

That's what I thought. I really have lost the whole pretence that this game is realistic. The only realistic thing in it is the fact that you die easily. I mean since when does a barrel bounce?

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I always wondered, do you carry an mg that way. I mean in ofp the soldiers all carry the mg's the same way they carry a lighter gun.<span id='postcolor'>

Typically not, Well, I assume ya could if walking real slow, and for short time, or standing still But typically machine gun is a base of fire weapon in a prone position. meaning it is moved up in sections/sectors to support and or defend. It can be taken in squad operation but again as base of fire Machine guns are notoriously heavy than other hand held weapons.<span id='postcolor'>

That's what I thought. I really have lost the whole pretence that this game is realistic. The only realistic thing in it is the fact that you die easily. I mean since when does a barrel bounce?<span id='postcolor'>

I Agree with ya, but this game is as real as it get, but no to stray to much of my topic it does have certain realistic short comings, but I think that these were done to abide to the mass population, remeber many people wont buy/play a game if its to realistic, realism basically means hard work in a gaming scenario but to me its brings the greatest amount of satisfaction. One thing That I would definetely change is the transition between when the weapon is near the hip to when it goes to Iron sights, there should be some sort of smooth transition, not just a cutscene transaction. Another realistic factor: ya noticed that all the dedicated servers have that rediculous crosshair, (at least the ones that I've played in) I assume they can remove it after all their are no crosshairs in real world, just scopes & iron sights.

Thanks

[Frizbee 0]

If you watch videos of troops training or on patrol, generally they carry the heavy and General purpose machine guns across their chests or stomachs... instead of pointing out in front of them all the time.

To fire though they usually drop prone or too their knees and rest the bi/ tripod on the ground or some other support.

[Soon2B 2nd LT 0]

I've made an m249 addon. It uses the PK model but I gave it as realistic characteristics as possible. I love it. I use it all the time.

It's actually a modification of STEELE's m249 with some tweaking because his wasn't realistic at all. If you'd like I could email it to you.

mine has the same hit power as the m16 since they use the same ammo, realistic 725 rpm, the m16 iron sites since they most closely resemble the SAW's, and new sounds (from RED's weapon pack)

I too wait for an official m249 addon. But until then mine will do.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frizbee @ Jan. 24 2002,09:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you watch videos of troops training or on patrol, generally they carry the heavy and General purpose machine guns across their chests or stomachs... instead of pointing out in front of them all the time.

To fire though they usually drop prone or too their knees and rest the bi/ tripod on the ground or some other support.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah I watched those clips aswell, everyone seems to hate the fact that the MG slows them down a bit, But when the s**t hits the fan, they all look at him.

Thanks for your input.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Soon2B 2nd LT @ Jan. 24 2002,14:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've made an m249 addon.  It uses the PK model but I gave it as realistic characteristics as possible.  I love it.  I use it all the time.

It's actually a modification of STEELE's m249 with some tweaking because his wasn't realistic at all.  If you'd like I could email it to you.

mine has the same hit power as the m16 since they use the same ammo, realistic 725 rpm, the m16 iron sites since they most closely resemble the SAW's, and new sounds (from RED's weapon pack)

I too wait for an official m249 addon.  But until then mine will do.<span id='postcolor'>

cool, ya made an add-on, The server has to have it in order for me to use it , (I believe) So I dont think i can use it other than Playing single missions or campaign, which I never do. But I would like to check it out, When YA can e-mail it to Zzyros@yahoo.com.

Have ya ever wondered why they dont make another MG, Its not Like the saw is too modern or a prototype relatively speaking. I have asked codemaster & BI but have never gotten a response.

Thanks again

[christophercles 0]

BECAUSE zyros, they have to spend thier time making USEFULL things.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BECAUSE zyros, they have to spend thier time making USEFULL things.<span id='postcolor'>

Where you being sacractic, because if you were; then let me formally reply:

Useful could mean a lot of things, but may not mean the same to you or I. Let me set some examples.

Some people think that a zodiac w/outboard engine is "useful", while some consider it a rubber raft that has no usefulness. Some users feel that an additional t-90 is "useful", others say that t-90 cloesly resembles t-80 so it wouldnt be "useful". Some people want children and schools buses in this game so they can waste them. Read that in a post around here, Children, how is that a "useful" addition to the game. I Dont Know why children, but I'd waste my time asking them "why?" because its from thier perspective. There are certain things I consider "useful".....attention to realism/detail....bug fixes...the (SAW) is just what I consider an extra "useful" item, it's a standard MG in a fire team. And I have many more, oh yeah and wasting little (1 sentence), who dont even back up their counter statements, poster like you with my MG...hopefully it will be with the SAW soon.....

So back to my topic, I think that an additional M249 MG would not take to much time, and can be done realistically, and be formally added. Not that you care though, but it is the topic of this post.

Thanks

See ya in the field.

[KingBeast 0]

Why bother adding yet another American/NATO weapon when the russians dont even have their own Heavy MG? Its ridiculous that the ruskies should have to use the M2.

Not to mention that no one would bother using the M60 at all if the SAW was added.

[Soon2B 2nd LT 0]

The US army still uses the m60 and the m240 despite the existence and use of the m249.

I think the problem is that they didn't give the m60 very realistic characteristics in the game so the SAW would probably be just as good if not better.

My m249 addon is better than the default m60 I'd say.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why bother adding yet another American/NATO weapon when the russians dont even have their own Heavy MG? Its ridiculous that the ruskies should have to use the M2.

Not to mention that no one would bother using the M60 at all if the SAW was added.<span id='postcolor'>

There is the natural progression of weapons, there come a time where a more efficient weapons is entered into field service, and in due time replaces, the major role of its predacesar, It applies to everything. If givin the choice would you use the M60 or the M249SAW. So if that the case then replce the M60 with saw. It would be nice aswell to not be able to fire the MG 100 rounds at a time, That realistically should be stopped at least momentarilly to let the Barrel cool. But thats a little detail i think the'll never do.

Thanks

[KingBeast 0]

I just completely fail to see the point of adding that Mgun. Its not hugely better tha nthe M60, at least not in the perspective of the game. Only difference that wil lbe noticeable wil lbe a new sound and new model.

The previous weapons added actualyl had a use. The Bizon, being a silenced weapon for the russians. Something that was direly needed. Then the other weapons, perhaps not in the time fram but they all shared one similarity. Short ranged scopes.

Adding the SAW would be as "useful" as adding the Apache.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Soon2B 2nd LT @ Jan. 24 2002,18:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The US army still uses the m60 and the m240 despite the existence and use of the m249.  

I think the problem is that they didn't give the m60 very realistic characteristics in the game so the SAW would probably be just as good if not better.

My m249 addon is better than the default m60 I'd say.<span id='postcolor'>

What do ya think are some of the things not correctly taken into acount. I think one is the no overheat factor, another is that the gun has very little recoil. when firing from a standing postiion.

Hmmm. what else, Maybe the weight factor, or should i say the speed factor of the soldier carring the MG.

What do ya think about the way the gun is brought from iron sight to when the gun is to the side, It's a quick , cutscene transaction, I think it would be nice if they can change that (Look at Infiltartion, a UT MOD, for the best iron sight transitions & recoil factors & reloading scenes I've ever seen) can you e-amil it to me I've asked that in the previous post, my e-mail is there, I'd like to check out the gun.

Thanks

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just completely fail to see the point of adding that Mgun. Its not hugely better tha nthe M60, at least not in the perspective of the game. Only difference that wil lbe noticeable wil lbe a new sound and new model.

The previous weapons added actualyl had a use. The Bizon, being a silenced weapon for the russians. Something that was direly needed. Then the other weapons, perhaps not in the time fram but they all shared one similarity. Short ranged scopes.

Adding the SAW would be as "useful" as adding the Apache.<span id='postcolor'>

I can see your point very well, The game doesnt seem to model the charateriscs of the Weapons all that well, have you felt the recoil on the rifles (there is none, or to little in my opinion), If this game would take In effect weight and true charateristics of weapons than the SAW would be the MG of choice for a fire team, after all that's why it came about.

First and probably most important its lighter 15.6 lbs compared to the 18.75 lbs of the M60. Its shorter, although not by much, 40.7 to 42.4 Inches. Maximun range is no big difference the m60 barrels ahead 2.3 miles to the 2.23 of the SAW. Effective range the M60 has a 100 Meter advantage, 1000 to 1100 meters, again this was on purpose thus the reduction on weight and size. Here are two more major advantages 1. Rate of fire 775 rounds to the 550. The SAW abolutely spits it all out fast, & hard. The bullets are smaller, again by design. And the last advantage without getting into to many specs is the cost per replacemnt $4,087 for the SAW; $6,000 for the M60. Uncle sam likes that

But youre right in a way, the game will not take this into account, its the most realistic game I've ever played apart from Infiltration, who does take weapon characterstics into effect. (Whos engine I dont particulary like to much). OFP has its realistical shortcomings I agree aswell.

Thanks

[Satchel 0]

Before having a SAW,

how about some MG bipod support that is usable, means resting the bipod on the ground as an option.

You choose via the action menu or hot button if the bipot should be extractable or not. If Bipod support is choosen, the M60 should fire more precisely with less bullet spray, but also makes the gunner stationary with only a fixed angle range he can cover in the direction he´s facing, maybe 45° to both sides ~ 90° field of fire in the front arc.

On the visual aspect it would look better too, instead of having just another "half bakened" weapon.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Satchel @ Jan. 24 2002,22:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Before having a SAW,

how about some MG bipod support that is usable, means resting the bipod on the ground as an option.

You choose via the action menu or hot button if the bipot should be extractable or not. If Bipod support is choosen, the M60 should fire more precisely with less bullet spray, but also makes the gunner stationary with only a fixed angle range he can cover in the direction he´s facing, maybe 45° to both sides ~ 90° field of fire in the front arc.

On the visual aspect it would look better too, instead of having just another "half bakened" weapon.<span id='postcolor'>

An absolutely phenomenal Idea, I wish they would implement such an idea, The M60 is way to stable even in the prone posistion without the real bi-pods being implemented, I think, I may be wrong, the M60 when I originaly got the game had much more recoil, and After the patches it has subsided considerable.

In reference you your suggestion, Once the Bi-pods are deployed you should move in an arc like you stated but should be able to crawl to either direction to reset the pods haveing the same format as when you crawl sideways, Not of that easy way out stuff like swiveling. like The players to when you move in a circle on the floor.

Thanks, How can we make codemaster and/or Bi studious listen to us...buy 3/4 their stock holding...lol

[madmike 0]

Yeah that would be a usseful addon, there isnt anything that can be used for a good support weapon.

The M2 or something similar would be good if mounted on a tripod that has the user in the prone position.

The GPMG would also be ok to use.

One thing that buges me about the M2 is that it does the same damage as a 5.56 rifle, in reality it would leave a massive hole in you.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ Jan. 24 2002,22:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah that would be a usseful addon, there isnt anything that can be used for a good support weapon.

The M2 or something similar would be good if mounted on a tripod that has the user in the prone position.

The GPMG would also be ok to use.

One thing that  buges me about the M2 is that it does the same damage as a 5.56 rifle, in reality it would leave a massive hole in you.<span id='postcolor'>

A very good abservastion madmike, Indeed I have noticed that entry hole size like yourself, It seems that there are a lot of things that we could notice that are not realistic in this game and I think that for the most part they can be adjusted..The question is will they.

Thanks for your input

[Soon2B 2nd LT 0]

"One thing that buges me about the M2 is that it does the same damage as a 5.56 rifle, in reality it would leave a massive hole in you."

I disagree. The m2 can kill people in one hit in ofp, whereas the 5.56mm weapons take multiple hits. Also, in reality, the .50 cal wouldn't just leave a massive hole. It would tear you to pieces. A few .50 rounds into a person can leave them a pile of flesh. BIS probably didnt want to add in that extra gore and animations.

I also believe it is illegal to shoot people with .50 cal rounds because of the severe damage they can cause. They are made for antimaterial use, but when it comes down to it soldiers will disregard that rule. What I'm getting at is that technically you shouldn't be shooting people with the m2 in the first place.

[madmike 0]

Im not on about wanting the ofp men to be totaly remade to allow more damage to them, I just want the M2 to sound like an M2 rather than a clogged up vacum cleaner.

Also when the bullets from the M2 hit the ground the dust that comes up is the same hieght as the 5.56mm rounds.

I know these can be done without BIS making them ,it requires some editing.

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

Wow, people stop nitpicking the game will you...may I just stress that OFP is a game not a simulator. If BIS made it anymore realistic then the amount of extra time needed to be put into the engine, models and animations would have meant that you probably still wouldn't see it on the shop selves and there would be far more bugs. What makes me chuckle is that when this first came out every body was bowing down and worshiping what everybody was calling the difinitive in realistic gaming, a benchmark for military simulation. But now all you get is grones!

Anyway...back to topic. I would like to see the M249 SAW, but there is a real reason why BIS never added the M249 in the first place or as an addon. This is because the M249 didn't enter production within the US until 1992 (despite being the official Squad Automatic Weapon since 1982) due to a drawn-out period of testing and modification before requirements were satisfied. Up to that date the US armed forces used the M60 and Belgium Minimis. Since the game is set in 1985 BIS made the decision that is didn't fit in the game...which I can sympathise with.

'But added the Styr, Bizon and G36 and they are very modern weapons!' I hear you cry. That they are, however, I suspect that these are early VBS models (suspiciously released just before VBS was publically announced). They then added a OH-58D. I suspect they were working on an OH-58A or C for us, but after the release of the unrealistic weapons pack they upgraded it to an OH-58D for the added laser designator which could then be used in conjunction with the Hellfires.

Anyway, I expect we'll see an M249 with the VBS data disc that will be released later this year.

[zyros 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, people stop nitpicking the game will you...may I just stress that OFP is a game not a simulator. If BIS made it anymore realistic then the amount of extra time needed to be put into the engine, models and animations would have meant that you probably still wouldn't see it on the shop selves and there would be far more bugs. What makes me chuckle is that when this first came out every body was bowing down and worshiping what everybody was calling the difinitive in realistic gaming, a benchmark for military simulation. But now all you get is grones!

Anyway...back to topic. I would like to see the M249 SAW, but there is a real reason why BIS never added the M249 in the first place or as an addon. This is because the M249 didn't enter production within the US until 1992 (despite being the official Squad Automatic Weapon since 1982) due to a drawn-out period of testing and modification before requirements were satisfied. Up to that date the US armed forces used the M60 and Belgium Minimis. Since the game is set in 1985 BIS made the decision that is didn't fit in the game...which I can sympathise with.

'But added the Styr, Bizon and G36 and they are very modern weapons!' I hear you cry. That they are, however, I suspect that these are early VBS models (suspiciously released just before VBS was publically announced). They then added a OH-58D. I suspect they were working on an OH-58A or C for us, but after the release of the unrealistic weapons pack they upgraded it to an OH-58D for the added laser designator which could then be used in conjunction with the Hellfires.

Anyway, I expect we'll see an M249 with the VBS data disc that will be released later this year.<span id='postcolor'>

"Anyway...back to topic. I would like to see the M249 SAW, but there is a real reason why BIS never added the M249 in the first place or as an addon. This is because the M249 didn't enter production within the US until 1992 (despite being the official Squad Automatic Weapon since 1982) due to a drawn-out period of testing and modification before requirements were satisfied. Up to that date the US armed forces used the M60 and Belgium Minimis. Since the game is set in 1985 BIS made the decision that is didn't fit in the game...which I can sympathise with. "

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And I quote from The Marine/Army Database, Article#7e931335d515626a8525628100676e0c/0678d19b6a3890f98525628100765697:

The SAW was developed through an initially Army-led research and development effort and eventually a Joint NDO program in the late 1970s/early 1980s to restore sustained and accurate automatic weapons fire to the fire team and squad. -={When actually fielded in the mid-1980s, the SAW was issued as a one-for-one replacement for the designated "automatic rifle"}=-

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