USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[Garcia 0]

maybe i should use you as one, an egotistic self-centered dumb*ss that has no respect of other human beings. thank you for opening my eye oh great jack*ss of the year!

...you're not exactly the right person to talk about that after the "Oh great USA which is blessed by God and God is on our side, bla bla bla"...personally I would consider that (thinking that USA is so much more special than anybody else so God himself will bless them) to be rather egosentrical...

Quote[/b] ]we still got into Iraq kicked a*s and took Saddam out of power, whats the difference? fly from the north and drop bombs or fly from the south and drop bombs?

Quote[/b] ]and not recognizing someone for helping is just as bad as not recognizing their sovereignty at all. they made sacrifices, and I respect them for that.

What's the difference in not recognizing someones contribution? Drop bombs made in Germany or UK, what's the difference? They all say "boom"...

Quote[/b] ]dude, progress in WWI was minimal at best.

And just think about the progress USA brought to the war then...minimal contribution to a war with minimal progress... that makes it something like minimal^2 progress contributed by USA

Quote[/b] ]If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and acts like a duck...

Quote[/b] ]Besides, the criteria they used to determine that the sailor was "British" fit nearly all Americans (look, acted and spoke English, and/or had an English name).

Uh, double standards? The British Empire couldn't use the neat "Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, acts like a duck...must be a duck" rule to prove people being English, but you can to prove people being Canadian/American?

Quote[/b] ]as you said, the RN and Britain was busy being in war. They had little regard for Canada and its resources of timber. besides they had their own "South American, African, Asian, Indian, Australasian and European trees." Why come all the way over here to get southern live oak?

Hmm, lets see...hmm...if the southern live oak was so good as you claim to build ships, actually so good that they made ships the best in the world, why wouldn't the british empire come all the way over there?

Quote[/b] ]try another example. But know this, by putting the British higher you consiquently bring the Americans along. after all, they did pop a few black eyes into the British ranks.

Why would I try another example? The example I provided served its purposed perfectly, namely showing that the UK militarys strenght and skills can't be measured out of their past achivments against badly equiped opposition

But lets use this neat logic a bit...a brit quite likely sometime killed an american...that must mean the brits are much better than the americans at fighting and such...of course, we ignore the fact that a american quite likely have killed a brit sometimes. Also, the americans descends from the brits, that means every american victory shows that the brits are damned good...and using that logic, but in a more recent time...according to what I've heard, during the 2 wars in Iraq, not a single Challanger tank was destroyed, while some Abrams tanks were...now this surely proves that the brits are both much better at producing good equipment, but also have much better tank-crew...and this again proves that the brits are much better than the americans at fighting wars...

Of course, there's probably as many flaws in that logic than in Hitler logic to why the jews deserved to die, but I so neatly choose to igonore those flaws, as they, at this current time, doesn't help me "prove" that the brits are the best ones when it comes to fighting wars...

[ralphwiggum 6]

ok seems like people are thinking this is Iraq thread. maybe locking this thread for sometime will clear their brains.

[ralphwiggum 6]

opening.

maybe I'll just PR those who think this is Iraq thread.

[feersum.endjinn 6]

maybe I'll just PR those who think this is Iraq thread.

I'm not sure you can discuss US politics without bringing Iraq into it, just as US domestic politics affect everyone globally, situation in Iraq affects US domestic politics as last election proved.

[EiZei 0]

The walrus is gone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6207054.stm

Quote[/b] ]

Controversial US envoy quits post

The controversial US ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, is to leave his post, the White House says.

Mr Bolton looked unable to win the necessary Senate support for him to continue in the job, which he had obtained on a temporary basis.

Critics have questioned factors including his abrasive style at the UN.

Mr Bolton's move comes after US defence chief Donald Rumsfeld resigned following the Republican defeat in last month's mid-term elections.

[Sophion-Black 0]

lol walrus... that mustache just gets me to laugh.

anyways, (back to USA Politics), has anyone been following the Pledge Protection Act of 2005? I've found it quite interesting that those mexican rejects over in california still have it out for the US. I mean come on, basting the words "Under God" in the pledge? I say take away their money (since its says "in God we trust"), keep them away from the supreme court (since they always say "God save the United States and this Honorable Court"), and kick them out of the US  (since the national motto says "in God we trust"). After all, their main aim is to stay away from anything that has "God" in it. Were just going to help them out (he he he).

[EiZei 0]

lol walrus... that mustache just gets me to laugh.

anyways, (back to USA Politics), has anyone been following the Pledge Protection Act of 2005?

They may get 165000 USD per year in salaries and god knows how much more in other ways but at least they are spending their increasingly valuable time drafting important and meaningful legislation like this.

[fardwark 0]

So I guess the US government is turning more and more into the European Union by the day. Instead of spending time legislating and regulating important issues they make damn sure they ferret out the least significant and completely pointless items and put them on the agenda.

[Sophion-Black 0]

If you read my post you would have realized the big picture. So much of the US government has this sort of thing in it. declaring the pledge unconstitutional will open means to say the constitution is unconstitutional ("In the year of our Lord..."). Thus putting the US at odds against itself.

Brain hurting yet? mine is just thinking of the possibilities of what might happen if it is deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court... ow. To think, people would then be able to look at enlistment poster while swearing in and see "To defend Parts A of the constitution" or "To defend Parts B of the constitution."

[Sophion-Black 0]

[runs back to post]

Quote[/b] ]Gates Confirmed as Defense Secretary

WASHINGTON  —  The Senate overwhelmingly voted Wednesday to confirm Robert Gates as the defense secretary.

(Article)

YYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

   

(Don't worry, I'm not going crazy)

finally a democrat in be in effective charge of the US Military. yes yes, i know i know, "But Sophion, you hate democrats." BUT NOT LIKE THIS!!! I so called it:

I'm sure it would have been better off like the old days and put a democrat in charge of the army to shut those b*****ds up.

HAH!

[leaves as quickly as he came]

[walker 0]

Hi all

I asked this once before but I you did not see it I guess Sophion-Black, so if you could answer the question, it would clear a lot of things up for us all.

"Let me get this straight, you, Sophion-Black, believe god punished the Republicans and the NeoConMen causing them to loose the election because: George Bush Junior, George Bush Senior, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Karl Rove all go to Bohemian Grove and worship a graven image of an owl, have a mock human sacrifice and dance around with flaming crosses in hooded robes like a bad Hollywood B movie?"

Personally I think the reason the NeoConMen caused the Republican party to loose the election was not "God's Punishment" because the NeoConMen worship a Graven image and have mock human sacrifices etc, as Sophion Black would seem to have us believe.

I think the reasons NeoConMen caused the Republican party to loose the election were several.

1) The increasing secularism of the USA.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/kurtz_22_3.htm

2) The increasing realisation of the of evangelical Christianity that the NeoConMen were conning them; especially after David Kuo, a conservative Christian, former assistant to President Bush and Deputy Director of Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiatives program, revealed the NeoConMen consider evangelicals as being: "boorish", "ridiculous",  "goofy", "nuts" in his book Tempting Faith: An Inside Story of Political Seduction.

http://www.amazon.com/Temptin....3287126

Where David Kuo also revealed the NeoConMen are "cynically hijacking the faith-based initiatives idea for electoral gain," ignoring issues such as poverty, and limiting faith-based grants to organizations that are "politically friendly to the administration."

3) That after 6 years of power in both Senate, Congress and White House the NeoConMen had not delivered on their promises. When NeoConMen politicians think evangelicals are "boorish", "ridiculous", "goofy", "nuts" they are not going to deliver what the evangelicals want.

4) The carrot of 8 billion dollars was promised in the Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiatives program but only about 21 million was ever paid out. And all the recipients of the 21 million made a big fuss about how good Bush was to the christian evangelicals and used the cash for their bid for control of their particular church group, when they were not paying for drugs and rent boys. I guess the evangelicals stopped wanting to be treated as donkeys.

5) The unmistakable whiff of corruption that the US electorate in exit surveys said was their main reason for voting the way they did.

I guess all these played a factor:

 5.1) The Ideological adherence of the NeoConMen to conning the electorate so graphically described in the writings of their founder Leo Strauss as the exoteric and esoteric Straussian text.

5.2) The whiff of corruption that seams to permeate the NeoConMen, consider the apparent involvement in Malfeasance of: Abramoff would take a couple of pages to list, Randy 'Duke' Cunningham who's in prison, you have got Bob Ney heading to prison, Kenneth Lay, George Bush Juniors best friend, escaped prison by dieing, Ted Haggard drugs and rent boys, Tom Delay under investigation for money laundering, Bill Frist investigated for insider trading, Bob Corker being investigated for shady land deals, George Allen the man who called an opponents staffer a Macaca and who's supporters assaulted a US Marine Veteran for asking awkward question like what is your arrest record senator? And now being investigated for stuffing a deers head through a black family's mailbox, Scooter Libby under indictment for lying to the FBI while they were investigating a CIA agents cover being blown, Danny Hastert and his whole office being investigated for failing to report Mark Foley when he was stalking little boys, ditto Tom Reynolds, Mark Foley himself for chasing after little boys... etc.

 5.3) The corruption of pretending to be christian while going to Bohemian Grove to worship a graven image of an owl, have a mock human sacrifice and dance around with flaming crosses in hooded robes like a bad Hollywood B movie.

 5.4) The increasing awareness, because the internet, of the Franklin Case cover up. It is a lot harder to hide skeletons in the closet now the media is free. Buying up a documentry so you can destroy all copies and threatening the cable TV channels, such as Discovery, with legislation to damage their bottom line; no longer works in these days of the lone blogger with a website as the Mark Foley case proved as well.

 5.5) The electorates knowledge of the Jeff Gannon story that skeleton is still rattling in the White House closets, much more to come on that.

6) The anger of evangelical and traditional Christians at the NeoConMen's attempt to create a nationalised state run church, shades of communist China any one? And the very apparent anti christian message of the NeoConMen's straussian text. Exoteric: "We are Christians and if your not with us your not Christean" Esoteric: We hate those "boorish", "ridiculous", "goofy", "nuts" the Christians, we hate the poor (the churches never got that 8 billion they promissed for the poor)

Quote[/b] ]Message From A Megachurch

By E. J. Dionne Jr.

Tuesday, December 5, 2006; Page A29

American politics took an important turn last week at a church in the foothills of Southern California's Santa Ana Mountains.

When Rick Warren, one of the nation's most popular evangelical pastors, faced down right-wing pressure and invited Sen. Barack Obama to speak at a gathering at his Saddleback Valley Community Church about the AIDS crisis, he sent a signal: A significant group of theologically conservative Christians no longer wants to be treated as a cog in the Republican political machine...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....48.html

follow the link for the full story

7) The increasing return of Christians to smaller local traditional churches and to a more personal form of faith, a reaction to the NeoConMen's Mega-Mega State Church.

8) Loosing the Iraq war!

9) The massive national debt the US tax payer is now saddled with. There is graph of that a few pages back.

10) The continuing increases in the price of gas.

11) The bad reputation the US is suffering from internationally.

12) The decrease in the middle classes standard of living.

13) The failure of US diplomacy, influence and intelligence: North Korea, Iran, South America, Trade groups that exclude the US sprouting up all over the world etc.

14) Having a President who is so much of a laughing stock his party refuses to have him campaign for them and other leaders don't want to be seen with him.

15) Failure to plan for victory in Iraq.

16) Failing to deal with Hurricanes.

17) Failing to give the troops enough body armor.

etc. etc. etc.

My Fingers are getting sore

Nah it was not as Sophion-Black would seem to have us believe God who punished the NeoConMen because George Bush Junior, George Bush Senior, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Karl Rove all go to Bohemian Grove and worship a graven image of an owl, have a mock human sacrifice and dance around with flaming crosses in hooded robes like a bad Hollywood B movie.

It was the US voters who punished the NeoConMen controlled Republican party and the worshiping a graven image hardly came into it for most of them.

Kind Regards Walker

[denoir 0]

[runs back to post]

Quote[/b] ]Gates Confirmed as Defense Secretary

WASHINGTON  —  The Senate overwhelmingly voted Wednesday to confirm Robert Gates as the defense secretary.

(Article)

YYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

   

(Don't worry, I'm not going crazy)

finally a democrat in be in effective charge of the US Military. yes yes, i know i know, "But Sophion, you hate democrats." BUT NOT LIKE THIS!!! I so called it:

I'm sure it would have been better off like the old days and put a democrat in charge of the army to shut those b*****ds up.

HAH!

[leaves as quickly as he came]

You are as well-informed as usual.

Gates is a republican. Not only that, he was the CIA directory under Bush senior.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]As for the reliability of wikipedia, testing has shown it to be roughly as reliable as Britannica.

wow, thanks for telling the world a murder is just as bad a a homicide. The reason why many US schools don't have britannica in them, surprise.

Given your ignorance of.. um.. everything.. I'm guessing your school is one of them. Britannica is generally considered to be the most reliable encyclopedia in existence. As for US schools not having it - hardly surprising - they are at the absolute bottom in the western world.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Incidentally, that's what you are consistently doing. You need new role models.

maybe i should use you as one, an egotistic self-centered dumb*ss that has no respect of other human beings. thank you for opening my eye oh great jack*ss of the year!

Hehe, I'm going to let your comment speak for itself.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Nobody screwed up the invasion plans as much as Turkey did.

we still got into Iraq kicked a*s and took Saddam out of power, whats the difference? fly from the north and drop bombs or fly from the south and drop bombs?

The point is that on the white house page Turkey is listed as a member of the coalition along with a number of other countries that not only had nothing to do with the invasion but actively opposed it. It shows how reliable the propaganda office of the white house is.

[Garcia 0]

Jimmy Carter apparently says the Israeli ("apartheid"-)policy is worse than the apartheid in South Africa in his new book, and he wants to create a debate on the subject of the USAs Israeli politics, which he means is very much controlled by Israeli oragnizations and such...

Not suprisingly, Israelis have, as they always do when someone critize them, brought out the anti-semitism card. Abraham H. Foxman means it's pretty close to anti-semitism.

Way to go Carter Something surely have to be done with the US policy conserning Israel & Palestine.

[MR_TROUBLE 0]

If you read my post you would have realized the big picture. So much of the US government has this sort of thing in it. declaring the pledge unconstitutional will open means to say the constitution is unconstitutional ("In the year of our Lord..."). Thus putting the US at odds against itself.

Brain hurting yet? mine is just thinking of the possibilities of what might happen if it is deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court... ow. To think, people would then be able to look at enlistment poster while swearing in and see "To defend Parts A of the constitution" or  "To defend Parts B of the constitution."

The phrase wasn't even in the original version (written by a socialist in 1892) of the pledge. It was put into the pledge in the 1950's, when Dwight Eisenhower was president, during a whole religious movement in the country, after pressure from a Catholic group called the Knights of Columbus.

The pressure to put religion into Government, the Constitution, really started after the US Civil War because a large group of clergymen felt the horrors of the war was a form of payback from God on the founding fathers for not declaring that the US was a Christian nation. They tried to get amendments to the constitution to make it say so.

That's just as bad as any lobbying group, pressuring the US Congress, to put "One Nation Under Santa Claus" or the "Easter Bunny" since so many people apparently believe in that as well.

The pledge was originally designed to show patriotism, not to show your belief in any religion. The words under god should be removed from the pledge.

[Garcia 0]

The pledge was originally designed to show patriotism, not to show your belief in any religion.  The words under god should be removed from the pledge.

[macross580 0]

9/11 INSIDE JOB-need I say more?

Rather let it happen or purpose (Briefed since 1996)or Orchastrated (Firefighters-over 300 who came out of WTC say bombs went off, the collapse videos tell all)-its still

TREASON.

[EiZei 0]

9/11 INSIDE JOB-need I say more?

Rather let it happen or purpose (Briefed since 1996)or Orchastrated (Firefighters-over 300 who came out of WTC say bombs went off, the collapse videos tell all)-its still

TREASON.

So you just signed up just to post this? I smell an another conspiracy..

[MR_TROUBLE 0]

9/11 INSIDE JOB-need I say more?

Rather let it happen or purpose (Briefed since 1996)or Orchastrated (Firefighters-over 300 who came out of WTC say bombs went off, the collapse videos tell all)-its still

TREASON.

Please, any talk of this conspiracy nonsense does the people who died and their families a big injustice. So please just cut it out. Al Qaeda did this. Put the blame where it squarely belongs.

To suggest that the neoconservatives in charge of the US Govt, some of the biggest incompetents in history, somehow all got together, swore secrecy and kept to it, and then orchestrated a massive attack on US soil to make it look like Al Qaeda did it is the biggest bunch of horsecrap I've ever heard.

Sure sometimes governments orchestrate attacks like this or lie about an attack...such as Hitler did...and the US did with the Gulf of Tonkin incident...but 9/11? Do you realize what you're even suggesting. Think about it.

As evil and warmongering as our current govt leaders are, I refuse to believe that they would willingly take part in multiple airline hijackings, a Pentagon attack, the destruction of the WTC's, all resulting in the death of 3000 American citizens.

[billybob2002 0]

If you read my post you would have realized the big picture. So much of the US government has this sort of thing in it. declaring the pledge unconstitutional will open means to say the constitution is unconstitutional ("In the year of our Lord..."). Thus putting the US at odds against itself.

Brain hurting yet? mine is just thinking of the possibilities of what might happen if it is deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court... ow. To think, people would then be able to look at enlistment poster while swearing in and see "To defend Parts A of the constitution" or "To defend Parts B of the constitution."

The phrase wasn't even in the original version (written by a socialist in 1892) of the pledge. It was put into the pledge in the 1950's, when Dwight Eisenhower was president, during a whole religious movement in the country, after pressure from a Catholic group called the Knights of Columbus.

The pressure to put religion into Government, the Constitution, really started after the US Civil War because a large group of clergymen felt the horrors of the war was a form of payback from God on the founding fathers for not declaring that the US was a Christian nation. They tried to get amendments to the constitution to make it say so.

That's just as bad as any lobbying group, pressuring the US Congress, to put "One Nation Under Santa Claus" or the "Easter Bunny" since so many people apparently believe in that as well.

The pledge was originally designed to show patriotism, not to show your belief in any religion. The words under god should be removed from the pledge.

What is your opinion on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States. God is looking down in favor of the American cause. Should we remove God from the reverse side of the Great Seal?

God has been in the Great Seal for over 200 years and it has not been declared unconstitutional.

[MR_TROUBLE 0]

If you read my post you would have realized the big picture. So much of the US government has this sort of thing in it. declaring the pledge unconstitutional will open means to say the constitution is unconstitutional ("In the year of our Lord..."). Thus putting the US at odds against itself.

Brain hurting yet? mine is just thinking of the possibilities of what might happen if it is deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court... ow. To think, people would then be able to look at enlistment poster while swearing in and see "To defend Parts A of the constitution" or  "To defend Parts B of the constitution."

The phrase wasn't even in the original version (written by a socialist in 1892) of the pledge.  It was put into the pledge in the 1950's, when Dwight Eisenhower was president, during a whole religious movement in the country, after pressure from a Catholic group called the Knights of Columbus.

The pressure to put religion into Government, the Constitution, really started after the US Civil War because a large group of clergymen felt the horrors of the war was a form of payback from God on the founding fathers for not declaring that the US was a Christian nation.  They tried to get amendments to the constitution to make it say so.

That's just as bad as any lobbying group, pressuring the US Congress, to put "One Nation Under Santa Claus" or the "Easter Bunny" since so many people apparently believe in that as well.

The pledge was originally designed to show patriotism, not to show your belief in any religion.  The words under god should be removed from the pledge.

What is your opinion on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States. God is looking down in favor of the American cause. Should we remove God from the reverse side of the Great Seal?

God has been in the Great Seal for over 200 years and it has not been declared unconstitutional.

I'm all for removing any and all religious references from official govt seals, documents, etc. I feel that any religion is a personal thing between that person and their chosen God. It shouldn't be in our face everyday...I shouldn't have to see a cross image in a city seal or my currency. Our govt shouldn't sanction or endorse any religious symbols or references.

The "eye" you're referring to which I guess is supposed to be the eye of god doesn't bother me that much. But I don't think that we should force the pledge of allegiance on people for one...and I don't think that it should mention god.

It doesn't keep me up at night and I think there are other more important issues that truly effect our lives that we should focus on...but yeah...I don't agree with religious imagry on seals or currency/coins.

But I realize I'm in the minority. I live in a country where someone puts a fking grilled cheese sandwich on Ebay that supposedly has the image of the virgin mary on the bread and people bid on it for thousands of dollars.

[billybob2002 0]

But I realize I'm in the minority. I live in a country where someone puts a fking grilled cheese sandwich on Ebay that supposedly has the image of the virgin mary on the bread and people bid on it for thousands of dollars.

You also live in a country in which people pay money for used panties. Anyway, you are correct in saying that you are in the minority. You got to look at the history of our country to understand why your are in the minority. Connecticut, for example, did not disestablish the Congregational Church until 1818. Gen. William Eaton, commander of American forces and "allied" forces during the First Barbary War, wrote in his journal, "(W)e find it almost impossible to inspire these wild bigots with confidence in us or to persuade them that, being Christians, we can be otherwise than enemies to Musselmen."

Yikes.

[MR_TROUBLE 0]

But I realize I'm in the minority.  I live in a country where someone puts a fking grilled cheese sandwich on Ebay that supposedly has the image of the virgin mary on the bread and people bid on it for thousands of dollars.

You also live in a country in which people pay money for used panties. Anyway, you are correct in saying that you are in the minority. You got to look at the history of our country to understand why your are in the minority. Connecticut, for example, did not disestablish the Congregational Church until 1818. Gen. William Eaton, commander of American forces and "allied" forces during the First Barbary War, wrote in his journal, "(W)e find it almost impossible to inspire these wild bigots with confidence in us or to persuade them that, being Christians, we can be otherwise than enemies to Musselmen."

Yikes.

I thought that was Japan with the used panties thing...not the US.

[billybob2002 0]

But I realize I'm in the minority. I live in a country where someone puts a fking grilled cheese sandwich on Ebay that supposedly has the image of the virgin mary on the bread and people bid on it for thousands of dollars.

You also live in a country in which people pay money for used panties. Anyway, you are correct in saying that you are in the minority. You got to look at the history of our country to understand why your are in the minority. Connecticut, for example, did not disestablish the Congregational Church until 1818. Gen. William Eaton, commander of American forces and "allied" forces during the First Barbary War, wrote in his journal, "(W)e find it almost impossible to inspire these wild bigots with confidence in us or to persuade them that, being Christians, we can be otherwise than enemies to Musselmen."

Yikes.

I thought that was Japan with the used panties thing...not the US.

*off-topic*

Nope, a sports entertainment company actually auctions off used panties and bra.

*off-topic*

[MR_TROUBLE 0]

The decline of Western civilization continues...

[Sophion-Black 0]

well... it almost as bad as selling your left nut. but anyways,

Quote[/b] ]...and I don't think that it should mention God

well that was a major argument that was put into the constitutional convention. look what happened a 72 years later... the south took arms against the new england states in the civil war. It was a problem that most "states" reviewed (not mentioning God in the US Constitution). There you saw the growing tensions of the Virginia plan vs. New Jersey plan explode. Point being, religion is a big part of American culture.

One major problem stands in your way about US currency being unconstitutional. What part of the constitution does it contradict? don't even think about pulling the first amendment as a defence because if you pull it into context it says this:

Quote[/b] ]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

There are two MAJOR points to be stated here:

1) The United States Congress made no law adopting the currency, the congress under the articles of confederation did.

2) The Federal Reserve System is NOT operated by the US government but operated by private banks

But again you have to take in the one big factor about religion in the US, it's a big part of the country's heritage and culture.

Quote[/b] ]The pledge was originally designed to show patriotism, not to show your belief in any religion.  The words under god should be removed from the pledge.

The words were put into the pledge to distinguish the US from the Soviet Union. We were rubbing in their face that the US had religion and they didn't. Again culture brings out the contradiction in your quote.