The Iraq thread 4

[walker 0]

Hi All

I do not believe the www.tehrantimes.com same as do not believe fox news they are both a pair of pravdas in my opinion. Come back when its in the Washington post or the BBC or The Times or CBS or Telegraph or La Monde or Das Spiegal or Reuters or AP or even the Sun which is marginaly better than Fox News.

Kind Regards Walker

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraq's new transitional assembly took an expected but historic step Wednesday, electing Kurdish leader Jalal Talabani as the nation's president -- a symbol of the new Kurdish clout in the largely Arab nation.

The vote was largely a formality and the role largely ceremonial, but the selection of a Kurdish president was a poignant, symbolic moment for a country where Kurds were persecuted under Saddam Hussein's Sunni Arab regime.

Talabani, the longtime leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, now has the title Saddam held before he was ousted from power two years ago.

In a televised session made available to Saddam and 10 of his jailed henchmen, Talabani addressed the 275-member body, striking themes of unity among the country's different ethnicities and religions.

"I will carry out my duties as head of the presidential council, and I will acknowledge your trust and trust of the Iraqi people, who have freely elected you in our free Iraq," Talabani told the body.

Saddam and his 10 associates, all facing war crimes trials and long blacked out from seeing or reading the news, were allowed to watch a TV feed of the assembly meeting, Iraqi officials said.

It has not been confirmed how much of the assembly session the men actually watched.

"They will be seeing what's happening in Iraq for the first time since the fall of the regime," said Bakhtiar Amin, the country's interim human rights minister.

Talabani, in what was essentially an inaugural address, paid tribute to the Kurds in the northern part of the country and the Shiites in the south, who died fighting the Saddam regime.

Talabani envisioned reaching "national independence" for Iraq and "the circumstances in which we will no longer need the support and help of the multinational forces."

"This will be achieved by fully building our Iraq security forces. All of this will lead Iraq to its normal position in the Arabic and Islamic world," he said.

He stressed democracy and national unity, urged Iraq's neighbors to do more to thwart the insurgency, and said he favored laws with a secular underpinning but that respected Iraq's Islamic identity.

Talabani said Iraq's experiment in democracy could have an impact beyond its borders, particularly mentioning the Palestinian issue.

Along with Talabani, two deputy presidents were chosen by the assembly: Shiite Arab Adel Abdel Mahdi, a member of the United Iraqi Alliance who served as interim finance minister, and Sunni Arab Sheikh Ghazi al-Yawar, who served as the previous interim president.

They are expected to be sworn in Thursday.

The first duty of the three, who comprise what is called the presidency council, is to name a prime minister and a Cabinet, a choice that would have to be approved by the transitional assembly.

Shiite leader Ibrahim al-Jaafari is expected to become prime minister on Thursday.

Cabinet appointments have been allocated after weeks of hard political bargaining. Although many of the positions have been decided, it is not known who is envisioned for some key positions, including the oil and defense ministries.

The main goal of the transitional government is to write a permanent constitution that will be put to the voters in a referendum later this year. If and when that is approved, a new, permanent government will be elected.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Ralph.. I can go to CNN myself! I thought we all agreed we only post articles when they support our argumentation instead of simply being a newsupdate!

[ralphwiggum 6]

oops. sometimes i tend to think that my arguments are getting broadcasted.

the election of a Kurd president to head iraq is a good step towards future Iraq. hopefully this will pacify some radical Kurds who want their own soverign nation, which would be another bad thing for Turks.

however, the flame of internal war still lingers. Sunnis are not in wholeheartedly, and who knows how they will react? just a few weeks ago, there was a parliamentary disagreement over power sharing.

[quicksand 0]

An Old U.S. Foe Rises Again in Iraq

Quote[/b] ]GHARAF, Iraq -- Over the loudspeakers set up in this small town in a backwater of southern Iraq, the commands came in staccato bursts. "Forward!" a man clad in black shouted to the militiamen. "March!"

Column after column followed through the dusty, windswept square. Some of the marchers wore the funeral shawls of prospective martyrs. Others were dressed in newly pressed camouflage. Together, their boots beat the pavement like a drum as they goose-stepped or double-timed in place.

Over their heads flew the Iraqi flag, banners of Shiite Muslim saints and a portrait of their leader, Moqtada Sadr -- symbols of their militia, the Mahdi Army, twice subdued by the U.S. military last year but now openly displaying its strength in parts of the south.

"At your service, Sadr! At your service, Moqtada!" the men chanted in formation. "We hear a voice calling us!"

"The tanks do not terrify us," others joined in. "We're resisting! We're resisting!"

The military parade this week lasted an hour, long enough for 700 men brandishing swords, machetes and not a few guns to pass a viewing stand of turbaned clerics and townspeople gathered in front of low-slung brick buildings.

It was also long enough for the militiamen to deliver the message that has distinguished their organization from Iraq's other Shiite groups -- implacable hostility toward the U.S. occupation. They delivered it far beyond the purview of the U.S. military, in one of the many towns and cities in southern Iraq where the Mahdi Army has emerged as kingmaker, and where the lines between authority and lawlessness are still ambiguous.

Iraq's most prominent religious leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, stepped between the Mahdi Army and the U.S. military in Najaf last August, ending fighting that destroyed parts of Iraq's most sacred Shiite city. Since then, an uneasy truce has held there and in Karbala, another holy city, and in the vast Baghdad slum known as Sadr City.

U.S. military officials say they believe the toll they inflicted during last year's fighting sapped the young cleric's support. While still a threat, the militia is less so than when it first took up arms in April 2004, the officials say.

"We believe Moqtada's militia is generally marginalized, and there is little to be gained from taking a military role," said Lt. Col. Bob Taylor, chief intelligence officer for the 3rd Infantry Division, which oversees Baghdad. "But it could still be a threat."

Beyond Baghdad, though, Iraqis see a new boldness in the militia in cities like Nasiriyah, Basra and Amarah, all south of the capital and all patrolled by foreign forces allied with the United States.

In Basra, the Mahdi Army is widely viewed as the force that can put more armed men in the street than any other. Amarah remains its stronghold. In Nasiriyah, it has struck an alliance with the secular police chief, who views the group as a counterweight to other militias.

"The silent majority is not with him, but the majority of active people are," said Ayatollah Mohammed Taqi Mudarrassi, a cleric in Karbala, referring to Sadr. "If you count the ballot boxes, the balance is with the moderates. If you count those in the streets, it's the opposite."

The enduring appeal of Sadr's militia speaks to the forces still shaping Iraq: nationalism, religion and guns.

For the militia, the axis on which those forces spin is the messianic cult of personality the movement has built around Sadr. The movement maintains a presence in the U.S.-backed political process -- about two dozen sympathizers serve in Iraq's new parliament. But it fosters the militia as insurance, a political calculation based on a much older notion of Iraqi politics: Arms and the men who wield them convey power and ensure survival.

Time and again, after battles that left hundreds of Sadr's followers dead, the movement has managed to rewrite the notion of winning and losing: The very act of fighting is a victory. There is no defeat.

"We still have the weapons, we still have the army, and we still have the leader," said Sahib Amari, a spokesman for Sadr in Kufa, where the movement came of age in the weeks after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003.

Prayers and Politics

 

The Friday prayers at the Kufa mosque, the shrine a few miles from Najaf where Sadr's father preached in the 1990s and where his son built his movement after the U.S. invasion, are akin to street theater. Religion is less pronounced than politics, and politics helps to rally the thousands of men who gather each week in the open-air courtyard.

"Long live Sadr!" the men chant as they file through the arched brick entrance. "Moqtada is the bridge to heaven!"

The prayers led by members of Sadr's movement have long drawn some of the largest crowds in post-invasion Iraq -- in Baghdad and Kufa. The numbers seem to have dwindled little, if at all, over the past year.

Just as constant is the message of protest, delivered in the sermon by Nasser Saadi, a rousing, swaggering cleric built like a wrestler. The enemies of the Shiites are not their Sunni brothers, he insisted. The adversaries of Iraq are not fellow Arab countries.

"I am addressing my call to the honest Iraqi people who stand against the occupation, who reject the occupation and who demand freedom," he shouted, dressed as others in a funeral shawl. "The enemy is one enemy, and that enemy is the occupier."

The crowd erupted, fists in the air: "No to the occupier! No to terrorism! No to the devil!"

"Wherever America is present, then there is terrorism," Saadi said. "When they ask the terrorists why they're here, they say we came to fight America. If America leaves, there would be no terrorism. Terrorism would leave with it."

In the mosque, and the markets that spring up around it each Friday, what has changed during the past year is the emphasis of the appeal the movement makes to the poor and young. Gone is the celebration of Sadr's father, a revered cleric assassinated in 1999. In its stead is the cult built around his son and a glorification of arms.

In posters spread out on plastic mats, Moqtada Sadr's image hovered over portraits of Mahdi Army militiamen waving rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns and rocket launchers.

"Victorious by force and faith, God willing," one read.

Growing Resistance

Najah Musawi is the Mahdi Army's version of a fighting priest.

A 30-year-old from Kut with seven years in the Shiite seminary, he fought in both battles last year in Najaf. He was armed with an AK-47 assault rifle; his wife helped cook rice and lentils for his fighters posted along a famous street that leads to Najaf's gold-domed Imam Ali shrine. To his men, he was simply Sayyid Najah, an honorific bestowed on clerics descended from the prophet Muhammad.

"Clerics are themselves fighters," said Musawi, a gaunt man with a wispy beard. "We defend our doctrine and our principles."

Najaf still bears the scars of last year's fighting. Along main roads, rubble occasionally spills into the streets. With time, it has faded into the ramshackle brick construction of many of Najaf's houses. Some walls are still charred, and bullet holes puncture the facades of buildings and the colonnade in the street where Musawi and his men fought.

Stories of the fighting and death they encountered have become celebrated among the militiamen, another chapter in what they fashion as a legitimate uprising against the Americans. Musawi recalled how they faced tanks with their Kalashnikovs, how they recited the Koran over gunfire, how they fought on four hours' sleep, and how his six brothers served with him, one of them with shrapnel in his right leg.

"In those last days, 10 fighters would share one bottle of water," he recalled.

These days, Musawi said, he commands 500 fresh recruits in Nasiriyah. He heads one of 18 Sadr offices in the city, all of which have their own militia units. There are no ranks, he said, only platoon and company commanders. As in Amarah and Basra, rumors are rife of the militia gathering more arms and men.

"We stood up to the Americans for 21 days, day and night, and the spirit of resistance is still there," he said. "If we get an order to resist the occupation, we'll do it -- with more determination, more numbers, more experience and more skills."

Making Local Allies

Sheik Aws Khafaji is Sadr's representative in Nasiriyah and Musawi's boss. Khafaji, 32, joined the seminary in 1996, then spent more than two years in prison. Gen. Mohammed Hajami is the provincial police chief. At 47, he is a father of eight. He served 24 years in the Iraqi military, reaching the rank of colonel. He considers himself insistently secular.

On Feb. 10, their paths began to converge. Before long, the Mahdi Army and the Nasiriyah police would be staunch allies.

That night in February, Hajami said, 70 men attacked his office with machine guns, small arms and grenades. The gunmen belonged to the Badr Brigades, a militia loyal to one of Iraq's biggest Shiite parties and a rival of the Mahdi Army; the gunmen were angry that the government had dismissed their leader and appointed Hajami. More than 30 of his policemen took part in what he called an attempted hit.

The next day, Khafaji denounced the attack in his Friday sermon. He said the gunmen weren't Badr Brigades, they were ghadr -- Arabic for betrayal.

Those words were the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

"It's a matter of balance," Hajami explained.

"Without the presence of the Sadr current, the Badr forces would seize every government building in the province. From my point of view, their presence is useful to us," he said. "We heard the Badr forces would like to do it again, so the Sadr people warned them, 'If you try it another time, we're going to throw your bodies into the streets.' "

A billboard-size painting of Sadr's father stands at the entrance to the police station, protected by rows of sand-filled barricades. On the wall of the reception room, in a glass case, was a copy of Saadi's sermon in Kufa, a call to gather for a Sadr-led protest in Baghdad this coming Saturday and a leaflet from the Sadr office titled, "The First Letter from Sayyid Moqtada Sadr to the Iraqi Police."

"You are from the people, and the people are from you as long as you detest the occupier and refuse the oppressor," it read.

Hajami says he is steadfastly pro-American but that survival is survival. His 5,500-man force is 2,500 short of what he said he needed to guarantee security. He suspects just 30 percent are loyal to him; the rest answer to the city's handful of Islamic parties. So, in a city where alliances are necessary, the Mahdi Army is his ally, he said.

"The Sadr trend has the biggest popular influence in the streets," Hajami said. "The relations are good, and there is cooperation. We keep in touch. Any problem that happens, I call them and see if they need help, or they call me."

Unyielding Message

Hajami was invited to the military parade this week in Gharaf, about 12 miles north of Nasiriyah. He didn't attend, but four of his police cars provided a high-speed escort, with sirens and loudspeakers, for Khafaji and other Sadr leaders. A few militiamen with bandoliers and heavy machine guns rode in the back, clad in the trademark black of the Mahdi Army.

At the parade, the Mahdi Army provided security. About 30 men in new uniforms, ammunition belts and assault rifles were posted on roofs and in the street. Another militiaman toted a rocket-propelled grenade launcher in the background.

In white turban and clerical robes, Khafaji took the podium.

In private, he can be measured and militant. In one sentence, he will denounce the U.S. presence, warning of calamity if American troops fail to depart. In another, he strikes a more mainstream, nationalist tone -- outreach to Sunnis, cooperation with police, even holding out the prospect of formal participation in the political process once the Americans leave.

At Gharaf, he spoke to the militia assembled before him but addressed his words to the Americans.

"There is no place in the land of Mahdi except for the people of Mahdi," he shouted. "There is no place for you on this ground. Our people exist to force you out by means that are peaceful and then by means that are military.

"We are able to do that," he said, "God willing."

Very good read.Such is nature of one of the many faces this war has.Indeed by simply fighting,Sadr achieved some sort of victory and glorification.When ever he faces an opponent with different view he can rise above and ask "Where were you when we gave our blood for a month on Najaf streets"; "Look at what the US occupation brought to us,I am the only one who had the guts to fight them".

I have no doubt he has political aspirations rooted in his thoughts as I have no doubt his comitment to US departure is sincere.It will be intresting to follow how he will play his cards next.Right now he appears in a very good position,strong connections with various groups that don't even share his views,his following left untamed by the bloody uprising and is the only one who has a reaching to the Sunnis and those feeling represented by violent resistance.

Hell I even think in a way Iraq will be better off with him a leader.Again,he is a Shia(part of the majority of Iraq's population) while in the same time reaching out to the Sunni groups,but most importantly he can be singled out from Iraq's major players in politics as the only one who can stop once and for all the overwhelming majority of insugents.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hell I even think in a way Iraq will be better off with him a leader.Again,he is a Shia(part of the majority of Iraq's population) while in the same time reaching out to the Sunni groups,but most importantly he can be singled out from Iraq's major players in politics as the only one who can stop once and for all the overwhelming majority of insugents.

Good ole Sadr

taken from that article...

Quote[/b] ]"I am addressing my call to the honest Iraqi people who stand against the occupation, who reject the occupation and who demand freedom," he shouted, dressed as others in a funeral shawl. "The enemy is one enemy, and that enemy is the occupier."

I guess students are their enemies too down in Basra.

Quote[/b] ]Attack stirs debate on Islam's role

College students demand an apology and end of the dreaded campus morality police after March melee.

By Anthony Shadid / Washington Post

BASRA, Iraq -- Celia Garabet thought students were roughhousing. Sinan Saeed was sure a fight had erupted. Within a few minutes, on a sunny day at a riverside park, they realized something different was afoot.

A group of Shiite Muslim militiamen with rifles, pistols, thick wire cables and sticks had charged into crowds of hundreds at a college picnic. They fired shots, beat students and hauled some of them away in pickup trucks. The transgressions: men dancing and singing, music playing and couples mixing.

That melee on March 15 and its fallout have redrawn the debate that has shadowed Iraq's second-largest city since the U.S. invasion in 2003: What is the role of Islam in daily life? In once-libertine Basra, a battered port in southern Iraq near the Persian Gulf, the question dominates everything these days, from the political parties in power to the style of dress in the streets.

In the days that followed the melee, hundreds of students, angry about the injuries and arrests, marched on the school administration building and then the governor's office, demanding an apology and, more important, the dissolution of the dreaded campus morality police.

The militiamen who attacked the picnickers at first boasted of stamping out debauchery, even distributing videos of the event. But, gauging the popular revulsion, they later admitted to what they termed mistakes. The governor, an Islamic activist, urged dialogue to calm a roiling city and deemed the case closed, even as students insisted they remained unsatisfied.

To many in Basra the students managed what no local party or politician had yet done: They interrupted, if briefly, a tide of religious conservatism that has shuttered liquor stores in a city that once had dozens, meted out arbitrary justice and encouraged women to wear a veil and dress in a way considered modest.

" The victory may be fleeting in a city where Islamic activism and guns often go hand in hand. Even in their moment of triumph, many secular students acknowledge they are fighting a losing battle; some suggest it is already lost.

University officials said 15 students were seriously injured in the fracas. The militiamen detained about 10 students, who were taken to the local office of the Sadr movement -- those loyal to Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr --before being released that evening. By all accounts, police were present in force but did not intervene.

In the Sadr movement's office, Heidar Jabari acknowledged excesses but defended the action. "There was a mistake in our execution, but we had the right to intervene," he said.

Jabari said he had warned students two days before the incident that the picnic was inappropriate. Shiites were observing the sacred month of Muharram, he said, and a suicide bomb had recently killed 125 people in the southern city of Hilla. "The blood from there was still fresh," he said. "No one listened to us."

Jabari conceded that students were hurt and the beatings "went beyond what was legitimate." But, he added, "They say freedom means they can do what they want. This is not freedom. Freedom does not mean you can transgress traditions. There are traditions and rules in an Eastern society that are different from a Western society. Every Iraqi has a right to act against these transgressions."

The day after the picnic, the students convened again. This time, they said, they planned to head to the governor's office. Police tried to block their path, firing shots into the air at the gate, but they managed to leave through another exit in 15 school buses. Once at the governor's office, they found hundreds of students from smaller colleges and a few high schools already gathered. Inside, the governor met with members of the city council and the Sadr movement, student representatives and school officials.

Two hours later, students recalled, Mohammed Abadi, the president of the city council, emerged. The students' demands would be met, he declared. He read a text from a microphone mounted on a police car outside the office, going over each demand.

"We will compensate what was lost," students recalled Abadi saying.

"What was stolen!" someone shouted from the crowd, correcting Abadi.

Following Abadi's statement, city officials and Sadr's movement treated the matter as closed.

"The issue is settled," said Mohammed Musabah, who took over as governor of Basra the day of the melee. He acknowledged that police had not arrested anyone, as students had demanded. But, he said in an interview, "We spoke with them in a stern tone. Both sides wanted to resolve it by way of dialogue."

Few students last week said they were thinking about dialogue. Nor did they seem to believe their demands had been met.

Saeed said that as he passed out leaflets during the protests, a student sympathetic to Moqtada Sadr tapped his shoulder. "Be careful," he said he was told menacingly. On the wall at the campus gate, scrawled in black, graffiti reads, "Basra remains Moqtada's Basra."

"For a moment, we felt the strength of our voices," Saeed said. "We were making up our own minds."

But, "You can see on campus that students are still scared to speak."

He is more becoming like those "big men" that destroyed a lot of the African countries.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]I guess students are their enemies too down in Basra.

Two years Billybob and you still fail to understand that if Iraq is ever to work it will be because of compromise.The new Iraqi government seems to understand manifested in a willigness to negotiate with the insurgents,hell because of compromise the government was formed after more then a month of intense argueing.

Iraq is still shattered in infrastructure and economy.Iraq is still plagued by a powerful and violent insurgency.This is two years after the war started and this problems won't go away any soon because of the ellections.Have a look at the most powerful man right now,it's Jafari.Quite far from the western-friendly secular figure TBA invisioned.

Even though the article you posted compared to other events in Iraq is debatably worthwhile it raises more some the problem of Islamic culture then that of Sadr ideology.Make no mistake about it,Sadr is not by any means untainted or an angel but who of the main figures really is?And as I've said he just might be the man Iraq needs to put an end to the insurgency,calm down the Sunni community and help the country move on.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I guess students are their enemies too down in Basra.

Two years Billybob and you still fail to understand that if Iraq is ever to work it will be because of compromise.The new Iraqi government seems to understand manifested in a willigness to negotiate with the insurgents,hell because of compromise the government was formed after more then a month of intense argueing.

Iraq is still shattered in infrastructure and economy.Iraq is still plagued by a powerful and violent insurgency.This is two years after the war started and this problems won't go away any soon because of the ellections.Have a look at the most powerful man right now,it's Jafari.Quite far from the western-friendly secular figure TBA invisioned.

Even though the article you posted compared to other events in Iraq is debatably worthwhile it raises more some the problem of Islamic culture then that of Sadr ideology.Make no mistake about it,Sadr is not by any means untainted or an angel but who of the main figures really is?And as I've said he just might be the man Iraq needs to put an end to the insurgency,calm down the Sunni community and help the country move on.

What is Sadr ideology? A form of Islamic influence. The detained innocent students were taking to a Sadr office because they did not back down of Sadr edict. It was not the Islamic culture but a Sadr edict that led to this violence. The iraqi govt. should not use Sadr because it would make the govt. look very weak and make Sadr poweful. Furthermore, Sadr is using the same tacits that gave rise to the "big men" of Africa and Iraq does not need that. The Iraqi govt. not Sadr needs to solve the problem because wants the point having a govt. if they can't deal with that problem. Ultimately, the Iraqi govt will have to find a way to marginalize him.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Indeed, or incorporate him, which essentially is what quicKsanD is proposing. Lets face it, the world hasnt come to an end, even though the Bush Administration screwed up on predicting the post war situation Iraq is more or less recovering and the insurgents do not have wide enough support to continue indefinately. Smile, sing la de da de da de da dinga linga ling.

More people die of AIDs.

[quicksand 0]

Al-Sadr supporters gather in Baghdad square to deman US withdrawl

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD (AFP)

Tens of thousands of protestors poured into Baghdad's Firdos square to demand US troops leave the country, as 15 Iraqi soldiers were killed in a roadside bombing.

Chanting "No, no, USA," protesters converged Saturday on the square, a symbol of the ouster of former president Saddam Hussein, two years to the day since Baghdad fell to US forces.

The rally -- organized by anti-US cleric Moqtada Sadr -- is believed to be the largest demonstration since US troops entered the country.

"Oh God, cut off their necks, the way they are cutting off our necks and terrorising us," said Sadr representative Sheikh Nasir al-Saaidi, reading a speech from his boss. "There will be no peace, no security, until the occupation leaves."

Iraqi flags fluttered in the sea of demonstrators, many of whom were dressed in black, the uniform of Sadr's Mehdi Army militia. Many wore green and black Islamic headbands.

Some waved the notorious picture of a hooded naked Iraqi detainee, with wires attached to his body. It was released during the Abu Ghraib prison scandal last year that blemished the US record in Iraq.

Demonstrators also carried signs saying "No to the occupation," "No to the devil" as they descended on the square from north, east and west.

Radical preachers had called Friday for the rally in Firdos Square in central Baghdad where US troops helped haul down a statue of Saddam in celebrated footage that was beamed around the world.

Sunni clerics from the Committee of Muslim Scholars, which organized a boycott of historic January elections, also urged followers to join the protest.

"The war has been finished for two years. What did we get? Nothing. Our country has become the centre of terrorism," said Ali Hussein, 30, from Sadr City, who was dressed all in black. "There is no electricity, no services, no nothing."

A shopkeeper from Sadr City, Baqr Mussa, vented frustration at the continuing US presence and the failure by the Americans to execute Saddam. He was dressed in white religious robes, symbolic of martyrdom.

"We are very angry. We don't believe we've just lived two years since the war. All the buildings are still burnt and destroyed," Mussa said. "Saddam is still in the prison and they have not even judged him yet for all his crimes. We are very angry, and we want all the world to hear our voice."

The demonstration was a celebration of Shiite martyrdom, with many waving posters of slain Shiite clerics Ayatollah Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim, assassinated in a car bombing in August 2003 in Najaf, and Sadr's father Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Sadeq Sadr, who was killed in 1999 by Saddam's men.

Sadr rocketed to prominence in the power vacuum after the fall of Saddam two years ago. He quickly founded his thousands-strong Mehdi Army militia and delivered vitriolic sermons demanding US forces exit the country.

In continued violence, a roadside bomb killed 15 Iraqi soldiers and wounded several others Saturday morning in Latifiyah, 40 kilometres (30 miles) south of Baghdad, a defense ministry official said.

A separate attack on a truck convoy killed four truck drivers and wounded four others as they drove from Kut, 172 kilometers south of Bahgdad (132 miles), to the capital, an interior ministry source said.

A Sadr deputy was killed in Baghdad as he was driving to attend the anti-US protext in the capital, a Sadr official said.

Sayed Fadel al-Shoq, deputy director of Sadr's office in the Shiite shrine city of Karbala, was killed in a drive-by shooting at 7:30 am (0330 GMT) in the southern Baghdad district of Dura, the official said. A passenger in the car, also a Sadr official, was wounded.

New prime minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, meanwhile, continued to put together a new government cabinet Saturday, expected within two weeks.

Jaafari's party, the United Iraqi Alliance, will have the important ministries of finance, interior and oil, said senior aide Jawad al-Maliki. A quarter of the 30 or so cabinet posts will go to women, he said.

Kurdish coalition partners will retain the foreign ministry now headed by Hoshyar Zebari and "may get the planning ministry as a consolation for oil which they had been fighting to clinch," al-Maliki said

The Sunni Arabs, who largely boycotted the elections but are being assiduously courted by both sides, will get at least six ministries, including defence, he said.

Quite intresting succesion of events.Looks like his reasurgence was a carefully planned thing.In any case it's an encouraging thing to see they are taking the path of peaceful protests rather bloody resistance.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Yes, if these protests remain peaceful thats true.

Whats interesting is that from the interviews presented the focus of anger, or at least typical complaints (besides the very presence of foreign troops), seem to be the lack of progress in rebuilding and the fact that Iraq has become a centre of (non state) terrorism. I agree with them.

Yet what 'Sadr representative' Sheikh Nasir al-Saaidi is saying-

Quote[/b] ]Oh God, cut off their necks, the way they are cutting off our necks and terrorising us,"...."There will be no peace, no security, until the occupation leaves."

seems to promise a continuation of such a state of affairs.

The point basically is to kick out the foreigners. And who can blame Iraqis for not wanting foreign troops on their streets or being pissed off about Abu Ghraib. Many Iraqis seem to have unrealistic expectations about the rapidity of the rebuilding (and building) process (i dont know what any government could do about that), but whats promising is that the religious and ethnic divides do not seem to be leading to the much discussed prospect of civil war.

I agree with these protesters that foreign troops should leave as soon as possible, but surely the point at which it is possible to leave in this case cannot precede the point at which the successful development of a new broadly respected Iraqi state with functioning police, military and administrative services is observed.

Just because a bunch of Iraqis think all foreign troops should leave immediately it doesnt necessarily mean its the wisest course of action, and i dont think it is.

[ran 0]

[ig]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050409/i/r1883231089.jpg[/img]

hmm french army desert camo trousers ...

I'm wearing a pair of those as I type

[FerretFangs 0]

One thing that's probably not super clear here, as opposed to the reality of being one of them, over there, is the array of force that is hanging over their heads constantly. Many of the worlds best military, and civil service forces are now prowling their streets, getting stronger, faster, sharper, and smarter everyday. They are highly trained, highly motivated, highly skilled, and have the best intelligence, equipment, and logistical support that money can buy.

They operate under a veil of secrecy, and are living secure, with the official protection of the Iraqi government, behind the strongest defenses in Iraq.

And finally, they have a VERY long, and loose leash, with very little restrictions, and government oversight.

"Leaders" like Al Sadr, and his band of merry men, continue to live at the pleasure of the US, and Iraqi governments. Sadr is allowed to live simply because killing a Shiite spiritual leader would upset the applecart. Should he illegitimize his position any more than he already has, by publicly sponsoring attacks against coalition forces, I have no doubt that he can and will be eliminated. We've proven that the Mahdi "Army" is a paper tiger that cannot stand toe to toe against a Coalition force who's been directed to destroy them. And groups of Special Forces are able to interdict them with tremendous violence, while incurring very few losses. What's more, I have no doubt that with the large number of Coalition-friendly young men that are available , and the money to to recruit them, intelligence forces can, have, and will continure to infiltrate the insurgency.

The short of it is this, these young, foolish militants goose-stepping in support of Al Sadr, and his ideolgy, are nothing more than gnats, targets to be gunned down, and blown up when we run out of tolerance for them. It's not difficult for us to kill them. And isn't it interesting that "leaders" like Al Sadr, have no trouble asking them to martyr themselves, in ever-increasing numbers while he remains comfortable, dictating edicts from his mosque. At what point do his followers realize he isn't willing to blow himself up, as they are so willing to do?

I think I'd certainly have a problem with that.

As long as they are willing to bark, without biting, they'll continue to be allowed to draw breath. But should they decide that they need to occupy a large city again, like Fallujah, play time will come to an end, and they'll quickly realize the steel boot of the US military is crushing their throats. I sure wouldn't want to be counted amoungst them as just another statistical body bag filler. Coalition bullets are just too cheap, plentiful, and effective. When and if they want you dead, it's a good bet they'll kill you with a quickness.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I found an interesting picture of how the bomb belts in iraq are constructed.

Can you see the metalic pinballs? That is probably a very lethal shrapnel substitute.

[kerosene 0]

I thought that some kind of chain mail vest at first glance, What are they ball bearings?

I think they've been used quite a bit by bombers, i think the unabomber may have used them too.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Made popular culture by the film Swordfish

[chaztheducky 0]

this way is a little more suttle than that and the ball bearings are not as big. i.e. they can penetraite (jeez i need to learn to spell) less

[walker 0]

Hi All

It is exactly the same as a claymore.

Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

Those are not pinballs. They are metal nuts.

BTW, anyone remember the movie Black Sunday? Same concept.

[FerretFangs 0]

Not that it's important, but I think the term you are looking for is "ball bearings". They could also be called steel shot, or grape shot.

But really, the Isrealis have had to deal with this cowardice for decades now. It's not really new. Palestinians would use nails, screws, nuts, and bolts in their homicide bombs. This is great if you want to kill and main un-armored civilians, but not the best way of taking out frontline infantry.

It's easy to terrorize the weak and unprepared. But most Coalition troops body armor and armored vehicles are impenetrable to this stuff. Sure, you might injure a trooper with a hit to the face or groin but that's not all that likely. Attacks against Coalition troops is decreasing, because we're better protected from BS homicide bombing attacks, and we're basically slaughtering the enemy whenever, and whereever we find them. So what do the insurgent cowards do? They take it out on their own people.

The people this junk is killing is everyday Iraqis trying to piece thier lives back together, and take care of their families. It's kids playing on a corner, women bringing home food to their kids, and policemen who are trying to bring law back to Iraq.

It's nothing but cowardice, evil, and a total disregard for humanity. There is no honor, martyrdom, or mercy in Islam for the murder of fellow Muslims.

[theavonlady 2]

There is no honor, martyrdom, or mercy in Islam for the murder of fellow Muslims.

Unless the fellow Muslim is considered an apostate for his actions or beliefs. This is even more readily accepted when the battle is viewed as one between Sunnis and Shi'ites.

[FerretFangs 0]

Yes, of course. You must forgive me, as my knowledge of Islam is fairly poor.

[denoir 0]

The people this junk is killing is everyday Iraqis trying to piece thier lives back together, and take care of their families. It's kids playing on a corner, women bringing home food to their kids, and policemen who are trying to bring law back to Iraq.

It's nothing but cowardice, evil, and a total disregard for humanity.

Ah yes, unlike using cluster munitions in urban areas or calling in air strikes in densly populated areas or tortuing prisoners.

And then there's of course the Iraq Health ministry report that says that coalition forces are killing more civilians than than the coalition.

As for the Iraqis tring to live their lives, take care of their families - they were doing that back in 2003. Then somebody decided to start dropping bombs on them and killed some 100,000+ civilians in the process. But that of course is brave, good and very humane.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

well and the issue gets even more ridiculous when you see how much attention the american media pay to Terri Schiavo. One single women, already proven to be brain dead is stiring up emotions, makes people demonstrate on the streets, repeating our christian duties over and over again. But a dead iraqi child? Well it was born in poverty and iraq is used to misery.. that isnt much of a surprise. Not worth much attention.

But are we better in europe? Children are dying everyday in Africa and we praise a pope who spoke agains the use of condoms while AIDS take the last chance of african recovery. We have simillar double standards. The only thing that is different is the level of awareness. And at least we have the a feeling called "remorces" left.

[theavonlady 2]

But a dead iraqi child? Well it was born in poverty and iraq is used to misery.. that isnt much of a surprise. Not worth much attention.

Funny how no one on the left was paying attention to this and much worse during Saddam's decades of rule. Actually, it's not funny at all.

OT: Regarding Terry Schiavo, see The Death of Terry Schiavo: an Epilogue for an example of a contrary opinion.