The Middle East part 2

[Garcia 0]

Except that the goal of the terrorists IS killing innocents.

The goal of terrorists isn't to kill innocents, it's their method to get to their goal that is killing terrorists.

Quote[/b] ]Face it, if you are part of a massive attack on a focal point that is the same strength as you, you want them to look at you and say "See ya!" and run away.

Of course you want. I would much rather see the enemy run away than fight them. That way I don't have to kill anyone and the risk of me getting killed is less too.

Quote[/b] ]What you see here is a little different because the IDF is going after guerrillas/terrorists. Besides, they still get whined at for killing the civilians. It doesn't go unnoticed.

Yes they get criticized for killing civilians, but they've never (or at least almost never) been called terrorists for it, unlike when muslims kill Israeli civilians.

[EiZei 0]

Except that the goal of the terrorists IS killing innocents.

I also believe they wear cloaks and moustaches and tie damsels to railroad tracks and generally hate puppies and ice cream.

[Baff2 0]

And use their own babies as body armour.

[Balschoiw 0]

I wonder what the IDF airforce is up about.

Another incident has been reported.

Israeli fighter locked on helicopter of commander of UNIFIL mission.

After the promises made that such interferences wouldn´t happen again, the IDF airforce has a credibility problem. Either their pilots are running wild or they don´t have much control of them anymore.

The videos of the "Alster" incident are reviewed right now and opposition party calls for public release of the tapes.

If the israelis are after provoking a military incident between IDF and german forces for political reasons they better shape up.

[*Pete* 0]

The hezbollah seemed to be uniformed during the last war with Israel.

Hamas and Fatah are also wearing militant clothing (most of them)..

so if the uniform decides who is a terrorist, it is easy to create a soldier out of any potential terrorist.

in my opinion..the artillery/airstrikes made by Israel is no better than the rockets launched by hezbollah, both forces were uniformed, both controlled by officers and political leaders, neither of them hijacked airplanes or used suicidebombers.

...id say, either both sides were terrorists, or neither of them were terrorists.

as for both hezbollah and hamas/fatah, they ARE fighting for territory occupied by israel,...which does make the fight (but not always the means) perfectly legal...as far as i know.

UN has recogniced the right to exist for israel, borders have also been defined.

so, the only solution as i can see to this problem, is to simply go back to the UN defined borders, hurt as it may, occupied land is stolen land, and will always be a cause for problems.

some say, that the "terrorists" wont give up before israel seizes to exist, but i think that if the "terrorists" are busy building up there own country, jobs for all and fair living conditions for the people...it will be hard to find people willing to support ideas that might destroy there own nation by war with israel, or people willing to kill themselfs, when they have the ability to support there familiy by honest work.

[cozza 24]

It dosnt matter wat uniform you wear. Terrorist is a person that use Terror on Civilians as a form of war. Simple as that

[Nemesis6 0]

Why, you think you can do any better against the Israelis than you've done against Hizballah, Balchoiw? Wait, I guess you can, since you actually want to do something about Israel.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Why, you think you can do any better against the Israelis than you've done against Hizballah, Balchoiw?

?

Have you forgotten to take your pills again ?

I can´t remember german BW fighting Hezbollah.

You´re confusing things ?

[Nemesis6 0]

I can´t remember german BW fighting Hezbollah.

That was my point. What makes you think they'll do better fighting an army that is themself superior?

[Baff2 0]

Israeli's are much easier targets than Hezbollah. Degrading their military capability would be much easier. Sinking submarines and ships, shooting down planes and helicopters, bombing tanks and command bunkers is exactly what German forces are geared up to do.

Isreal won't survive World War 3. Israels European alliances are fragile at best. Aggravating Germany really forces people to chose between them. Israel won't like that choice. When push comes to shove Isreal is just another peanut nation. Tiny and easily crushed.

I don't really think that Israel retreating back to it's UN defined borders is going to solve much. It might appease those who used to live there and can now return, but it won't appease the rest. I don't think there is any easy solution or purely diplomatic ending to this. They might as well hold what they've got.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]That was my point. What makes you think they'll do better fighting an army that is themself superior?

They are ? Lebanon experiences tell a different story. You were not able to win, you didn´t get your soldiers back and you failed to distinguish between civillians and terrorists with all your clusterbombs and phosphorus attacks.

What I was pointing at is that YOU asked as to take care of the assumed weapon smuggling and now it´s YOUR army putting us at risk.

You shouldn´t be surprised if we don´t go conform with such approach and our first priority still has to be to provide security for our own troops and ships. If IDF continues to provoke and endanger german forces in international waters while they are fulfilling an UN task YOUR country has asked for, you will have to face the consequences.

Targetting the helo of the commander of UNIFIL mission can be dangerous.

A strict to plan approach would be to shoot down the plane in question immedeatly in self defence. That´s for our security.

You can be assured that the germans operating in the area have enough firepower and capabilities to guarantee security for their own forces. I hope you don´t want to try.

[Fumega 0]

I'm tired of seeing Israel every day ostrasizing palestinians, bombing innocent civilians, leaving them withouth home.

When Israel thinks that found a so called "terrorist" in Palestinian territory, if he is on an apartment, they destroy the entire building, killing not only the "terrorist", but also 5 ot 6 innocent civilians, and leaving other 20 without home.

And when a palestinian decides to blow himself on a bus, the israelis stay all in shock... They deserved EVERY SUICIDE ATTACK that they had, period...

I don't know about you pop on the rest of the world, but here is below 0.

And PLEASE stop shielding on WW2, I'm tired of it.

[mp_phonix 0]

The hezbollah seemed to be uniformed during the last war with Israel.

Hamas and Fatah are also wearing militant clothing (most of them)..

so if the uniform decides who is a terrorist, it is easy to create a soldier out of any potential terrorist.

in my opinion..the artillery/airstrikes made by Israel is no better than the rockets launched by hezbollah, both forces were uniformed, both controlled by officers and political leaders, neither of them hijacked airplanes or used suicidebombers.

...id say, either both sides were terrorists, or neither of them were terrorists.

Let me correct you :

A unifrom does not make you a soldier. A soldier fights for his country, I mean, he "officialy" represents the country. Phalastine is not a country yet, hence HAMAS and FATAH are not soldiers and do not represnt any country. This is a FACT.

So you will say : "Ok, they are rebels. I allready explained that to me they are not rebels but terrorist because they are intentuntly targeting civillians, and also officialy do it , civillians casualties by HAMAS & FATAH [also Hizbullah] are not accident - That what makes them a terrorist organization.

Hizballah also is not part of the Lebanonis army, hence they are not considered as army but "armed organiztion". what makes it a terror organization is it's intentional civillian killing.

the difference is trying to minimize the casualties among civillians, and do not Intentionly target civillians. HAMAS & Hizballah try to Maximize casualties in the civillians side. Do you understand the difference or you are to arrogant to do so ?

@Balschoiw

So do we.

[Baff2 0]

A unifrom does not make you a soldier. A soldier fights for his country, I mean, he "officialy" represents the country. Phalastine is not a country yet, hence HAMAS and FATAH are not soldiers and do not represnt any country. This is a FACT.

So you will say : "Ok, they are rebels. I allready explained that to me they are not rebels but terrorist because they are intentuntly targeting civillians, and also officialy do it , civillians casualties by HAMAS & FATAH [also Hizbullah] are not accident - That what makes them a terrorist organization.

Hizballah also is not part of the Lebanonis army, hence they are not considered as army but "armed organiztion". what makes it a terror organization is it's intentional civillian killing.

the difference is trying to minimize the casualties among civillians, and do not Intentionly target civillians. HAMAS & Hizballah try to Maximize casualties in the civillians side. Do you understand the difference or you are to arrogant to do so ?

I don't recognise this difference, I don't see the Israeli's not using smaller weapon systems instead of cluster munitions to avoid civilian casualties any more than I saw Hisbollah not using Katushyas becuse they are wildly inaccurate.

It takes two to tango. Neither sides are in anyway blameless or morally superior. They are just fighting and it's an ugly business.

And no, Isreal doesn't have the military capability to argue with Germany. There is a very large capability gap between the third world countries you are used to and the frontline NATO forces of the worlds 3rd richest nation. You have enough trouble with your neighbours without opening up a third front.

They wouldn't even have to fight you, just send weapons to your enemies.

[Fumega 0]

A unifrom does not make you a soldier. A soldier fights for his country, I mean, he "officialy" represents the country. Phalastine is not a country yet, hence HAMAS and FATAH are not soldiers and do not represnt any country. This is a FACT.

So you will say : "Ok, they are rebels. I allready explained that to me they are not rebels but terrorist because they are intentuntly targeting civillians, and also officialy do it , civillians casualties by HAMAS & FATAH [also Hizbullah] are not accident - That what makes them a terrorist organization.

Hizballah also is not part of the Lebanonis army, hence they are not considered as army but "armed organiztion". what makes it a terror organization is it's intentional civillian killing.

the difference is trying to minimize the casualties among civillians, and do not Intentionly target civillians. HAMAS & Hizballah try to Maximize casualties in the civillians side. Do you understand the difference or you are to arrogant to do so ?

I don't recognise this difference, I don't see the Israeli's not using smaller weapon systems instead of cluster munitions to avoid civilian casualties any more than I saw Hisbollah not using Katushyas becuse they are wildly inaccurate.

It takes two to tango. Neither sides are in anyway blameless or morally superior. They are just fighting and it's an ugly business.

And no, Isreal doesn't have the military capability to argue with Germany. There is a very large capability gap between the third world countries you are used to and the frontline NATO forces of the worlds 3rd richest nation. You have enough trouble with your neighbours without opening up a third front.

They wouldn't even have to fight you, just send weapons to your enemies.

Off course Germany would crush Israel like ants, who is saying the contrary?

[EiZei 0]

Why would they if just blockading the mediterranean would be enough to devastate israel?

[Fumega 0]

Why would they if just blockading the mediterranean would be enough to devastate israel?

A naval and air block, it just take some EU countries to be against Israel and the US support to them would soon be over, and then Israel would be condemned to an end...

[mp_phonix 0]

You know what, comment like your's justifies the 'claim' that everybody wan't to kill jews and everybody are anti-scemic etc.

I wouldn't underastemate IDF if I were you, The BW are not that powerfull compared to us  

LoL. You think just because we are in the mid-east we are lame as the Iraqi army ? do you really think it will take only to weeks to take the whole country ?

Balschoiw, tell me how much troops does germany have ?

What some of you people don't understand, that if Germany invades . . well . . .some un-pleasent things will happend to them, some of them extremely ilegal. I don't have too say why . .

Germany invades ... trying to finish the job you started 60 years ago ?

[Garcia 0]

Let me correct you :

A unifrom does not make you a soldier. A soldier fights for his country, I mean, he "officialy" represents the country. Phalastine is not a country yet, hence HAMAS and FATAH are not soldiers and do not represnt any country. This is a FACT.

So you will say : "Ok, they are rebels. I allready explained that to me they are not rebels but terrorist because they are intentuntly targeting civillians, and also officialy do it , civillians casualties by HAMAS & FATAH [also Hizbullah] are not accident - That what makes them a terrorist organization.

Hizballah also is not part of the Lebanonis army, hence they are not considered as army but "armed organiztion". what makes it a terror organization is it's intentional civillian killing.

the difference is trying to minimize the casualties among civillians, and do not Intentionly target civillians. HAMAS & Hizballah try to Maximize casualties in the civillians side. Do you understand the difference or you are to arrogant to do so ?

As Baff said, I don't see Israel trying to avoid civilian casualties. If they're actually trying, I feel sorry for Israel, as they must have a pile of complete dumbasses in their army if that was the case.

Quote[/b] ]@Balschoiw

So do we.

So you you what? Try to keep your soldier secure? Tell me, what makes your soldiers so much more secure when you're playing around with Germany? How does pissing off Germany make your soldiers safer?

Quote[/b] ]Off course Germany would crush Israel like ants, who is saying the contrary?

Nemesis said it...

Quote[/b] ]Not surprised that europeans talking about the destruction of Israel.

Yes because poor little Israel is so innocent and the big ugly Europe is all bad

Quote[/b] ]I wouldn't underastemate IDF if I were you, The BW are not that powerfull compared to us

They might not be that much stronger than Israel, but I'm quite sure they are stronger. And I think if Israel and Germany would end up in a war, Israel would have problems finding any friends...except USA, which would also have problems supporting Israel totally. And Israel would have probably have much more problems finding the money for a war against Germany. After all, much of the money for their army already comes from USAs pocket.

Quote[/b] ]LoL. You think just because we are in the mid-east we are lame as the Iraqi army ? do you really think it will take only to weeks to take the whole country ?

lol you are quite foolish sometimes. Did anyone ever compare you to the Iraqi army? Actually, for every day you seem more paranoid.

[Fumega 0]

Not surprised that europeans talking about the destruction of Israel.

I wouldn't underastemate IDF if I were you, The BW are not that powerfull compared to us  

LoL. You think just because we are in the mid-east we are lame as the Iraqi army ? do you really think it will take only to weeks to take the whole country ?

Three weeks? That's so much time, how about 1 week or less? Iraq is much larger than you are... Put one thing on your head, without the US support you are nothing. An naval and air block during some months and then an invasion.

Or just like mbaff said, send weapons to your enemies.

And you are saying you aren't so lame as the Iraqui army? You are a lot more, against hezbolah your soldiers were crying like sissies, and against real armies?

[mp_phonix 0]

Quote[/b] ]

You are a lot more, against hezbolah your soldiers were crying like sissies, and against real armies?

Like Portugal "soldiers" would be crying less ?

you don't know even what happend in Lebanon, only what you heard on BBC/Sky news etc.

Don't pretend you have a greater knowledge than me because you read something on globalsecurity.org or by listening to foreign news.

[Garcia 0]

Germany invades ... trying to finish the job you started 60 years ago ?

oh how nice. Try being a bit less mature, shall you? You disgust me. You could have deserved going through what a lot of people went through during WWII. You misuse the pain and suffering your people went through during WWII for your own gain, and that is really disgusting.

Quote[/b] ]Don't pretend you have a greater knowledge than me because you read something on globalsecurity.org or by listening to foreign news.

Quote[/b] ]You think just because we are in the mid-east we are lame as the Iraqi army ?

So you're allowed to think you know about the Iraqi army because you've seen/read reports about it? The Iraqi army met the strongest army in the world, do you think you would hold for more than a week or two against the US army? I doubt it...

[Baff2 0]

You know what, comment like your's justifies the 'claim' that everybody wan't to kill jews and everybody are anti-scemic etc.

I wouldn't underastemate IDF if I were you, The BW are not that powerfull compared to us  

LoL. You think just because we are in the mid-east we are lame as the Iraqi army ? do you really think it will take only to weeks to take the whole country ?

Balschoiw, tell me how much troops does germany have ?

What some of you people don't understand, that if Germany invades . . well . . .some un-pleasent things will happend to them, some of them extremely ilegal. I don't have too say why . .

Germany invades ... trying to finish the job you started 60 years ago ?

Germany doesn't have to invade. All it has to do is destroy your Air Force and Navy. Then you are are going to get murdered by your neighbours.

You live in a tiny nation. You are no Iraq. It won't take hundreds of thousands of military assets to overwhelm you. No coaliton, no U.S.

Just a couple of submarines and a bomber to each airport. You are in the little league.

The IDF is an excellent and elite fighting force on par with any the world has to offer. But it's very small. It's surrounded by enemies and the methods it's has been relying upon to dominate it's neighbours are precisely the kind of systems the Germany army has been practising to destroy for the last 50 years.

As for anything illegal happening to Germany, if you wish to maintain the option to act illegally, you better learn your place in the pecking order, otherwise it will be taken away from you.

60 years ago...

You might well remember how many people sided with you against Germany that time too.

There is a pecking order. Buck it, and you will get pecked.

[Baff2 0]

Quote[/b] ]

You are a lot more, against hezbolah your soldiers were crying like sissies, and against real armies?

Like Portugal "soldiers" would be crying less ?

you don't know even what happend in Lebanon, only what you heard on BBC/Sky news etc.

Don't pretend you have a greater knowledge than me because you read something on globalsecurity.org or by listening to foreign news.

I have to concur with this one, I doubt very much if there is an army on the planet who could have done better than the IDF in these circumstances. Hesbolah isn't a joke force, and I didn't see the IDF shying away from the fight or being forced to retreat.

[j w 0]

The Iraqi army met the strongest army in the world, do you think you would hold for more than a week or two against the US army? I doubt it...

Maybe your sarcastic, my bad in that case, but otherwise, here's my comment:

Sure, the US wins everywhere, cause the system of the whole country is probably created out from the needs of the military.

Why do you think people join the army? Not for the pride, the feeling of being able to change the world.

They do it cause they want/need the money. (And of course also cause of the fact that every woman on earth thinks a man in uniform is hot )

So, US kids comming on to university. Oh noes, law school, that costs 50 000 dollars. Hmm.. I know, I'll join the army.

And, voila, you have recruits!

So, therefore US wins, cause they have so many troops.

But lets face it.

1 on 1, the iraqi would win with ease. And why's that?

Well, he doesn't do it cause of the money, the uniform or anything else.

He does it to protect his country, his family, his friends, the thing he belives in.

They're real patriots, though, they don't have sites about themselves, so the western world just see them as crazy terrorists shouting "Bakka-lakka-dakka!!! Muhammed Jihad!!!1!ONE!!1!!ELEVEN!1!!"* and 'spraying' with their AKs.

Atleast, that's what I think.

Quote[/b] ]* Some quotes from "Team America", nothing I have actually seen/heard