The Iraq thread 4

[billybob2002 0]

It seems Iraqi security forces "retook" the village. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....5

[SFWanabe 0]

Good for them. Now if they keep they're heads out of they're asses our boys might be ablke to come home........

[terox 316]

I dont really see the problem here

1) there were no weapons of mass destruction before the coalition forces went in, there will be some there now

2) Bush & Blair didnt do anything other than our normal expectations of  politicians

3) Some folks were killed, some folks werent

4) Petrol prices still went up

5) Oil  is still present in the middle east and therefore so are the US

6) Some folks were tortured, No biggy as this happens in every theatre of operations everyday somewhere in the world (The head chopping off thing, well thats a tad different)

7) Journalists did nothing other than what they normally do which is to create the news rather than report it

8) Retarded idiots add over 100 posts to a thread voicing opinions that nobody in power gives a rats ass for

9) and the next war will still occur in the middle east

10) Oh by the way, Muslims and Christians will continue to fight each other until they realise

a) They worship the same god

b) Their leaders are power crazed dickheads who probably shag each others wives and offspring

c) There is not enough of them to still continue killing

d) The oil has run out

so what is it you are still debating??

Before folks state how important their opinions are

ask yourself the question

If you wear combat trousers

are you wearing them because your are paid too

or

are you wearing them because you wanted to join the military But.........

[SFWanabe 0]

I dont really see the problem here

1) there were no weapons of mass destruction before the coalition forces went in, there will be some there now

2) Bush & Blair didnt do anything other than our normal expectations of politicians

3) Some folks were killed, some folks werent

4) Petrol prices still went up

5) Oil is still present in the middle east and therefore so are the US

6) Some folks were tortured, No biggy as this happens in every theatre of operations everyday somewhere in the world (The head chopping off thing, well thats a tad different)

7) Journalists did nothing other than what they normally do which is to create the news rather than report it

8) Retarded idiots add over 100 posts to a thread voicing opinions that nobody in power gives a rats ass for

9) and the next war will still occur in the middle east

10) Oh by the way, Muslims and Christians will continue to fight each other until they realise

a) They worship the same god

b) Their leaders are power crazed dickheads who probably shag each others wives and offspring

c) There is not enough of them to still continue killing

d) The oil has run out

so what is it you are still debating??

Before folks state how important their opinions are

ask yourself the question

If you wear combat trousers

are you wearing them because your are paid too

or

are you wearing them because you wanted to join the military But.........

Thoses are big things when its your fellow countrymen dude and when you have to pay for the gas to go to and from work and its also would be big thing when its your nuts getting a jump start.

[terox 316]

ask yourself the question

If you wear combat trousers

are you wearing them because your are paid too

or

are you wearing them because you wanted to join the military But.........

Thoses are big things when its your fellow countrymen dude and when you have to pay for the gas to go to and from work and its also would be big thing when its your nuts getting a jump start.

1)They are more than my fellow countrymen, many are ex colleagues

2) "Dude" i see as being a typicaly drugged up US college kid

I fear i cannot aspire to such a standard and therefore i dont feel i deserve such a title

3) I do pay for petrol in pounds sterling, so really I DO REALLY REALLY pay for it

4) and been there done that got the T shirt

I dont expect you to understand and i dont feel a requirement to teach you.

[FerretFangs 0]

But yet the effort required to blather on is well within your capability. Care to prattle on?

[quicksand 0]

Sent to Rescue Shiite Hostages, Iraqi Troops Find None

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq, April 17 - Anyone in Baghdad this morning could have been forgiven for thinking the country was on the verge of civil war.

Three Iraqi Army battalions had surrounded the town of Madaen, just south of the capital, where Sunni kidnappers were said to be threatening to kill hundreds of Shiite hostages unless all Shiites left the town. As the national assembly met, Iraq's top political figures warned of a grave sectarian crisis. Iraq's most revered Shiite cleric issued a plea for restraint. Even the outgoing prime minister released a statement decrying the "savage, filthy, and dirty atrocities" in Madaen.

But as the army battalions arrived in Madaen, they saw streets full of people calmly sipping tea in cafés and going about their business. There were no armed Sunni mobs, no cowering Shiite victims. After hours of careful searches, the soldiers assisted by air surveillance found no evidence of any kidnappings or refugees at all.

By this afternoon, Iraqi army officials were reporting that the crisis in Madaen, which had been narrated in a stream of breathless television reports and news agency stories, was nothing but a tissue of rumors and politically motivated accusations.

The hysteria over Madaen was one vivid illustration of the way Iraq's daily violence and sectarian tension, which are real enough, can be easily twisted into fantasy here. In a country where phones are unreliable and roads between cities often blocked, facts can give way to a fast-running engine of rumor. And most people have good reason to believe the worst.

The wild rumors are also an index of Iraq's current political turmoil. Some of the early reports about the Madaen kidnappings on Friday night came from Shiite political figures who are bitterly angry at the outgoing government of Dr. Ayad Allawi. In the past, some Shiites have been quick to emphasize any hints that his government may be losing control.

The Shiites' anger at Dr. Allawi, a secular Shiite and former Baathist, stems in part from his decision to rehire a number of other former Baathists into the government and military. Like the Kurds, Iraqi's Shiites were brutally oppressed by Saddam Hussein's Baathist government.

Dr. Allawi handed in his resignation as prime minister last week, but the new Shiite-led coalition government has yet to take power, and many of its members are impatient.

"We are in a political vacuum," said Sabah Kadhim, a spokesman for Iraq's outgoing interior minister. "Politicians will be politicians, but I blame them for not forming a government quickly enough."

The rumors in Madaen did not grow from nothing. A group of traveling Shiites was kidnapped last week near the town, 10 miles south of Baghdad, Iraqi Interior Ministry officials said today. That generated a retaliatory kidnapping of a group of Sunnis by Shiites a few days later.

Sunni Arabs and Shiites have clashed often in the area south of Baghdad, particularly the lawless zone known as the Triangle of Death, which is northeast of Madaen.

On Friday night, Interior Ministry officials said the police in Madaen were reporting that a group of Sunnis with roots in Anbar Province, where sectarian tensions have risen lately, had kidnapped three Shiites and were threatening to kill them unless all Shiites agreed to leave the town.

The story, with its overtones of Bosnia-style ethnic cleansing, quickly grew. On Saturday Iraqiya television reported that 150 hostages had been taken. Western news agencies began reporting that Shiites were fleeing Madaen and seeking refuge to the south, and that Iraqi army units were preparing to sweep into the town.

Residents in the town played down the reports on Saturday. But a bomb exploded in a Shiite mosque in Madain, fanning the notion of a sectarian conflict. No one was injured in the blast, which left the mosque in ruins.

By this morning, the story had become the first agenda at the week's first national assembly meeting. National Security Minister Qasem Dawood briefed the assembly members on the crisis and the military's plan to encircle and pacify the town.

"There is an attempt to drag this country into civil war," he said.

A Shiite assembly member, Jalal Adin al-Saghir, told the gathered members of riots, and lashed out angrily at Dr. Allawi's government for not protecting the people. Another influential member told of mines that had been placed around Madaen by terrorists, and spoke of the events there as "a kind of ethnic purge."

Not to be outdone, Dr. Allawi issued his own comment later in the day. "These wild acts of destroying peaceful homes, kidnapping innocent people, and assaulting properties and families will not go without punishment," he said in a statement about the events in Madaen.

Iraq's most revered Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, made phone calls to government officials and urged them to solve the crisis in Madaen peacefully.

Before long, the reactions to the crisis took on a sectarian coloring of their own. This afternoon a prominent group of hard-line Sunni clerics held a news conference and issued a statement, saying the Madaen crisis was a fabrication to stoke animosity against Sunnis.

Even Abu Musab al Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist who is Iraq's most wanted man, weighed in. His network, Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, issued a statement on Islamist Web sites saying the kidnappings were a fabrication by Iraqi and American authorities. The statement went on to say it was the Iraqi army and police who rounded up people in Madaen, and the victims were Sunnis, not Shiites.

In the end, the Iraqi army officers who searched Madaen delivered their own, more balanced verdict.

"This issue was exaggerated for political reasons related to the formation of the new government," said Maj. Gen. Mudhir Mola Abboud of the Iraqi army. "We entered the city and did not find any hostages."

As I've said,I just coulnd't find a motivation for this to happen and my suspicion is now validated.

This,while humiliating,is also a very weak start for the Iraqi government,which could anger the Sunnis further for their outrageus accusations.It should also be a lesson for the mainstream media which should be from now on be more careful in taking reports from Al-Iraqya or other  government sources without carfully inspecting them first,some agencies are still reporting 12 famillies were freed and that armed Sunnis in black clothers are roaming part of the village in cars.Kind of curious to see that Al-Queda in Iraq and Islamic Army in Iraq prooved to be the most reliable sources in this case.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Oil has not reached the speculators desired price yet expect some more panic along the lines of Shiites attacking Sunnis to inflame the situation.

Of course the other option is for a threat to one of the other main oil producer regions. The specualtor buddies of TBA have bets for 60 and 70 dollar oil prices over the next 3 or 4 months.

They will continue to use panic storeys to drive up the price.

Of course if lots of people start saying they are trying to panic up the price with their fake oil shortage scam then TBA's buddies in the speculators (at least the dumber more stupid ones) will be left holding the bag just the same as they were in the ENRON fake power shortage scam in California that lead to the recall vote.

Kind Regards Walker

[miles teg 1]

Terox, with your attitude, we should then give a finger to the rest of the world and say, "Ya know what, people have always gotten fucked over, so who gives a rats ass as long as I'm not the one getting shafted." That kind of "I don't give a shit about the rest of the world or what my country is doing to other countries" is a big part of the problem. Its not until there is some type of massive crisis that people begin to care which is why I kinda hope that the United States will start up a draft. THEN people will start caring and fully excercising their political right to organize, protest, and flex political muscle.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[FerretFangs 0]

Miles, You want a draft because it gives you the opportunity to say, " I told you TBA would reinstate the draft!".

It would be in keeping with what your side claimed he'd do. Until he does you've got egg on your face.

You've got an agenda. Might as well own up to it.

That said, unless there's a nuclear/biological/chemical attack on the US from some terrorist organization, I'd say the chance of a draft is about nil. The military does not want it, the administration does not want it, and Congress, except for a handful of nut cases- don't want it. It's not going to happen unless it's REALLY needed.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]8) Retarded idiots add over 100 posts to a thread voicing opinions that nobody in power gives a rats ass for

Well yours is the 101st then! Warm welcome "retard"!

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]8) Retarded idiots add over 100 posts to a thread voicing opinions that nobody in power gives a rats ass for

Well yours is the 101st then! Warm welcome "retard"!

Was wondering if anyone was going to notice that he just flamed us all.

And the delicious irony that he posted his opinion that no one gives a rat's ass about was just too precious.

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]8) Retarded idiots add over 100 posts to a thread voicing opinions that nobody in power gives a rats ass for

Well yours is the 101st then! Warm welcome "retard"!

Was wondering if anyone was going to notice that he just flamed us all.

Theres a difference between noticing and giving a rat's ass as he put it.

[FerretFangs 0]

*Ahem* I noticed.

Quote[/b] ]But yet the effort required to blather on is well within your capability. Care to prattle on?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

*Ahem* I noticed.

Quote[/b] ]But yet the effort required to blather on is well within your capability. Care to prattle on?

yes, but that is sophisticated rethoric none of us foreigners will ever understand!

[FerretFangs 0]

LOL.

[terox 316]

some fish will feed on any old crap

and if moses hadnt shafted allah in the first place....

[ralphwiggum 6]

...I'd PR you

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]1)They are more than my fellow countrymen, many are ex colleagues

I highly doubt that........

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]SAN FRANCISCO - A woman who founded a humanitarian group to aid civilian casualties in Iraq has died in a car bombing in Baghdad, officials said Sunday.

Marla Ruzicka, founder of Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, died Saturday in the blast, which also killed an Iraqi and another foreigner, officials said. She had been in Iraq conducting door-to-door surveys trying to determine the number of civilian casualties in the country.

Ruzicka, 28, founded CIVIC in 2003 to "mitigate the impact of the conflict and its aftermath on the people of Iraq by ensuring that timely and effective life-saving assistance is provided to those in need," according to the group's Web site.

Ruzicka's parents said Sunday they were notified of her death just hours after the explosion. U.S. Embassy officials publicly released Ruzicka's name Sunday.

"We've been very worried about her but we know better than to tell our children not to do anything. We were supportive and just reminded her to be careful," said her mother, Nancy Ruzicka, of Lakeport.

She said her daughter had left her a telephone message the night before her death that said, "Mom and dad, I love you. I'm OK."

"She cared about people and gave people her love and help," Nancy Ruzicka said. "I'll remember the love she spread around the world and the good ambassador that she was for her country."

Ruzicka got her start working for non-governmental organizations 10 years ago at the San Francisco-based human rights group Global Exchange.

"It's a terrible tragedy and a tragic irony that somebody who devoted her life to helping the victims of war would herself become a victim of war," said Medea Benjamin, the group's director.

Source

[quicksand 0]

I know that tragedies like this occour daily in Iraq at a far larger scale with people just as extraordinary but this affects me personaly,as in a way I knew that women,visiting her site periodicly and reading her journal  

This young,beautiful blond really was one the good ones.Convincing the US military to help rebuild the homes they destroyed,compensate the famillies they've killed is what really makes a difference,when most people at her age are made only of words and always come short of delivering anything they talk so much about.

http://www.civicworldwide.org/

R.I.P Marla

[theavonlady 2]

visiting her site periodicly and reading her journal

A different journal.

[walker 0]

Hi all

It is a sad day when one of those who do good gets killed in Iraq.

To then castigate them for doing good is truly sick.

It seems some people's lust for vengence has caused them to loose all ethical, moral or even religious perspective. Truly such peoples minds run to nothing but evil.

Sadly Walker

[theavonlady 2]

Gee, Walker, you're sort of touchy today.

[miles teg 1]

Miles, You want a draft because it gives you the opportunity to say, " I told you TBA would reinstate the draft!".

It would be in keeping with what your side claimed he'd do. Until he does you've got egg on your face.

You've got an agenda. Might as well own up to it.

That said, unless there's a nuclear/biological/chemical attack on the US from some terrorist organization, I'd say the chance of a draft is about nil. The military does not want it, the administration  does not want it, and Congress, except for a handful of nut cases- don't want it. It's not going to happen unless it's REALLY needed.

AH FERRET FANGS YOU HAVE UNCOVERED MY SIIIIIIINISTER PLAN!!! DRAT! NOW I MUST FINDZZZ ZEE NEW METHOD OF TAKING OVER THE US GOVERNMENT!

LOL!

Seriously. I just got finished saying in that last post why I would welcome a draft. But you are basically calling me a liar and don't want to believe me. Thats fine. Militant Muslims think much in the same way. They refuse to believe things said by infidels because automatically infidels are influenced by the Shiatan (Satan). Most American conservatives tend to think this way about those damned God hating, tree hugging, baby killing, Arab loving, gun hating, pot smoking, hippy commie liberals who will burn in hell.

I just find it amusing that you believe you can read my mind.

But I'm afraid you can't because I don't care about saying "I told you so." If did then I would repeat over and over all the stuff I predicted before the war and repeat it over and over about how I was right, but I don't do that because I feel more disgusted about the whole Iraq war affair and I'm more angry that what I had talked about came true because I wasn't the only one who predicted what would happen. Plenty of junior level intelligence analysts did the same and were ignored by the Bush administration.

I would like to see the draft because it would finally knock some sense into the upper middle class folk in America when they realized that their little Johny Silverspoon may get shipped off to Iraq against his will to go fight a war for oil in a highly hostile country where we simply are not welcomed.

The vast majority of soldiers fighting now in Iraq come from families of lower socioeconomic classes.

Right now these soldiers are volunteers. However a draft means that men will go fight often against their will in an unpopular war. The Vietnam War took many years before the anti-war movement started gathering steam. The same would occur if a draft started. However it likely would only start if we invaded Iran. There is simply no other way to have enough manpower unless Bush pulls off a miracle and somehow convinces the rest of the world to help us invade Iran.

What are the chances of that?

At any rate, I would be overjoyed if Iraq did somehow become stable and all of this worked out in the end. But I don't see that happening in the current climate of the Middle East where Islamic fundamentalists now see how terrorism has politically empowered them in a way that they've never had before. They also do not trust an American set up democracy and quite frankly I don't blame them as we have had a long history of installing governments in the developing world and of helping to rig elections and stage coups.

The Shah of Iran was an example of one of the stooges we installed. What we see in Iran now is largely the result of a backlash against our meddling in Iranian affairs. Saddam Hussein was also largely a monster of our making who we supported heavily against Iran until he started gassing his own people and until he stupidly invaded Kuwait and shut out American corporations from lucrative Iraqi oil development and defense contracts and instead gave them to the French and Russians.

At any rate, I don't want to see Bush fall flat on his face. I want to see him start making some smart decisions rather then simply playing into the hands of terrorists with his blind ideologically driven mindset. He even admits this himself in a recent interview yesterday when someone asked him about the American economic situation and he said (paraphrasing), "Look there's alot of statitics showing all kinds of things, but all I know to do is to stick to my ideological principles to see us through."

It was really quite stunning and shows a lack of intellect or willingness to try and grasp complex economic issues from many different perspectives. He is the same way when it comes to fighting terrorism. I most definitely DO NOT enjoy seeing Bush act like this. I wish he would grow as a leader and try to think outside the box a bit.

So anyways, you can believe what you want to believe...but I think your ideas about me needing to be "right" and to be self righteous are simply a reflection of your own beliefs.

It's human nature to often see our own shortcomings in other people but never in ourselves when in fact we are guilty of doing exactly what we accuse others of doing.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>