Mi-24

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

Hey thanks Gerschwarzenge!Exactly what it sounds like.All though to hear what it sounds like in real life turn your computer volume up to max and speakers up to max.Thatll let you experiance it!Same with the M1A1.My dad lost 7 years of hearing from the M1A1.

[Fenix83 0]

All of you should try Steel Beasts

[christophercles 0]

Is that a tank game? Has anyone tried that new panzer game? it looks cool. Also, the bmp armour isnt strong enough defeat 50 anywhere on itself. Also the machine guns (the m2's) fire 1 bullet per burst, so it actually IS 500 rounds.

[Damage Inc 0]

Steel Beasts is probably the best tank simulator. Although I can't confirm that since the last tank game I've played is M1 Tank Platoon.

[christophercles 0]

Ill have to try it then, im a big tank fan, but havnt played many tank games lately. The last tank game i played seriously last was team yankee.

[Damage Inc 0]

Team Yankee isn't that about as old as M1 Tank Platoon?

[Fenix83 0]

Steel Beasts is the BEST tank simulator. One of my friends is gunner on Leopard 2A4 (soon A5) in switzerland and he said to me that it's like that in reality.

[Damage Inc 0]

Wasn't there a couple of real tank crewmembers designing the game?

[christophercles 0]

I dont know about how old m1 platoon is, but i played team yankee on my amiga 500.

[Dangus 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">they actaully still DO have .50's on them<span id='postcolor'>

Notice that I said it is not a standard feature of them....

M113 is a pretty crappy APC overall. With the quite major exception of the Abrams, the Russians have all the advantages in this game. The big thing missing from the OFP equation is high altitude combat aircraft....

[christophercles 0]

Yeah, the russians do have all the apc advantages with the bmp (grrrr) thats why i hate the bmps's (grrrr) i thought it was going to be balanced out with the bradley, but then they added the bmp2 (grrrrrrrrr).

And actually, in australia, .50's are standard on m113's.

[Dangus 0]

Australia with 18 million people is hardly a major military power though... Also, their former top armorer says their military is in total disrepair due to many factors ranging from no real good tracking system for their supplies, to gun control making recruits worse marksmen and causing key defense industries to go bankrupt.

[christophercles 0]

Actually our "key defense industries" are fueling the next generation of america's weapon systems. Our goverment doesnt spend NEAR enough on defense, but we dont have a bad defense force, and the gun controll is a GOOD thing. How many mass shootings you had in america this year already? 2, how many in australia in the last 4-5 years? 0.

[Sith 0]

Plz dont start a gun-law discussion here, it'll only end up becoming a flamewar.

[christophercles 0]

ok. see ive finished, have you? WANNA FLAME WAR ABOUT IT?? j/k

[christophercles 0]

Oh another remark i must make, about the poor marksmenship- the person who won in the rifle shooting at the olympics past 2 times? an australian who practises at the rifle range near my house.

[Dangus 0]

It's a lot easier to have mass shootings here even with no legal guns since we have 387 million people(a wee bit more than Australia wouldn't you say?), a much larger racial conflict problem, a much much larger drug war, political polarization, more extreme economic disparities, etc. You have no good evidence that gun control is a good thing, you just think it is, so you say so, which is your right of course, but that doesn't make you right. Australia has not seen any real increase in the total number of murders since the bans, but the number involving a firearm has actually increased quite significantly. Of course drugs are an issue there as well, so that complicates things.

Before you go acting all snobby about the state the US is in you should remember that the US is a HUGE place both geographically and in terms of population. My own state, Iowa, has a lower murder rate than England or Australia, and not only that, but it is lower in every other crime category except for the manufacture of crystal meth, which of course is largely due to the accessability of anhydrous amonia in a farm state.

Also, your country has seen an incredibly large number of accidental discharges from the Aug that they field, there have even been deaths related to this in East Timor. Aus SAS use the M-16 and the M-4 becaise it's a better weapon, and part of why that weapon has been so refined, and so many good loadouts are available for it are due largely to a heavily civilian demand for the AR-15 series weapon. Armalite, Colt, Bushmaster, etc. are able to continue to develop good weapon designs even when they fail to win government contracts, this allows more competing designs to be available at the same time. In Australia, if a weapon does not win government contract, it's unlikely to continue being developed unless it is developed for export to the US. Which, btw, the bulk of Aussie built weapons are.

When I am back on my own computer I will dig out the article this fellow wrote about the state of the Australian military and it's relation to gun control. If you are willing to be open minded for a little while it is a very good read.

[nyles 11]

Just give them some time. BIS will eventually learn a lot about realism with that VBS1 stuff..

The Marines want definetly to have a training simulator that is as real as possible, thus the physics will be changed for that purpose. Maybe the one or other tweak will find its way too OP:FP as well. Only problem i see is that regardless of what BIS changes, the overall balance, especially in the official campaigns can not be changed a lot, unless you tweak some corresponding missions.

Still "I" am for any tweak we could get to make things more enjoyable...realism makes up a huge part of this for me

[christophercles 0]

Look, im not going to get into a fight about which country is better, i already know from what you said that i get the better deal, but i know, that since the one big gun scare that was big enough for anyone to take notice of, theyve tightened gun laws, and there hasnt been anything since. I dont have to worry about guns, drugs or getting stabed on the street, even in australias biggest cities (which are incredibly multicultuturally diverse btw). Anyway! this thread is about mi-24's!

[reaper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (christophercles @ Jan. 17 2002,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... How many mass shootings you had in america this year already? 2, how many in australia in the last 4-5 years? 0.<span id='postcolor'>

If they'd quit trying to take our guns away, we'd quit shooting people J/K of course.

Seriously though, 99% of those shootings are with illegal guns, so it wouldn't do any good to put a ban on them because criminals aren't going to go to a gunshop and buy a gun. Laws only affect law abiding citizens.

Maybe we should continue this in the OT forum.

[heyvern69 22]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nyles @ Jan. 18 2002,12:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just give them some time. BIS will eventually learn a lot about realism with that VBS1 stuff..

The Marines want definetly to have a training simulator that is as real as possible, thus the physics will be changed for that purpose. Maybe the one or other tweak will find its way too OP:FP as well. Only problem i see is that regardless of what BIS changes, the overall balance, especially in the official campaigns can not be changed a lot, unless you tweak some corresponding missions.

Still "I" am for any tweak we could get to make things more enjoyable...realism makes up a huge part of this for me <span id='postcolor'>

YES, YES, YES.

I'm hoping to get better helicopter flight models and more realism in the weapons.

Realism doesn't have to go overboard. We don't need another Falcon 4.0 However, the greatest thing about realism in simulations is using the knowledge you gain to defeat the enemy. To learn about the strengths and weaknesses of each weapon, and use your weapons strengths against the enemy's weaknesses.

I'm hoping and PRAYING that some of the flight sim realisim elements of the Marines VBS1 system get copied over to our game. PLEASE oh PLEASE oh PLEASE oh PLEASE oh PLEASE ! ! !

I'd love to have a little more realism in the helos, the planes, their flight models and physics, their damage modeling, and some realism improvements in their avionics. So long as they don't go overboard and create a learning curve from hell, so that you have to flip 20 switches just to start the dang aircraft up before taxiing to the runway.

Developing these games is a balancing act, to please the widest audience. They can't cater to the hard core sim fans, but if they go too arcadish with the sim elements, people hate that too.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nyles @ Jan. 18 2002,19:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just give them some time. BIS will eventually learn a lot about realism with that VBS1 stuff..

The Marines want definetly to have a training simulator that is as real as possible, thus the physics will be changed for that purpose. Maybe the one or other tweak will find its way too OP:FP as well. Only problem i see is that regardless of what BIS changes, the overall balance, especially in the official campaigns can not be changed a lot, unless you tweak some corresponding missions.

Still "I" am for any tweak we could get to make things more enjoyable...realism makes up a huge part of this for me <span id='postcolor'>

The Marines aren't going to use VBS1 for flight training, nor will they let grunts enter helicopters as pilot/gunner teams to lay waste to the enemies they are facing. In fact, my guess is that none of the aircraft or tracked vehicles can be controlled directly, only things like HMMWVs and maybe trucks.

VBS1 will be used to present training scenarios that grunts might face, but the vehicles will be controlled by AIs, or specialists who play the opposing team, i.e. the vehicles will be locked and not playable by the Marines.

[Dangus 0]

I picked up the off topic portion of our discussion here:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....;t=4942

Please continue the Mi-24 discussion...