The Middle East part 2

[Bernadotte 0]

that was your question ?

No.

Will the Israeli air force use an air-strike to kill the terrorists who are guarding Corporal Gilad Shalit if the IDF finds out he is being guarded in a location where the army can't rescue him?

If your answer is no then why not?

[mp_phonix 0]

1.) Friendly Fire

2.) He is a POW/Prisoner/Choose the "Defenition" . We need to rescue him, not bomb who is guarding him and killing him. Use logic for a couple of seconds - Why would you kill one of your men who is being held as prisoner just to kill some guards ?

[Bernadotte 0]

He is a POW/Prisoner/Choose the "Defenition" .

He is a soldier who understands the risks to his own life for the sake of Israel's security, no?

We need to rescue him, not bomb who is guarding him and killing him.

Are you placing his safety above Israel's?  Besides, you are not deliberately targetting him so you might not even kill him.

Use logic for a couple of seconds - Why would you kill one of your men who is being held as prisoner just to kill some guards ?

They are not just "some guards."  They are probably the same dangerous terrorists who kidnapped Cpl Shilat and killed two of his commrades.  If not then they belong to the same group and are probably planning to kill more innocent Israeli women and children very soon.  You need to stop them.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

talking about human shields dont the IDF use palastinian civilians as human shields? i seem to remember a famous case when in one incident a inocent man was shot being used as an IDF human shield.

[mp_phonix 0]

@Bernadotte

Remind me again what point are you trying to make ?

First of all, if we knew where he was we would try to rescue him.

Quote[/b] ]

They are not just "some guards."  They are probably the same dangerous terrorists who kidnapped Cpl Shilat and killed two of his commrades.  If not then they belong to the same group and are probably planning to kill more innocent Israeli women and children very soon.  You need to stop them.

I guess you never heard about our "Hanibal" protocol. When a soldier is kidnhapped you organaize your men to search him, in case you are not able to 'catch up' with the kidnhappers but they are in sight , the orders are to shoot and kill them, including at the kidnhapped soldier. kidnhapped soldier is worse then a dead soldier.  For example, terrorist abducted 3 soldiers and put them into a car - the orders are to engage the car ->  with tanks,infantry, fire boxes etc. [but that is in case you can not do anything else - like stopping the car -> i mean you can't exactly shoot the tires from 600 meters]

[Bernadotte 0]

talking about human shields dont the IDF use palastinian civilians as human shields?  i seem to remember a famous case when in one incident a inocent man was shot being used as an IDF human shield.

Yes, that was in 2002 and it forced the Israeli Supreme Court to impose a temporary ban on the use of human shields.

In 2004, photographers caught this 13 year-old boy tied to a jeep as a shield against stone throwing.  They sent the photos to the Justice Ministry.

In Oct 2005, the ban against using human shields was made permanent, however the IDF has appealed the decision.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm

Btw, the IDF was still using Palestinian civilians as human shields in Gaza as recently as last month:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5212870.stm

[mp_phonix 0]

Phh what can I say . . . Why the fuck tying a kid 2 a jeep ? just shoot the stone throwing basterds ! [with rubber bullets of course]

[Not that I think it is OK to tie a kid to a jeep]

[deanosbeano 0]

Phh what can I say . . . Why the fuck tying a kid 2 a jeep ? just shoot the stone throwing basterds ! [with rubber bullets of course]

[Not that I think it is OK to tie a kid to a jeep]

so you think its ok to enter another country and shoot kids with rubber bullets ? now i am beginning to understand the mentality behind all this civilian killing.

besides you keep mentioning kidnapped soldiers , how can you now be 100% sure you are reading the truth when ,your top general ordered his secretay to sell his full portfolio of shares 3 hours before the kidnappings took place ? sounds alarm bells dont it ?

[Bernadotte 0]

I guess you never heard about our "Hanibal" protocol. When a soldier is kidnhapped you organaize your men to search him, in case you are not able to 'catch up' with the kidnhappers but they are in sight , the orders are to shoot and kill them, including at the kidnhapped soldier.

I guess you never heard that the "Hannibal Command" was stopped:

Quote[/b] ]When reservists protested this policy, it generated a public outcry. The General Staff discussed the issue again last year, and made an unequivocal decision: If you know that a captive is among those escaping, it is forbidden to fire on the escapees.

-- Haaretz

My point is this:  The IDF can bomb anyone it believes is a terrorist even if there are innocent people nearby, as long as the people are Arabs (or UN peacekeepers).

[mp_phonix 0]

Actually it was 3 hours AFTER the kidnhapping took place.Check your facts.

And they don't have a country yet. So saying "....its ok to enter another country and shoot kids with rubber bullets... " is not very accurate.

A lot of the civillian killing happens becuase we have stupid commanders , I admit.

Pretty Ironic me making fun of my Army but for example in one city everyday in 6:00pm a militan was starting to fire towards a settelment that is located down the hill [the phalastinian city is up the hill]. So what does our army do ? Start spraying with .50 cal machine guns towards the place where the firing is coming from. Stupid idiots never heard about snipers. But that's proabbly because we have shitty snipers so I'm not really surprised.But still that does not mean that we are not allowed to react when we are being fired upon - the way of the reaction could be questiond I admit, but the fact the we have the right to react - Can't be questiond -> we have it. Either you occcupaing or defending, you have the right to fire back.

[deanosbeano 0]

Quote[/b] ]Actually it was 3 hours AFTER the kidnhapping took place.Check your facts.

no it was 3 hours after they was sold , it was 3 hours before that he asked his secretary, all facts are checked.

Quote[/b] ]they don't have a country yet. So saying "....its ok to enter another country and shoot kids with rubber bullets... " is not very accurate.

so when your soldiers cross into palestine ,they are still in the state of israel ? if palestinian police enter israel and start shooting your friends with rubber bullets,because your friends threw stones ,is that ok in your eyes ?

[mp_phonix 0]

Quote[/b] ]Actually it was 3 hours AFTER the kidnhapping took place.Check your facts.

no it was 3 hours after they was sold , it was 3 hours before that he asked his secretary, all facts are checked.

Ermm are you sure ? I mean really ? I heard that 3 our after he picked up his phone and told the bank to sell his shares.

And If he gave the order to sell 3 hours before - Honestly - I'm not surprised. Our government being corrupted is not something new. It happens from Several reasons, and from the situation that is in our country.

[deanosbeano 0]

source

there are lots of sources in google but they all seem to stem from this report. in most eports they seem to omit the process leading to the sale and only report the time the sale took place. altho it proves nothing it does ask alot of questions if true,as in how the hell did he know this was all about to happen ? if true

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

well they army could have lied about when the actual events took place. (made them seem a few hours later). Some peoples view of palastian people here sickens me. shooting children for throwing stones is sick, it happens everywhere in the world. Do you think biritian would have solved anything in northern ireland if we shot a catholic with rubber bullits every time they threw stones at us? The only real incident of that happening was Bloody Sunday, and that was just a big mistake and misunderstanding.

[Daniel 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5270118.stm

Yikes, check the size of that bomb!

Check the 360 panorama too.

[mp_phonix 0]

well they army could have lied about when the actual events took place.  (made them seem a few hours later).  Some peoples view of palastian people here sickens me.  shooting children for throwing stones is sick,  it happens everywhere in the world.  Do you think biritian would have solved anything in northern ireland if we shot a catholic with rubber bullits every time they threw stones at us?  The only real incident of that happening was Bloody Sunday, and that was just a big mistake and misunderstanding.

Phh but they sure can catch some protesting Iraqi teenagers, drag them to an ally and kick theyr asses !

[deanosbeano 0]

you make a good comparison there phonix, an occupying force beating up young stone throwers in there own country.

theres only one big difference where most people condemn such actions, you say "shoot the bastards with rubber bullets".

[mp_phonix 0]

Shoot them if they are a threat to the soldier -> a lot of these "mini-riots" start with stones, then molotov coctails are being thrown, then some bigger stones, then the AKs are in the deal . . .

Of course you never heard the stories of refrigerators being throwen on patrols from the roof-tops and such . .

About bint-Jbil

What did you expected ? 'Lets go kill some terrorists in the village, but if their hiding in a house don't shoot you may destroy the house' ?

[SPQR 0]

Of course you never heard the stories of refrigerators being throwen on patrols from the roof-tops and such . .

Already happens in France, in the hot surban cities. And others heavy objects you hardly believe ("falling" filled coke glass bottle from the upper stores, in Montpellier and there was not riot at all this time )

But we didn't send the tanks neither

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

well they army could have lied about when the actual events took place.  (made them seem a few hours later).  Some peoples view of palastian people here sickens me.  shooting children for throwing stones is sick,  it happens everywhere in the world.  Do you think biritian would have solved anything in northern ireland if we shot a catholic with rubber bullits every time they threw stones at us?  The only real incident of that happening was Bloody Sunday, and that was just a big mistake and misunderstanding.

Phh but they sure can catch some protesting Iraqi teenagers, drag them to an ally and kick theyr asses !

yeh well the same type of iraqi teenagers cornered and beat too death 4 british MP's. Voilent demonstation is alot different to kids throwing stones. And plus, no-one died or got shot. I saw worse last time england football fans were attacked by turkish police.

[deanosbeano 0]

Quote[/b] ]Of course you never heard the stories of refrigerators being throwen on patrols from the roof-tops and such .

patroling in where , israel ?

[mp_phonix 0]

Nop. the terretories

[turms 0]

Nop. the terretories

you mean the occupied territories?

[deanosbeano 0]

you mean the occupied territories ?

beaten to it, fortunately not beaten to death in my own home by occupying forces ,:).

the original point and question was ,phonix, what would you do if palestinian police walked down your street and shot rubber bullets at your friends ? and you only had a fridge

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

you mean the occupied territories ?

beaten to it, fortunately not beaten to death in my own home by occupying forces ,:).

 the original point and question was ,phonix, what would you do if palestinian police walked down your street and shot rubber bullets at your friends ? and you only had a fridge

I'd bet he'd be too hot-headed to seek refuge in the fridge...