The Iraq thread 4

[EiZei 0]

While this is the largest deployment of NG and reserve units since WWII, NG have been deployed in every major war since it was created. Furthermore, you could blame the TCA (clinton years) for cutting two army divisions.

Less than 4000 NG people were deployed in the vietnam (AFAIK) war and desert storm didn't last very long. The occupation of Iraq has been on for over 2 years now and no end in sight.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]'blame' is the wrong word, because operations involving the US military that the Clinton administration anticipated occurring in Iraq were focussed on containment. Not only was the US military well suited to this task, but hindsight is making it clear every day that containment was an infinitely preferable alternative to the current situation. You can't launch into a war of aggression based on an utterly unprecedented set of policies and doctrines and then pass the buck to the previous administration that didn't share your outlook.

Let me finish editing my post.... check my previous post...edited again....

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]think about this casualty is above 10,000 already. of course the number of wounded includes minor ones like scratch on skin to serious lethal woulds that eventually kill the wounded.

5,000-something were able to reported back to duty. I forgot the exact number but I remember it was 5k-somethng.

so roughly 6000 soldiers were taken out of action due to injuries and deaths. That number should tell something about the current situation.

when the infamous "Mission Accomplished" banner flew after initial military phase, the rate of soldiers getting killed was about 1 per day.

given we are now into 2nd year, it's about 2 per day.

count the number of those taken out for injuries, it's about 7-8 per day.

count the number of those who were even remotely taken out, it's about 16 per day.

this should be alarming.

Quote[/b] ]While this is the largest deployment of NG and reserve units since WWII, NG have been deployed in every major war since it was created. The cuts of the 90s and military size reduction in turn made the military stretched to a point. So, Iraq is a eye opener in a odd way.

......................................

You are rarely going to hear or read about the Iraqi police or military graduation that was not attacked; insurgents that been captured or killed planting a bomb (and etc.); the reconstruction (it still goes on...slowly); and etc. They do happen folks..

It should also be an eye opener that winning through military action is one thing, but peacekeeping/occupation is another. According to a news taht appeared a few months after end of major conflict, Gen. Shinseki suggested 250,000 troops for peacekeeping before the war, which never materialized.

If you assessed how much you have, but plan to go ahead despite lacking in resources, it's a very questionable decision making.

It should be an eye opener that reconstruction should have been done by now, or if not wasn't needed to begin with.

[Wilco 944]

From a soldier stationed in Mosul, Iraq:

Quote[/b] ]hello everyone,

Its been a really crazy week..we have found countless caches..the AIF ( anti-Iraqi forces) are stepping up attacks for the upcoming elections, we found a VBIED with 15, 152mm rounds rigged, ready to go with the keys in the ingnition, a week ago the rammed a fuel truck with explosives into one of our outposts..we lost one guy that day.

The one thing that bothers me the most was a 12 year old girl that came up to us during a patrol..crying hysterically and telling us she needed help..the AIF were going to kill her, our CO Being the genius that he is figured she was like most kids that swarm us here..and said to give her some candy and send her on her way.

An hour later we rolled back through that neighborhood and found her head on a stake..the thing that get s me is that, as usual the streets were busy with people walking around like nothing was going on!..why would the AIF kill a 12 year old girl?? It really broke my heart..but it PISSED me off like all hell..these people walk the streets everyday and dont give a flying f*** about a future...they dont care about whats going to happen to them tommorow , I hate to say I'm starting to not give a f*** about them either.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Thats the spirit.

From an old article on good news from Iraq:

Quote[/b] ]Are the media ignoring the good news in Iraq? From pundits to White House officials, that's what many critics are saying. According to George W. Bush (10/6/03), "We're making good progress in Iraq. Sometimes it's hard to tell it when you listen to the filter." While these complaints have sparked extensive discussion and debate in the media, an examination of coverage finds very little substance to this critique of media treatment of Iraq.

The pro-occupation critics claim that there's not enough coverage of the rebuilt schools, for example, or the fact that hospitals in Iraq are open. Congressmember Jim Marshall (D.-Ga.) was perhaps the most blunt of them all, alleging in an opinion piece for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (9/22/03) that the media's "falsely bleak picture weakens our national resolve, discourages Iraqi cooperation and emboldens our enemy." Marshall concluded by lamenting "the harm done by our media. I'm afraid it is killing our troops."

....

But other critics note that "good news" is hardly the only thing missing from Iraq coverage. Seth Porges writes in Editor & Publisher (10/23/03) that coverage of injured and wounded U.S. soldiers gets very little media attention. "For months, the press has barely mentioned non-fatal casualties or the severity of their wounds," writes Porges.

Is Media Bias Filtering Out Good News from Iraq?

The Salvador Option(MSNBC)- Civil war anyone?

Quote[/b] ]Jan. 8 - What to do about the deepening quagmire of Iraq? The Pentagons latest approach is being called "the Salvador option" and the fact that it is being discussed at all is a measure of just how worried Donald Rumsfeld really is. "What everyone agrees is that we cant just go on as we are," one senior military officer told NEWSWEEK. "We have to find a way to take the offensive against the insurgents. Right now, we are playing defense. And we are losing." Last November's operation in Fallujah, most analysts agree, succeeded less in breaking "the back" of the insurgency as Marine Gen. John Sattler optimistically declared at the time than in spreading it out.

Whilst special forces assassination and snatch squads might possibly be one of the more effective and well targeted means of forcefully fighting terrorists and/or insurgents, somehow Central American style paramilities seem unlikely to be harbingers of imminent peace in Iraq.

El Salvador as a model? Scene in the eighties of a brutal civil war with US backing, right wing ARENA deathsquads etc

Quote[/b] ]Following that model, one Pentagon proposal would send Special Forces teams to advise, support and possibly train Iraqi squads, most likely hand-picked Kurdish Peshmerga fighters and Shiite militiamen, to target Sunni insurgents and their sympathizers, even across the border into Syria, according to military insiders familiar with the discussions. It remains unclear, however, whether this would be a policy of assassination or so-called "snatch" operations, in which the targets are sent to secret facilities for interrogation. The current thinking is that while U.S. Special Forces would lead operations in, say, Syria, activities inside Iraq itself would be carried out by Iraqi paramilitaries, officials tell NEWSWEEK.

If ethnically exclusive paramilitary hit squads are the answer, i wonder as to the question. I can only hope this 'idea' doesnt take off in the same way as other myopic initiatives have in the past such as, oh, supplying weapons and funding only to the most extreme and zealous Mujahideen in Afghanistan.

Tex [uSMC]-

Quote[/b] ]Fixed.

Hehehe.

[quicksand 0]

Well after a long sabatical of following the events from Iraq it once again cought my attention and got me wondering if we are seeing preparation of a mass insurgent offensive this year.US deathtoll has been steadedly climbing every month,in an unprecedented event the Iraqi fighters penetrated a US base and killed soldiers en mass;close to 50 Iraqi National Guardsman killed per week has turned into a common occourence and most importantly the explosives they are using.

Last week a Bradley hehicle hit a roadside bomb and all it's occupants were killed.Today an Abrams was destroyed after being hit by a powerful IED killing 2 soldiers.Targeting  heavily armored vehicles is a sign of their growing sophistication and a message of their firepower.

High Value targets from the government have kept on being killed since the begining of the month from governers of difrent provinces to Allawis party leader and important members of the Iraqi forces.

From a logical sense of view wouldn't a showdown when the insurgents choose the time and location of the battle be feasable using most of it's man and firepower now when it has been conceded their outnumber the US forces when they enjoy the suport of an important segment of Iraq's population,when a weak puppet government is in power with a equally weak Iraqi force counterpart.I myself see it imminent,not during the ellection when violance is expected but after a period of relative calm.Sure their goal was for more then an year surviving at which they were surprisingly succesful but now they risk loosing the momentum if this is trully their thinking mechanism.

Ukraine Orders Troops Removed From Iraq

Quote[/b] ]KIEV, Ukraine - President Leonid Kuchma on Monday ordered the foreign and defense ministers to develop a plan for withdrawing Ukraine's troops from Iraq within six months, the Interfax news agency reported.

Ukraine, whose 1,650 troops are the fourth-largest contingent in the U.S.-led military operation in Iraq, previously expressed intentions to withdraw this year, but Kuchma's reported order speeds up that timetable.

The report came a day after eight Ukrainian soldiers died in an explosion at an ammunition dump in Iraq, which was reported as an accident.

Andriy Lysenko, the Defense Ministry's spokesman said the "military is ready to start the pullout at any moment, when we get the president's order."

Officials from the Foreign Ministry were not immediately available for comment.

Two U.S. Soldiers Killed by Iraqi Bomb

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb destroyed a U.S. battle tank patrolling southwestern Baghdad on Monday, killing two American soldiers and wounding four others, the military said.

The blast destroyed the Abrams tank, the military said, suggesting that the bomb was enormous. The Abrams is one of the heaviest armored vehicles in the U.S. arsenal.

The U.S. Defense Department said last week that insurgents were increasing the size and power of the bombs they plant as they escalate their attacks before the Jan. 30 election. On Thursday, a roadside bomb hit a Bradley Fighting Vehicle, one of the more heavily armored U.S. military vehicles, killing all seven U.S. soldiers inside and destroying the vehicle.

The soldiers killed Monday were from Task Force Baghdad. Their names were being withheld pending family notification.

The two deaths brought the number of American troops killed in Iraq since the war began in March 2003 to at least 1,355, according to an Associated Press count. At least 1,058 have died as a result of hostile action.

Baghdad's Deputy Police Chief Assassinated

Quote[/b] ]Gunmen shot and killed Baghdad's deputy police chief, Brig. Amer Ali Nayef, and his son, Lt. Khalid Amer, also a police officer. They were slain in Baghdad's south Dora district while traveling in a car on their way to work, Interior Ministry spokesman Capt. Ahmed Ismail said.

Gunmen sprayed machine-gun fire from two cars driving parallel with the police chief's vehicle close to his home before fleeing, police said. The two were alone in their car.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Well after a long sabatical of following the events from Iraq it once again cought my attention and got me wondering if we are seeing preparation of a mass insurgent offensive this year.

It would be way too suicidal for a "offensive" by them.

Quote[/b] ]Last week a Bradley hehicle hit a roadside bomb and all it's occupants were killed.Today an Abrams was destroyed after being hit by a powerful IED killing 2 soldiers.Targeting heavily armored vehicles is a sign of their growing sophistication and a message of their firepower.

It was a another Bradley not Abrams...a correction was done.

Quote[/b] ]in an unprecedented event the Iraqi fighters penetrated a US base and killed soldiers en mass

It was a saudi and not a iraqi but nevertheless.

nothing more...

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]It would be way too suicidal for a "offensive" by them.

Define too suicidal to the thousands fanatics just waiting for the order to enthusiasticly carry it out and detonate themselves without any second thought.

Truth it their fight has been called a lost cause for months after the first phase of the war ended and their fighters loose-enders that pose no strategic risk.An year after we have witnessed the most costly battle for US forces since the war begun,they are infiltrated in all the interim institutions and they fight on.

One way or the other they will eventually run out of either ammunition,suport,man power loosing their notoriety and eventually will to fight if a Iraqi ellected government emerges and a time table for US forces to withdraw from the country is set.It's crystal clear that a better time for a large scale offensive gambling a chance at power won't exist after this year as it is crystal clear they have nothing to loose if they do so.

Quote[/b] ]It was a another Bradley not Abrams...a correction was done.

Unsurprisingly months on I still fail to see you point.Are you implying that my statement that has been conceded by a US general acknowledging insurgents are increasing the power of their IED doesn't stand because it was a Bradley-still one of the most heavily armored vehicle in service in Iraq and we are seeing a shift from their favourite targets the Humvees?

Quote[/b] ]t was a saudi and not a iraqi but nevertheless.

Great argument.I would like to see you using it pointing out the fact that 15 of the 9/11 highjackers were also Saudis.

I myself consider that we should focus in both cases on the fact that US security was breached and Osama bin Laden orchestrated the attacks and that it was also an unprecendented breach of US security in Iraq and that it was an active Iraqi group that claimed responsability for the attack finding the nationalities of the perpetratours of little relevance.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Define too suicidal to the thousands fanatics just waiting for the order to enthusiasticly carry it out and detonate themselves without any second thought.

Truth it their fight has been called a lost cause for months after the first phase of the war ended and their fighters loose-enders that pose no strategic risk.An year after we have witnessed the most costly battle for US forces since the war begun,they are infiltrated in all the interim institutions and they fight on.

One way or the other they will eventually run out of either ammunition,suport,man power loosing their notoriety and eventually will to fight if a Iraqi ellected government emerges and a time table for US forces to withdraw from the country is set.It's crystal clear that a better time for a large scale offensive gambling a chance at power won't exist after this year as it is crystal clear they have nothing to loose if they do so.

Surprise might catch the military/iraqi forces off guard but not for long. Furthermore, US has the airpower and etc. Expect them to be nearly wiped out if a "offensive" happens. Also, insurgents are being killed but it is not good pr to have show off pictures of insurgents with their heads blown off by a .50 cal sniper rifle and etc (those pictures do exist but no in the mood of being banned.).

Quote[/b] ]Unsurprisingly months on I still fail to see you point.Are you implying that my statement that has been conceded by a US general acknowledging insurgents are increasing the power of their IED doesn't stand because it was a Bradley-still one of the most heavily armored vehicle in service in Iraq and we are seeing a shift from their favourite targets the Humvees?

Made a correction for you...

Quote[/b] ]

Great argument.I would like to see you using it pointing out the fact that 15 of the 9/11 highjackers were also Saudis.

Made a correction for you, again..

Quote[/b] ]

active Iraqi group that claimed responsability for the attack finding the nationalities of the perpetratours of little relevance.

Actually, it does makes relevance because somebody talked about the arab foreginers hardly not being in Iraq fighting the coalition months ago. Was that you...

[denoir 0]

US deathtoll has been steadedly climbing every month

The US monthly death toll has been climbing, but not as dramatically as one would think.

http://icasualties.org/

Quote[/b] ]

US Casualties per month

Mar-03 65

Apr-03 74

May-03 37

Jun-03 30

Jul-03 47

Aug-03 35

Sep-03 31

Oct-03 44

Nov-03 82

Dec-03 40

Jan-04 47

Feb-04 20

Mar-04 52

Apr-04 135

May-04 80

Jun-04 42

Jul-04 54

Aug-04 66

Sep-04 80

Oct-04 63

Nov-04 137

Dec-04 72

Averaged:

March 2003-August 2003: 48 / month

September 2003-February 2004: 44 / month

March 2004-August 2004: 71/month

September 2004-January 2005: 91/month

So, this past six months the rate has been the double the one it was during the first six months of the occupation.

There is however a gravely misleading factor in all of this, and that is that until the middle of the last year, there were almost no Iraqi forces. Today they are taking over a lot of the grunt work, and they are dying in large numbers.

I honestly don't know what can be done at this point. The US led forces lost more or less all control of Iraq some six months ago and the Iraqi government has not been able to pick up the pieces.

The so far only good news is that a potential Sunni-Shia showdown has been kept away. The bad news is that most likely it has just been postponed. The Shia leadership are seeing the elections as their chance of getting political influence (as they represent the majority). Unfortunately most of their political leaders (i.e Sistani et al) are religious fundamentalists that see Iran as a good example of how a country is run. The elections are just a tool to get to power - they have no intention of continuing that tradition. They have been very smart so far to play a passive role and thus appearing moderate - but make no mistake these are fundamentalists Å• la Khomeini.

So we have two potential scenarios:

1) Elections are a success and the larger Shia parties get control. Iraq moves to the direction of a fundamentalist Shia theocracy. The Sunni are unlikely to accept this and a civil war is a very strong reality. The American presence complicates things of course - a Shia dominated government will demand that US forces be removed ASAP. So that leaves the US with the choice of accepting a very hostile government in Iraq or fighting the democratically elected government.

2) Elections are a joke and the situation does not change. The Shia will come to accept the fact that the only way to get political influence is by force. Expect to see more of al-Sadr as well as military ambitions from mainstream Sistani followers. Say hello to civil war.

The irony is that the people in Iraq most willing and able to try a serious democratic process are the secular nationalst segments. Yepp, the Baathists. They on the other hand are too busy fighting with US forces to be a realistic alternative.

Then we have the resistance of course, which is another time-bomb. Right now they are content by killing US soldiers and Iraqi collaborators. Their hate for their current enemy is bigger than their differences - but those differences are very significant. The insurgents range from former Baathists, Iraqi nationalists to pan-Arab nationalists and dozens of muslism fundamentalist sects. They have no common vision and once their common enemy is gone, one way or another, you'll have some very violent, very well armed people that are not too fond of each other.

[Wilco 944]

Unsurprisingly months on I still fail to see you point.Are you implying that my statement that has been conceded by a US general acknowledging insurgents are increasing the power of their IED doesn't stand because it was a Bradley-still one of the most heavily armored vehicle in service in Iraq and we are seeing a shift from their favourite targets the Humvees?

Ofcourse they are strengthening their attacks, and Bradley's are armored ofcourse, but the bottom of the hull is weak, severily weak, our military has never seen IED attacks so frequent so they probably didn't feel the need to upgrade certain parts that are infact IED targets. So what if we are seeing a shift in attacks from Humvees to the Bradley IFV?

He was just correcting you, calm down a bit, don't take everything we say as another chance to start an argument.

[Daddl 10]

Uhm, isn't the bottom exactly what mines (i.e. a common obstacle in any war) target? An IED is just a more improvised version of that, so what's so surprising about them???

[Wilco 944]

Mines hit treads and can damage the bottom hull, but mines are not 150-500lb bombs either.

[svendejong 0]

This has to be a joke!!

Quote[/b] ]

Charles Graner's lawyer, Guy Womack, told the 10-member US military jury at the Texas court martial on Monday that leashing detainees was also an acceptable prisoner control.

In opening arguments at the reservist sergeant's trial in Fort Hood, Womack asked: "Don't cheerleaders all over America form pyramids six to eight times a year. Is that torture?"

   

Graner and Private Lynndie England, with whom he fathered a child and who is also facing a court martial, became the faces of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal after they appeared in photographs that showed degraded, naked prisoners.

and if it was all about fun, why didnt the accused join??

[theavonlady 2]

@ Jan. 11 2005,10:37)]This has to be a joke!!

It has to be a lawyer!!

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]Right now they are content by killing US soldiers and Iraqi collaborators.

By collaborators you mean any one who's trying to make a honest living, go to school, or hell just walk down the street right?

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Right now they are content by killing US soldiers and Iraqi collaborators.

 

     By collaborators you mean any one who's trying to make a honest living, go to school, or hell just walk down the street right?

No,

Quote[/b] ]

Main Entry: col·lab·o·rate

Pronunciation: k&-'la-b&-"rAt

Function: intransitive verb

Inflected Form(s): -rat·ed; -rat·ing

Etymology: Late Latin collaboratus, past participle of collaborare to labor together, from Latin com- + laborare to labor

1 : to work jointly with others or together especially in an intellectual endeavor

2 : to cooperate with or willingly assist an enemy of one's country and especially an occupying force

3 : to cooperate with an agency or instrumentality with which one is not immediately connected

The US is an occupying force in Iraq, so by definition the interrim government, its police and military assets are collaborators. Why do you think that the insurgents are attacking them - because they don't like their choice of music?

As for the "any one who's trying to make a honest living, go to school, or hell just walk down the street right?", no. That seems to be the forte of the coalition forces:

Forces linked to more deaths than insurgents [HoustonChronicle]

Quote[/b] ]

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - Operations by U.S. and multinational forces and Iraqi police are killing twice as many Iraqis — most of them civilians — as attacks by insurgents, according to statistics compiled by the Iraqi Health Ministry...

[Wilco 944]

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - Operations by U.S. and multinational forces and Iraqi police are killing twice as many Iraqis — most of them civilians — as attacks by insurgents, according to statistics compiled by the Iraqi Health Ministry...

How would they know who killed how? Examining the gunshot wound and round left inside the body?

[EiZei 0]

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - Operations by U.S. and multinational forces and Iraqi police are killing twice as many Iraqis — most of them civilians — as attacks by insurgents, according to statistics compiled by the Iraqi Health Ministry...

How would they know who killed how? Examining the gunshot wound and round left inside the body?

I think it does not take much of a sherlock to figure out who is responsible when houses get demolished in airstrikes or shot to hell by tanks/heavy artillery.

[Wilco 944]

Not talking about that amigo, I mean fatal gunshot wounds, since most fighting going on is house to house, how would they know? Especially if they had exit wounds and no trace of caliber.

[denoir 0]

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - Operations by U.S. and multinational forces and Iraqi police are killing twice as many Iraqis — most of them civilians — as attacks by insurgents, according to statistics compiled by the Iraqi Health Ministry...

How would they know who killed how?  Examining the gunshot wound and round left inside the body?

I don't know what their methodology is, but most cases shouldn't be too difficult to classify by context. It's not exactly a trench war with the civilians caught in the middle.

If a suicide bomber attacks a police station and blows and you find a bunch of dead civilians on the scene as well, it's not difficult to infer what and who killed them. The same goes when an airstrike or artillery strike aimed at an insurgent outpost takes out a few surrounding residential buildings.

Furthermore I'm sure that the Iraqis have like everybody else some form of post-mortem analyisis which can on technical grounds determine who caused the death and how.

The important thing in context is that this is from the Iraqi Health ministry, which is a part of the US-friendly government. They are unlikely to overstate the number of coalition/Iraqi government inflicted civilian deaths.

Quote[/b] ]Not talking about that amigo, I mean fatal gunshot wounds, since most fighting going on is house to house, how would they know? Especially if they had exit wounds and no trace of caliber.

No, most fighting going on is via various forms of explosives, airborne or otherwise. Most civilians get blown up, not shot.

[Wilco 944]

No, most fighting going on is via various forms of explosives, airborne or otherwise. Most civilians get blown up, not shot.

Okay, but what about house to house and civilians caught in the middle? Autopsy's? What if there are no expended rounds inside the body? How can you tell this?

[denoir 0]

No, most fighting going on is via various forms of explosives, airborne or otherwise. Most civilians get blown up, not shot.

Okay, but what about house to house and civilians caught in the middle?  Autopsy's?  What if there are no expended rounds inside the body?  How can you tell this?

The house-to-house fighting has been limited to relatively few areas and instances (Fallujah being obviously most prominent). Otherwise the gunshot deaths are mostly from civilians getting caught in insurgent ambushes or coalition raids.

As for those that really get caught inbetween, and where it's impossible to tell without a detailed autopsy, I really don't know. Perhaps they perform autopsies, or they list them in the "unknown" category.

Or if you wish to be cynical (or realistic, sombody might say), it's possible that the government controled health ministry simply blames the insurgents for such deaths. They're not exactly unbiased in all this.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/11/marine.shooting/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- A 19-year-old Marine from Ceres, California, shot and killed a police officer and wounded another before dying in a weekend gunbattle.

Investigators said he may have been driven by a desire to avoid returning to Iraq.

Andres Raya was scheduled to report back to Camp Pendleton, near San Diego, on Sunday after a weekend leave.

Instead, police said, he went out with a semiautomatic rifle and drew officers into an ambush outside a liquor store in Ceres, a town of about 35,000 next door to his hometown of Modesto.

Raya's mother told the Modesto Bee that her son "came back different" from his last assignment, which included service in western Iraq's insurgent hotbed of Falluja.

"In speaking with family, they conveyed to us that their son did not desire to return to Iraq," said Lt. Bill Heyne, a spokesman for the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department.

The ambush was recorded by a security camera outside the liquor store. Raya was shot and killed after a three-hour search, investigators said.

Ceres police spokesman Jason Woodman said Raya had walked into the store and "was pacing around, acting strange."

He walked back outside, fired a shot with his rifle and went back inside, telling employees he had been shot and to call police.

"As he saw the officers, he immediately engaged in gunfire with them," Woodman said. He said Raya chased the officers as they pulled back, still firing his rifle.

"It's very evident that he was intent on engaging these officers in gunfire, and that he was not concerned with the bullets that were going to be flying in his direction," Woodman said.

Ceres police Sgt. Howard Stevenson was killed almost instantly when he arrived at the scene, said Art de Werk, the city's director of public safety.

Another officer, Sam Ryno, was in serious condition at a Modesto hospital Monday evening.

A statement from Camp Pendleton said Raya was on weekend liberty when he was killed. The Marine Corps is assisting police with the investigation, the statement said.

Raya was a driver in the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment -- an element of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, much of which is serving in Iraq.

According to the Marines, he had been awarded the National Defense Service Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal and the Navy and Marine Corps Sea Service Deployment Ribbon.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Search for Banned Arms In Iraq Ended Last Month

Critical September Report to Be Final Word

By Dafna Linzer

Washington Post Staff Writer

Wednesday, January 12, 2005; Page A01

The hunt for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in Iraq has come to an end nearly two years after President Bush ordered U.S. troops to disarm Saddam Hussein. The top CIA weapons hunter is home, and analysts are back at Langley.

In interviews, officials who served with the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) said the violence in Iraq, coupled with a lack of new information, led them to fold up the effort shortly before Christmas.

Four months after Charles A. Duelfer, who led the weapons hunt in 2004, submitted an interim report to Congress that contradicted nearly every prewar assertion about Iraq made by top Bush administration officials, a senior intelligence official said the findings will stand as the ISG's final conclusions and will be published this spring.

President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials asserted before the U.S. invasion in March 2003 that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear weapons program, had chemical and biological weapons, and maintained links to al Qaeda affiliates to whom it might give such weapons to use against the United States.

Bush has expressed disappointment that no weapons or weapons programs were found, but the White House has been reluctant to call off the hunt, holding out the possibility that weapons were moved out of Iraq before the war or are well hidden somewhere inside the country. But the intelligence official said that possibility is very small.

Duelfer is back in Washington, finishing some addenda to his September report before it is reprinted.

"There's no particular news in them, just some odds and ends," the intelligence official said. The Government Printing Office will publish it in book form, the official said.

The CIA declined to authorize any official involved in the weapons search to speak on the record for this story. The intelligence official offered an authoritative account of the status of the hunt on the condition of anonymity. The agency did confirm that Duelfer is wrapping up his work and will not be replaced in Baghdad.

The ISG, established to search for weapons but now enmeshed in counterinsurgency work, remains under Pentagon command and is being led by Marine Corps Brig. Gen. Joseph McMenamin.

Intelligence officials said there is little left for the ISG to investigate because Duelfer's last report answered as many outstanding questions as possible. The ISG has interviewed every person it could find connected to programs that ended more than 10 years ago, and every suspected site within Iraq has been fully searched, or stripped bare by insurgents and thieves, according to several people involved in the weapons hunt.

Satellite photos show that entire facilities have been dismantled, possibly by scrap dealers who sold off parts and equipment to buyers around the world.

"The September 30 report is really pretty much the picture," the intelligence official said.

"We've talked to so many people that someone would have said something. We received nothing that contradicts the picture we've put forward. It's possible there is a supply someplace, but what is much more likely is that [as time goes by] we will find a greater substantiation of the picture that we've already put forward."

Congress allotted hundreds of millions of dollars for the weapons hunt, and there has been no public accounting of the money. A spokesman for the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency said the entire budget and the expenditures would remain classified.

Several hundred military translators and document experts will continue to sift through millions of pages of documents on paper and computer media sitting in a storeroom on a U.S. military base in Qatar.

But their work is focused on material that could support possible war crimes charges or shed light on the fate of Capt. Michael Scott Speicher, a Navy pilot who was shot down in an F/A-18 fighter over central Iraq on Jan. 17, 1991, the opening night of the Persian Gulf War. Although he was initially reported as killed in action, Speicher's status was changed to missing after evidence emerged that he had ejected alive from his aircraft.

The work on documents is not connected to weapons of mass destruction, officials said, and a small group of Iraqi scientists still in U.S. military custody are not being held in connection with weapons investigations, either.

Three people involved with the ISG said the weapons teams made several pleas to the Pentagon to release the scientists, who have been interviewed extensively. All three officials specifically mentioned Gen. Amir Saadi, who was a liaison between Hussein's government and U.N. inspectors; Rihab Taha, a biologist nicknamed "Dr. Germ" years ago by U.N. inspectors; her husband, Amir Rashid, the former oil minister; and Huda Amash, a biologist whose extensive dealings with U.N. inspectors earned her the nickname "Mrs. Anthrax."

None of the scientists has been involved in weapons programs since the 1991 Gulf War, the ISG determined more than a year ago, and all have cooperated with investigators despite nearly two years of jail time without charges. U.S. officials previously said they were being held because their denials of ongoing weapons programs were presumed to be lies; now, they say the scientists are being held in connection with the possible war crimes trials of Iraqis.

It has been more than a year since any Iraqi scientist was arrested in connection with weapons of mass destruction. Many of those questioned and cleared have since left Iraq, one senior official said, acknowledging for the first time that the "brain drain" that has long been feared "is well underway."

"A lot of it is because of the kidnapping industry" in Iraq, the official said. The State Department has been trying to implement programs designed to keep Iraqi scientists from seeking weapons-related work in neighboring countries, such as Syria and Iran.

Since March 2003, nearly a dozen people working for or with the weapons hunt have lost their lives to the insurgency. The most recent deaths came in November, when Duelfer's convoy was attacked during a routine mission around Baghdad and two of his bodyguards were killed.

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