The Iraq thread 4

[Sgt. Jones 0]

Putin questions how a democratic vote can take place under occupation by foreign powers:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR....FCD.htm

I'd imagine that it would take place in a similar manner to those democratic votes undertaken during occupation by UN peacekeepers.......

[bn880 5]

Right,

Merry X-mas Iraq

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/3983243/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]For every American soldier killed in Iraq, nine others have been wounded and survived - the highest rate of any war in U.S. history.

It isn't that their injuries were less serious, a new report says. In fact, some young soldiers and Marines have had faces, arms and legs blown off and are now returning home badly maimed. But they have survived thanks, in part, to armor-like vests and fast treatment from doctors on the move with surgical kits in backpacks.

"This is unprecedented. People who lose not just one but two or three extremities are people who just have not survived in the past," said Dr. Atul Gawande, a surgeon at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston who researched military medicine and wrote about it in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine.

The journal also published a five-page spread of 21 military photographs that graphically depict the horrific injuries and conditions under which these modern-day MASH surgeons operate.

"We thought a lot about it," said the journal's editor, Dr. Jeffrey Drazen, and ultimately decided the pictures told an important story.

"This war is producing unique injuries - less lethal but more traumatic," he said.

In one traumatic case, Gawande tells of an airman who lost both legs, his right hand and part of his face. "How he and others like him will be able to live and function remains an open question," Gawande writes.

Kevlar helmets and vests are one reason for the high survival rate.

"The critical core, your chest and your abdomen, are protected," said Dr. George Peoples, a Walter Reed Army Medical Center surgeon who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. "Parodixically, what we've seen is devastating extremity injuries because people are surviving wounds they otherwise wouldn't have."

By mid-November, 10,369 American troops had been wounded in battle in Afghanistan or Iraq, and 1,004 had died - a survival rate of roughly 90 percent. In the Vietnam War, one in four wounded died, virtually all of them before they could reach MASH units some distance from the fighting.

Today in Iraq, real-life Hawkeyes and B.J. Hunnicuts have stripped trauma surgery to its most basic level, carrying "mini-hospitals" in six Humvees and field operating kits in five backpacks so they can move with troops and do surgery on the spot.

"Within an hour, we drop the tents and set up the OR tables, and we can pretty much start operating immediately," said Peoples, whose photographs are in the medical journal.

He's now at Walter Reed in Washington which has treated 150 amputees from the Iraq war. American military hospitals collectively have had 200 amputees from Iraq and Afghanistan, three of them triple amputees.

The record survival rates in Iraq have been achieved with an astonishingly small number of general surgeons. The entire Army has only about 120 on active duty and a similar number in the reserves. Of these, only 30 to 50 are in Iraq, plus 10 to 15 orthopedic surgeons, to care for 130,000 to 150,000 troops, Gawande reports.

That's fewer than the 80 general and orthopedic surgeons on staff at two Boston hospitals - Brigham and Massachusetts General.

"It's a very tight supply," Gawande said of the surgeons in Iraq. "They're now also burdened with civilian Iraqis seeking their help because the U.S. has taken over many Iraqi hospitals."

Virginia Stephanakis, a spokeswoman for the Army Surgeon General's Office, said Gawande had done excellent research and that his figures on casualties jibe with those on Department of Defense Web sites, though she wouldn't confirm the number of surgeons in Iraq.

Gawande and others also credit nurses, anesthetists, helicopter pilots, other transport staff and an entire rethinking of the combat medicine system for soldiers' survival.

The strategy is damage control, not definitive repair. Field doctors limit surgery to two hours or less, often leaving temporary closures and even plastic bags over wounds, and send soldiers to one of several combat support hospitals in Iraq with services like labs and X-rays.

"We basically work to save life over limb," said Navy Capt. Kenneth Kelleher, chief of the surgical company at the chief U.S. Marine base near Fallujah. "No frills, nothing complicated. If the injury is not going to be salvageable, we do a rapid amputation, and there have been a fair number of those."

If soldiers are shipped to a combat support hospital, the maximum stay is three days. If more advanced care is needed, they're sent to hospitals in Landstuhl, Germany, or Kuwait or Spain. If care will be needed for a month or more, they're whisked directly to Walter Reed or Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio.

"The average time from battlefield to arrival in the United States is now less than four days. In Vietnam, it was 45 days," Gawande writes.

John Greenwood, a historian with the Army Surgeon General's office, said the new strategy has made a big difference in survival.

"Historically, the key change has been the ability to move the wounded man to definitive surgical care," he said.

Field surgeons moving with troops is the first step. Peoples traveled 1,100 miles throughout southern Iraq and into Baghdad, doing only what was absolutely necessary to save a life and shipping patients out.

He said he tried to ignore personal danger, like the time his medical team was sent to an evacuated air base in southern Iraq.

"At least, we thought it was evacuated," he said. In fact, Iraqi soldiers were still being routed out. The medical team was told to pick any of the bombed-out buildings to use as a makeshift hospital. After finishing one surgery, he walked outside and noticed big red X's on all the other buildings warning against entry.

By sheer luck, he said, "we had chosen the only one that hadn't been booby-trapped."

As for the soldiers he took pictures of, he had this to say: "Every person depicted in those photos survived."

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/09/hassoun.desert/index.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A U.S. Marine who disappeared in Iraq and then showed up in a purported hostage video before later appearing as a free man in Lebanon, is being charged with desertion, Pentagon officials said Thursday.

Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun will also be charged by the Marine Corps with larceny and wrongful disposition of military property in connection with his service-issued 9 mm handgun that disappeared with him and never turned up, officials said.

When Hassoun last spoke with military investigators in September and was read his rights, he refused to divulge details of the events surrounding his disappearance.

The 24-year-old from West Jordan, Utah, will not be held in custody, because he is not considered a flight risk, officials said.

The next step for Hassoun is an Article 32 hearing, the military's equivalent to a grand jury hearing. Unlike a grand jury hearing, he will be allowed to have an attorney present.

The hearing will be at his home base of Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. No date has been set for the hearing.

If found guilty of desertion, he could receive a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay and allowances, and five years' confinement for each specification.

Maximum punishment for each specification of larceny and for the wrongful disposition charge is a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay and allowances and 10 years' confinement.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/09/rumsfeld.reporter/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- The question a U.S. soldier asked Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld Wednesday about the lack of armor on some combat vehicles in Iraq was planted by a newspaper reporter embedded with the soldier's unit, the reporter told colleagues in an e-mail.

Edward Lee Pitts, Chattanooga Times Free Press military affairs reporter, said he wanted to ask the question himself but was denied a chance to speak to Rumsfeld at what the Pentagon called a town hall meeting for GIs in Kuwait.

Pitts wrote the confessional e-mail Wednesday, and it was published Thursday on the Web site of the Poynter Institute, a center for journalistic studies St. Petersburg, Florida.

"I just had one of my best days as a journalist today," he wrote from Kuwait, where he is embedded with the 278th Regimental Combat Team, a Tennessee National Guard outfit preparing for deployment to Iraq.

"As luck would have it, our journey North was delayed just long enough see I could attend a visit today here by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld."

Soldiers at Camp Buehring, a staging area in the Kuwait desert, peppered Rumsfeld with queries, including one about armored vehicles from Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th. (Full story)

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" Wilson asked.

The question prompted cheers from some of the approximately 2,300 troops assembled in a hangar to hear Rumsfeld.

Pitts said he was told only soldiers could ask questions, so he and two GIs "worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have."

To make sure the soldiers were picked, Pitts said he "found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd."

Wilson was the second soldier recognized.

"When he asked Rumsfeld why after two years here soldiers are still having to dig through trash bins to find rusted scrap metal and cracked ballistic windows for their Humvees," Pitts wrote, "the place erupted in cheers so loud that Rumsfeld had to ask the guy to repeat his question."

Rumsfeld said armored military vehicles have been brought to the region "from all over the world, from where they're not needed to a place they're needed."

"It's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money," Rumsfeld said. "It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it.

"As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want."

Rumsfeld's response was aired repeatedly on news channels, including CNN. The Pentagon held news conferences to discuss the issue.

Even President Bush weighed in, telling reporters at the White House Thursday that the complaints "are being addressed."

In his e-mail, Pitts said he had been "trying to get this story out" since he learned several weeks ago that he would be assigned to an unarmored truck, and the Times Free Press published two stories on the issue.

"But it felt good to hand it off to the national press," Pitts wrote. "I believe lives are at stake with so many soldiers going across the border riding with scrap metal as protection. It may be too late for the unit I am with, but hopefully not for those who come after."

Pitts wrote that Wilson told him he "felt good b/c he took his complaints to the top. When he got back to his unit most of the guys patted him on the back but a few of the officers were upset b/c they thought it would make them look bad."

Military officials had given the Tennessee Guard unit "reassurance all along that this would be taken care of," said Tom Griscom, the paper's publisher and executive editor.

"We have pictures of soldiers in the 278th literally going through [a] scrap heap" scavenging steel plate for their vehicles, Griscom said.

"They [the soldiers] spoke for themselves," Griscom said.

Griscom said he supported the way Pitts handled the situation.

"Lee called in here yesterday on the [satellite] phone, told us how the questions had unfolded," he said.

"I am supportive of his trying to find a way to get a question asked," Griscom said.

Though there was some discussion at the paper about Pitts' handling of the matter, Griscom said, "I would not start by saying we made a mistake. I personally do not think we made a mistake."

Professor Stuart Loory, who holds the Lee Hills Chair in Free Press Studies at the University of Missouri School of Journalism in Columbia, said he doesn't consider the manner in which the question was asked to be a problem for the reporter.

"Reporters don't have the same access any longer that they did to ask their own questions," he said. "And planting a legitimate question with somebody who may have the access, I think, is an acceptable practice.

"The question is whether or not the soldier who asked the question really believed in it, and my guess is that he did, or he wouldn't have asked it," said Loory, who also is editor in chief of Global Journalist magazine.

Pentagon spokesman Larry Di Rita disagreed.

"Town hall meetings are intended for soldiers to have dialogue with the secretary of defense," Di Rita said in a news release.

"... The secretary provides ample opportunity for interaction with the press. It is better that others not infringe on the troops' opportunity to interact with superiors in the chain of command."

[red oct 2]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/09/hassoun.desert/index.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A U.S. Marine who disappeared in Iraq and then showed up in a purported hostage video before later appearing as a free man in Lebanon, is being charged with desertion, Pentagon officials said Thursday.

Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun will also be charged by the Marine Corps with larceny and wrongful disposition of military property in connection with his service-issued 9 mm handgun that disappeared with him and never turned up, officials said.

When Hassoun last spoke with military investigators in September and was read his rights, he refused to divulge details of the events surrounding his disappearance.

The 24-year-old from West Jordan, Utah, will not be held in custody, because he is not considered a flight risk, officials said.

The next step for Hassoun is an Article 32 hearing, the military's equivalent to a grand jury hearing. Unlike a grand jury hearing, he will be allowed to have an attorney present.

The hearing will be at his home base of Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. No date has been set for the hearing.

If found guilty of desertion, he could receive a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay and allowances, and five years' confinement for each specification.

Maximum punishment for each specification of larceny and for the wrongful disposition charge is a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay and allowances and 10 years' confinement.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/09/rumsfeld.reporter/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- The question a U.S. soldier asked Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld Wednesday about the lack of armor on some combat vehicles in Iraq was planted by a newspaper reporter embedded with the soldier's unit, the reporter told colleagues in an e-mail.

Edward Lee Pitts, Chattanooga Times Free Press military affairs reporter, said he wanted to ask the question himself but was denied a chance to speak to Rumsfeld at what the Pentagon called a town hall meeting for GIs in Kuwait.

Pitts wrote the confessional e-mail Wednesday, and it was published Thursday on the Web site of the Poynter Institute, a center for journalistic studies St. Petersburg, Florida.

"I just had one of my best days as a journalist today," he wrote from Kuwait, where he is embedded with the 278th Regimental Combat Team, a Tennessee National Guard outfit preparing for deployment to Iraq.

"As luck would have it, our journey North was delayed just long enough see I could attend a visit today here by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld."

Soldiers at Camp Buehring, a staging area in the Kuwait desert, peppered Rumsfeld with queries, including one about armored vehicles from Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th. (Full story)

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" Wilson asked.

The question prompted cheers from some of the approximately 2,300 troops assembled in a hangar to hear Rumsfeld.

Pitts said he was told only soldiers could ask questions, so he and two GIs "worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have."

To make sure the soldiers were picked, Pitts said he "found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd."

Wilson was the second soldier recognized.

"When he asked Rumsfeld why after two years here soldiers are still having to dig through trash bins to find rusted scrap metal and cracked ballistic windows for their Humvees," Pitts wrote, "the place erupted in cheers so loud that Rumsfeld had to ask the guy to repeat his question."

Rumsfeld said armored military vehicles have been brought to the region "from all over the world, from where they're not needed to a place they're needed."

"It's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money," Rumsfeld said. "It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it.

"As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want."

Rumsfeld's response was aired repeatedly on news channels, including CNN. The Pentagon held news conferences to discuss the issue.

Even President Bush weighed in, telling reporters at the White House Thursday that the complaints "are being addressed."

In his e-mail, Pitts said he had been "trying to get this story out" since he learned several weeks ago that he would be assigned to an unarmored truck, and the Times Free Press published two stories on the issue.

"But it felt good to hand it off to the national press," Pitts wrote. "I believe lives are at stake with so many soldiers going across the border riding with scrap metal as protection. It may be too late for the unit I am with, but hopefully not for those who come after."

Pitts wrote that Wilson told him he "felt good b/c he took his complaints to the top. When he got back to his unit most of the guys patted him on the back but a few of the officers were upset b/c they thought it would make them look bad."

Military officials had given the Tennessee Guard unit "reassurance all along that this would be taken care of," said Tom Griscom, the paper's publisher and executive editor.

"We have pictures of soldiers in the 278th literally going through [a] scrap heap" scavenging steel plate for their vehicles, Griscom said.

"They [the soldiers] spoke for themselves," Griscom said.

Griscom said he supported the way Pitts handled the situation.

"Lee called in here yesterday on the [satellite] phone, told us how the questions had unfolded," he said.

"I am supportive of his trying to find a way to get a question asked," Griscom said.

Though there was some discussion at the paper about Pitts' handling of the matter, Griscom said, "I would not start by saying we made a mistake. I personally do not think we made a mistake."

Professor Stuart Loory, who holds the Lee Hills Chair in Free Press Studies at the University of Missouri School of Journalism in Columbia, said he doesn't consider the manner in which the question was asked to be a problem for the reporter.

"Reporters don't have the same access any longer that they did to ask their own questions," he said. "And planting a legitimate question with somebody who may have the access, I think, is an acceptable practice.

"The question is whether or not the soldier who asked the question really believed in it, and my guess is that he did, or he wouldn't have asked it," said Loory, who also is editor in chief of Global Journalist magazine.

Pentagon spokesman Larry Di Rita disagreed.

"Town hall meetings are intended for soldiers to have dialogue with the secretary of defense," Di Rita said in a news release.

"... The secretary provides ample opportunity for interaction with the press. It is better that others not infringe on the troops' opportunity to interact with superiors in the chain of command."

sorry to say it but Wassef Ali Hassoun case smells a awful like desertion when you look at what happened to Margret Hassan. she lived in Iraq for 30 years, protesting the U.N. sanctions, and spent her life in Iraq helping the population. Why would they kill her? but spare Hassoun? he was after all in the U.S. Marines.

and Rumsfeld's response to the soldier was really depressing. i wouldn't doubt for a minuet that guy hoped he was going to say something positive, but was really let down when he said "It's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money,It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it. As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want."

funny thing is the companies in charge of armoring the military vehicles said they were able to double their production, all they needed was for the Pentagon to give the word. not even the Soviet Union made their young conscripts go through this kinda crap. its even more sad to see nobody protesting more about this. the most people do today is stick some stupid little sticker resembling a yellow ribbon on their cars

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]Abuse 'continued after Abu Ghraib'

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington

Thursday December 9, 2004

The Guardian

US military officials witnessed the mistreatment of Iraqi detainees at a second Baghdad prison at the height of the Abu Ghraib scandal and were threatened and harassed when they attempted to report the abuse, official memos released by the Pentagon have shown.

The documents, which were obtained by human rights organisations, contradict the Pentagon's claims that the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib was isolated to the jail and involved a handful of lowly reservists.

The defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, told Congress last spring that he knew of no other reports of mistreatment outside the prison.

However, documents released by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) have revealed that senior Pentagon officials who claimed that Abu Ghraib was an aberration were repeatedly informed of abuse elsewhere through official channels.

In a memo to Stephen Cambone, undersecretary of defence for intelligence, the director of the Defence Intelligence Agency, Admiral LE Jacoby, details abuse carried out by members of a special forces unit known as Task Force 6-26.

The Pentagon responded last night by saying four troops serving on the taskforce had been disciplined and reassigned to other duties.

In his letter, dated June 25, Adm Jacoby describes how two of his interrogators assigned to a detention centre in Baghdad witnessed abuse by special forces troops.

According to the memo, prisoners arrived at the facility with bruises and burn marks on their backs, and some complained of kidney pain. One of the two interrogators also witnessed officers "punch a prisoner in the face to the point the individual needed medical attention", the memo says.

The two interrogators were ordered not to leave the compound without express permission, and their vehicle keys were confiscated.

They were ordered not to report the abuse to anyone in the US, and were informed that their email was monitored.

It was unclear when the abuse took place, but the interrogators reported the incident on June 24, a day before Adm Jacoby sent his memo.

"These documents tell a damning story of sanctioned government abuse, a story that the government has tried to hide and may well come back to haunt our own troops captured in Iraq," a statement from the ACLU said.

The documents also include material from a dozen FBI agents who worked at Abu Ghraib in late 2003, when the worst cases of abuse are thought to have occurred.

"It is my opinion, as an FBI agent, that were this prison on US soil, a judge would release almost every detainee for lack of evidence," one FBI official wrote. The agent's name was blacked out.

Several memos mention Gen Geoffrey Miller, who was sent to Abu Ghraib from Guantánamo in August 2003, to step up interrogation to get more information from prisoners.

Gen Miller left Iraq this week for Washington to take charge of army housing.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Rumsfeld's response to the soldier was really depressing. i wouldn't doubt for a minuet that guy hoped he was going to say something positive, but was really let down when he said "It's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money,It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it. As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want."

Only Patton could be that blunt with the troops..

Quote[/b] ]sorry to say it but Wassef Ali Hassoun case smells a awful like desertion when you look at what happened to Margret Hassan. she lived in Iraq for 30 years, protesting the U.N. sanctions, and spent her life in Iraq helping the population. Why would they kill her? but spare Hassoun? he was after all in the U.S. Marines.

Kind of odd that he we not tell what happened...

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]sorry to say it but Wassef Ali Hassoun case smells a awful like desertion when you look at what happened to Margret Hassan. she lived in Iraq for 30 years, protesting the U.N. sanctions, and spent her life in Iraq helping the population. Why would they kill her? but spare Hassoun? he was after all in the U.S. Marines.

Because the resistance is not homogenous and does not have a clear structure of leadership choosing to operate in cells each faction with their own beliefs,goals and rules of conduct.Al-Zarqawi's group mostly would do anything to acheive mayhem regardless of Iraqi civillian casualties and would behead virtually anyone with loose ties with the US occupation. Others,such as Saddam loyalists or Al-Mahdi army have clear targets(US troops and Iraqi security forces) and fight with mostly standard guerilla warfare and one of the most obvious differance they are not so desperate for media attention such as the kidnappers as you don't see web postings and video appearances every time Marines get killed in the Al-Anbar province.

Italian humanitarian workers were realsed because of their job,dozens of truck drivers because they were muslims others killed because the group that captured them won't spare anyone so it's difficult to say right not why was the Marine released and if indeed he deserted.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]and Rumsfeld's response to the soldier was really depressing. i wouldn't doubt for a minuet that guy hoped he was going to say something positive, but was really let down when he said "It's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money,It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it. As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want."

Especially when ol' Rummie stated he saw a number of the up-armored Hummer's in Washington.

They sure are protecting the troops there...

[kerosene 0]

No one ever took responsibility for Margaret Hassans death, personally I think it was because it would have been considered unnacceptable even by many anti-western Iraqis, I trhink the reason it was done is because somebody wanted to make a point that it didnt matter who she was married to, or how long she'd helped the Iraqis, she was a foreigner and thats enough for them to murder her or anyone else.

Didnt the company that uparmours humvees say the could double production like a year ago? I'm sure i read that.Besides Rumsfelds statement was bullshit anyway, Iraq wasnyt an imminent threat, it wasnt Nazi Germany at the start of WW2, they had all the time they wanted to prepare for that invasion, thats not what it was about though, their arent enough uparmoured vehicles for the same reason there wernet enough troops on the ground to begin with. War is not a business venture with a bottom line.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]He lost an arm in Iraq; the Army wants money

Spc. Robert Loria is stuck at Fort Hood, Texas

By Dianna Cahn

Times Herald-Record

dcahn@th-record.com

Middletown – He lost his arm serving his country in Iraq.

Now this wounded soldier is being discharged from his company in Fort Hood, Texas, without enough gas money to get home. In fact, the Army says 27-year-old Spc. Robert Loria owes it close to $2,000, and confiscated his last paycheck.

"There's people in my unit right now – one of my team leaders [who was] over in Iraq with me, is doing everything he can to help me .... but it's looking bleak," Loria said by telephone from Fort Hood yesterday. "It's coming up on Christmas and I have no way of getting home."

Loria's expected discharge yesterday came a day after the public got a rare view of disgruntled soldiers in Kuwait peppering Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld with questions about their lack of adequate armor in Iraq.

Like many soldiers wounded in Iraq, Loria's injuries were caused by a roadside bombing. It happened in February when his team from the 588th Battalion's Bravo Company was going to help evacuate an area in Baqubah, a town 40 miles north of Baghdad. A bomb had just ripped off another soldier's arm. Loria's Humvee drove into an ambush.

When the second bomb exploded, it tore Loria's left hand and forearm off, split his femur in two and shot shrapnel through the left side of his body. Months later, he was still recuperating at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., and just beginning to adjust to life without a hand, when he was released back to Fort Hood.

AFTER SEVERAL MORE MONTHS, the Army is releasing Loria. But "clearing Fort Hood," as the troops say, takes paperwork. Lots of it.

Loria thought he'd done it all, and was getting ready to collect $4,486 in final Army pay.

Then he was hit with another bomb. The Army had another tally – of money it says Loria owed to his government.

A Separation Pay Worksheet given to Loria showed the numbers: $2,408.33 for 10 months of family separation pay that the Army erroneously paid Loria after he'd returned stateside, as a patient at Walter Reed; $2,204.25 that Loria received for travel expenses from Fort Hood back to Walter Reed for a follow-up visit, after the travel paperwork submitted by Loria never reached the correct desk. And $310 for missing items on his returned equipment inventory list.

"There was stuff lost in transportation, others damaged in the accident," Loria said of the day he lost his hand. "When it went up the chain of command, the military denied coverage."

Including taxes, the amount Loria owed totaled $6,255.50. The last line on the worksheet subtracted that total from his final Army payout and found $1,768.81 "due us."

"It's nerve-racking," Loria said. "After everything I have done, it's almost like I am being abandoned, like, you did your job for us and now you are no use. That's how it feels."

AT HOME in Middletown, yesterday, Loria's wife, Christine, was beside herself.

"They want us to sacrifice more," she said, her voice quavering. "My husband has already sacrificed more than he should have to."

For weeks now, Christine has been telling her 3-year-old son, Jonathan, that Robbie, who is not his birth father, will be coming home any day now.

But the Army has delayed Loria's release at least five times already, she said, leaving a little boy confused and angry.

"Rob was supposed to be here on Saturday," she said. "Now [Jonathan] is mad at me. How do you explain something you yourself don't understand?"

Christine said the Department of Veterans Affairs has been helpful in giving Loria guidance about how to get his life back on track, offering vocation rehabilitation to "teach them to go back out in the world with the limitations they have."

But the Army brass has been unreceptive, she said.

The Lorias also contacted the offices of U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-Saugerties. Hinchey's office responded.

"There's enough to go on here to call the Army on it and see if it can get worked out," said Hinchey aide Dan Ahouse. "We are expressing to the Pentagon that based on what we see here, we don't see that Mr. Loria is being treated the way we think our veterans returning from Iraq should be treated."

Army officials at Fort Hood could not be reached for comment yesterday.

"I don't want this to happen to another family," Christine Loria said. "Him being blown up was supposed to be the worst thing, but it wasn't. That the military doesn't care was the worst."

The end of her rope

Christine Loria was at the end of her rope earlier this week when she called her wounded husband's commanders at Fort Hood, Texas, and gave them a piece of her mind.

The Army was discharging her husband, Robert, after he lost his arm and suffered other severe injuries in Iraq, without even gas money to drive his car home.

"I am up here and he's there. That's 1,800 miles away," she said. "I had to call his chain of command and scream at them."

Their reaction she said, was "very mature."

"If he feels that way, why is his wife talking for him? Why doesn't he come talk to us himself?" she remembers them asking her.

"Because on some level, he still respects you," she answered. "I don't have that problem."

Dianna Cahn

Who to call to help

Outraged about Army Spc. Robert Loria's plight? Speak your mind. Below are contact numbers for federal legislators and defense officials.

U.S. Senate: Hillary Clinton: 202-224-4451; Charles Schumer: 212-486-4430

U.S. House of Representatives: Maurice Hinchey: 845-344-3211; Sue Kelly: 845-897-5200

Secretary of Defense: Donald Rumsfeld: 703-692-7100

Fort Hood: Major General James D. Thurman: 254-288-2255 or Fort Hood operator at 254-287-1110; Public Information Officer Jim Whitmeyer: 254-287-0103

Link

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]No one ever took responsibility for Margaret Hassans death, personally I think it was because it would have been considered unnacceptable even by many anti-western Iraqis, I trhink the reason it was done is because somebody wanted to make a point that it didnt matter who she was married to, or how long she'd helped the Iraqis, she was a foreigner and thats enough for them to murder her or anyone else.

My theory based on the information that I've gathered is that she was either killed in retalliation to the Fallujah assault as her death coincided with the siege or because in November the chain tightened so much on the insurgents they weren't able to move her to another city and executed her repulsing the entire world community.

A rather intresting fact is that after the group keeping her threatened to hand her over to Al-Zarqawi he issued a statement promising to release her immiditaly if she falls into his hands.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]No one ever took responsibility for Margaret Hassans death, personally I think it was because it would have been considered unnacceptable even by many anti-western Iraqis, I trhink the reason it was done is because somebody wanted to make a point that it didnt matter who she was married to, or how long she'd helped the Iraqis, she was a foreigner and thats enough for them to murder her or anyone else.

My theory based on the information that I've gathered is that she was either killed in retalliation to the Fallujah assault as her death coincided with the siege or because in November the chain tightened so much on the insurgents they weren't able to move her to another city and executed her repulsing the entire world community.

A rather intresting fact is that after the group keeping her threatened to hand her over to Al-Zarqawi he issued a statement promising to release her immiditaly if she falls into his hands.

Really? Do you have a link for that? (Too lazy to look)

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]No one ever took responsibility for Margaret Hassans death, personally I think it was because it would have been considered unnacceptable even by many anti-western Iraqis, I trhink the reason it was done is because somebody wanted to make a point that it didnt matter who she was married to, or how long she'd helped the Iraqis, she was a foreigner and thats enough for them to murder her or anyone else.

My theory based on the information that I've gathered is that she was either killed in retalliation to the Fallujah assault as her death coincided with the siege or because in November the chain tightened so much on the insurgents they weren't able to move her to another city and executed her repulsing the entire world community.

A rather intresting fact is that after the group keeping her threatened to hand her over to Al-Zarqawi he issued a statement promising to release her immiditaly if she falls into his hands.

Really? Do you have a link for that? (Too lazy to look)

Sure

Zarqawi group calls for Hassan’s release – Website

Quote[/b] ]A statement purportedly linked to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi group was posted on a website Friday, urging the captors of the British aid worker Margaret Hassan in Iraq to release her "unless she is proven to be a collaborator".

"We call on those responsible for her captivity to release her unless she is proven to be a collaborator" with the U.S. occupation forces, the statement said. It also said that the kidnappers were obligated to release any poof they might be holding  against her.

The authenticity of the statement could not be verified.  

"If this (collaboration) is proven, they should show it clearly to people lest our religion is accused of things that are not true," the statement added.

It also harshly criticized Hassan's kidnappers for saying that they would turn her over to Zarqawi's group, adding that if they did so, "we will release her immediately unless she is proven to have conspired against Muslims".

"It's meaningless to try to outbid us as some ... did by saying that they would turn the captive Margaret Hassan over to us within 48 hours unless their demands are met," the statement said.

"Those using this captive as a bargaining chip do not truly know our religion ... (which states that) women not involved in combat should not be attacked," it said.

The statement also said that the group is "not a fan of war" or "enamored of bloodshed."

Hassan’s captors have demanded that British forces leave Iraq in exchange for Hassan’s life. The statement came just one day after the expiry of the deadline to turn Hassan over to Zarqawi's group.  

Britain didn’t respond to the captors’ threat, which coincided with the redeployment of hundreds of British troops in risky areas near Baghdad, responding to a U.S. request, to allow U.S. soldiers to tackle resistance in Fallujah.  

Margaret Hassan, 59, is an Irish-British-Iraqi woman who has been doing humanitarian work in Iraq over the past 30 years, including distributing medicine and food. She was abducted in Baghdad on Oct. 19.

Hassan's captors released a video on Tuesday in which they vowed to turn Hassan over to Zarqawi unless Britain withdrew all its 8,500 forces from Iraq within 48 hours.

Hassan is the eighth woman hostage to have been kidnapped in Iraq over the past six months. Others, including two Italian aid workers who were held for three weeks last month, and have been released unharmed.

Kinda shreds to pieces the view of a black and white world with Zarqawi representing all that is pure evil.Even more intriguing was a once top story of his group raiding a house to release two Iraqi children that were kidnapped for ransom.Not trying to defend this man or to brush aside his barbaric crimes but just to point out the contrasts in this war.

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]The statement also said that the group is "not a fan of war" or "enamored of bloodshed."

Eeehh. I really don't think it shreds anything to pieces. They're still willing to perform atrocious acts, they're just a bit more descriminating than the average crazy fundamentalist.

Who was it? Tawhid wal Jihad or Ansar al Sunna that executed Shosei Koda?

Those groups performing kidnappings and executions are nothing less than terrorist factions in my opinion.

Slaughtering captives especially ones so completely irrelevant as some witless japanese tourist (then blaming americans). Seems to me that those groups are fairly enamored with the attention garnered by such gruesome methods of killing.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/11/iraq.soldier/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD (CNN) -- A U.S. soldier has been sentenced to three years in prison, forfeiture of all pay and a dishonorable discharge after he pleaded guilty to the killing of a severely wounded Iraqi civilian, the U.S. military said in a statement.

Staff Sgt. Johnny M. Horne Jr., 30, of Winston-Salem, North Carolina, accepted a plea bargain Friday to one specification of murder and one specification of conspiracy to commit murder, the military said.

The convictions stemmed from Horne's killing on August 18 of the civilian in Baghdad's Sadr City, where fighting raged at the time between U.S. troops and militia loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

The killing took place in Baghdad's Sadr City, during widespread fighting.

The pleas occurred during a general court-martial on the Camp Al-Tahreer in Baghdad.

A panel of seven senior service members passed the sentence Friday at 11:30 p.m. (3:30 p.m. ET), after hearing testimony from the prosecution and the defense.

They deliberated for approximately four hours before reaching their decision.

Horne is a member of Company C, 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, Fort Riley, Kansas.

[EiZei 0]

3 years for murder?

[red oct 2]

just when you think the Pentagon couldn't give insurgents anymore reasons to fight us

the law states that soldier should face execution for murder or at least life. the only way this war would be won is by image. and so far, the government seems pretty pitiful making ours seem positive. its always one step forward and three steps back. maybe Bush should stop trying to convince us that Iraq is going to be a stable democracy (which over 50% of the population believe won't happen anytime soon)  and maybe try convincing Iraqi's that everything is going to be okay, they'll have a stable democracy and all that other crap.

[quicksand 0]

A Year On, Iraq's Rebels Unfazed by Saddam Capture

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD (Reuters) - What a difference a year makes. Or then again, maybe not.

Last December, a haggard-looking Saddam Hussein was pulled from a hole in the ground not far from his ancestral home of Tikrit and taken into custody by jubilant U.S. troops.

President Bush hailed it as a breakthrough, saying he expected his arch foe to be tried, convicted and put to death -- adding that would be up to the Iraqi courts.

"In the history of Iraq, a dark and painful era is over," Bush declared in a television address the day after the capture on Dec. 13.

"A hopeful day has arrived. All Iraqis can now come together and reject violence and build a new Iraq."

A year on, twice as many U.S. soldiers have been killed by insurgents since Saddam's capture than in the period before, and thousands of Iraqis have died. There are fears elections on Jan. 30 could be derailed by the mayhem.

And Bush's hoped-for trial of Saddam appears no nearer to happening, despite repeated pledges from Iraqi officials.

It all looked rosier when Paul Bremer, then U.S. governor of Iraq, declared: "Ladies and Gentlemen, we got him!" It was believed then that Saddam's capture would put a damper on the insurgency, depriving it of a figurehead and financier.

"HUGE BLOW"

General John Abizaid, head of U.S. Central Command, said Saddam's detention had dealt the insurgency "a huge psychological blow" that would "pay great benefits over time."

In the weeks that followed, evidence did seem to suggest the guerrillas may have been set back. Attacks on U.S. forces dropped to around 17 a day from as many as 50 before.  

Commanders grew confident that they were making headway.

In January, Major General Ray Odierno, the commander of the 4th Infantry Division, whose troops got credit for snatching the "Ace of Spades," declared the insurgency to be "on its knees" and only a "sporadic threat."

"I believe within six months, I think you're going to see some normalcy," he told the Pentagon press corps.

The confidence was infectious.

"Systematically we have captured or killed the individuals directing the insurgency," said Major General Charles Swannack, the commander of the 82nd Airborne, in March.

He was responsible for the volatile western region of Iraq, including the cities of Falluja and Ramadi. A month after he spoke, Falluja fell into the hands of guerrillas and was only wrested back following a massive U.S. offensive last month. Fighting continues.

The insurgency has broadened and strengthened, attracting fresh recruits and finding new ways of striking U.S. troops and their Iraqi security force allies.

TRYING TO TRY SADDAM

Even in the capital, hardly a day has gone by without a car bomb or guerrilla attack. Some areas, including central Haifa Street, are insurgent strongholds.

Meanwhile, what has become of Saddam?

Iraqi officials said they thought he could be convicted and even executed by July. Saddam did appear in court that month and was informed of the general charges against him.

But since then little progress appears to have been made. The head of the special tribunal set up to try him, Salem Chalabi, has been replaced. Investigators are only beginning to sift through the evidence.

Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said in August he wanted proceedings sped up and said trials against Saddam and his senior henchmen should begin by the end of the year.

Officials at the special tribunal could not be reached for comment on Saturday, but a U.S. embassy official said he would be urging Iraqi authorities to prepare a statement for the anniversary of Saddam's capture on the status of his trial. It was not clear when that statement would be made.

It's been a long year.

Just to add to a otherwise self-explenatory article the back of the insurgency has also been broken as of last month.Judging by how things are going on today in Iraq,I will just have to wait and see jubilant commanders claiming that it hands have been tied up,head squished and it's torso ripped apart and then just maybe we'll see some actual progress with no reverse effects.

[sanctuary 19]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/11/iraq.soldier/index.html

found this link about this story

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....734&e=2

I can't believe what i just read, someone murdered a civilian that has nothing to do with all those damned fights and this kind of "soldier" will just have a -maximum- sentence of 10 years (and so certainly not half this max sentence).

Winning the hearts ?

I just hope that even the pro-Bush folks will not even attempt to defend or excuse this murderer. That crazyness just must stop.

[kerosene 0]

I seem to be the only person who finds it totally believeable that he got 3 years.

What about the U.S militarys track record on dead foreigners makes this a shock, theres a long list of controversial/dodgy sentances given to U.S soldiers when they kill civilians or friendly non-american troops. A U.S president/government's more likley to worry about the negative effect that a harsh sentacnce on a soldier will have on thier image at home, than the effect of a lenient sentance.

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]Documents show probes of other Iraq abuse cases

(Agencies)

Updated: 2004-12-15 14:13

Internal US Navy documents released as a result of a court order show that the Navy investigated a number of alleged abuses of Iraqi prisoners by US Marines, including an alleged mock execution of four Iraqi juveniles.

The documents, which were obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union, show that marines were punished in some instances while other cases were closed after preliminary investigations concluded the allegations could not be substantiated.

A spread sheet showing the disposition of detainee abuse cases investigated by the Naval Criminal Investigative Services (NCIS) said the alleged mock execution was one of several incidents involving four marine suspects in Adiwaniya, Iraq between June 1 and July 6, 2003.

They were alleged to have "ordered four juvenile looters to kneel beside two shallow fighting holes and pistol was discharged to conduct a mock execution," the document said.

Two suspects were found guilty of dereliction of duty and sentenced to 30 days of hard labor, while another was reduced in rank, forfeited two-thirds pay for a month and placed under unspecified restriction for 14 days after being found guilty of detainee abuse.

Charges against the fourth were withdrawn, according to the document.

Another entry shows that five marines were alleged to have taken part in shocking a detainee with an electric transformer at a holding area at Al Mamudiyah in April 2004.

An unidentified witness reported that "the detainee 'danced' as he was shocked," according to the document.

A general court martial in May 2004 found one marine guilty of "assault, cruelty and mistreatment, dereliction of duty and conspiracy to assault a detainee," the document said. He was sentenced to a year in prison.

Another marine was sentenced to eight months in prison in the case after being found guilty of similar charges by a special court martial. Three other special court martials were pending, according to the document.

In another case in Al Mamudiyah in August 2004, a detainee suffered second degree burns on the back of his hands.

The document said the detainee asked to use alcohol-based hand sanitizer liquid during a bathroom visit. A marine guard squirted some into the detainee's hands, but the excess formed a puddle on the floor.

"As the marine guard turned to dispose of the empty bottle, (the accused marine) lit a match and threw it into the puddle of hand sanitizer. The liquid ignited and the flames burned the detainee," it said.

The unidentified marine was found guilty of "assault by means likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm," and sentenced to 90 days confinement and a reduction in rank.

In another case cited in the documents, a marine guard shot and killed a detainee identified as Hamdan Shibey on March 29, 2003.

"The investigation determined that the detainee attacked the marine guard and the guard acted in self-defense when he shot the detainee that was lunging for the guard's service rifle," the document said.

The ACLU said the documents showed that abuse and even torture of detainees by marines was widespread.

"This kind of widespread abuse could not have taken place without a leadership failure of the highest order," said Anthony Romero, ACLU's executive director.

Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita said he had no information on the cases cited in the documents, which have not been previously disclosed.

He denied criticism by human rights groups that the military often investigated abuses only after they had come under media scrutiny.

"Many of the cases that are being celebrated have had disposition already made," he said. "And there may be a desire that disposition when it's made be publicized, but that's a different thing from saying that we're reacting to publicity."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/15/content_400401.htm

[brgnorway 0]

Now this is a bit more serious than an "ordinary" roadside bomb!

Quote[/b] ]

Blast at US Mosul base kills 22

Twenty-two people have been killed and at least 50 injured in an attack at a US military base in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, the US military says.

Unknown assailants fired multiple rocket and mortar rounds, apparently at a dining hall in the Camp Merez base, at around 1200 (0900 GMT).

It is not clear how many US troops were among the casualties.

The attack comes amid an upsurge of violence in the run-up to elections planned for 30 January next year.

A statement attributed to the Ansar al-Sunna militant group on an Islamist website said the group was responsible for the attack.

Pentagon sources said the casualty figures could rise.

Spate of attacks

Witnesses said they heard several explosions and saw smoke rising from the base, situated at an airfield south-west of Mosul.

Correspondents say personnel at the base - both military and civilian contractors - knew the dining hall was a potential target as it was the one place in the base where they congregated regularly.

Mosul has experienced a spate of attacks since the middle of November when insurgents overran police stations, looting weapons.

Much of the centre of the town is off limits to Iraqi security forces and US troops.

The US military said that earlier in the day Iraqi police repelled an attack by insurgents on a police station in the city centre.

And AP news agency reported that hundreds of students have been demonstrating in the city demanding that US troops stop entering homes and mosques.

Mosul, Iraq's third biggest city and 370km (250 miles) north of Baghdad, is mainly Sunni Muslim. There are simmering tensions between Arab and Kurdish communities.

There have been almost daily attacks on US and Iraqi forces in the city during the last month.

About 80 bodies have been found in and around Mosul since the beginning of December. Many were members of the Iraqi National Guard.

The city was the scene of the worst single incident for the US military in Iraq.

Two Black Hawk helicopters collided over the city in November 2003 killing 17 soldiers and injuring another five.

From BBC World News

[denoir 0]

Some good news:

Journalists freed in Iraq [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]

Militants in Iraq have freed French reporters Georges Malbrunot and Christian Chesnot, who were taken hostage on 20 August.

The French foreign ministry confirmed an Arabic TV report that the two men had been set free and said they would return to France on Wednesday. They were abducted while driving to the city of Najaf and appeared on a video released in October by their captors.

Their captors said they had been freed because of France's anti-war stance. French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin announced the news to parliament.

"I have the profound joy of announcing that Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot have been freed," he told the Senate, the upper house of parliament.

Thierry Chesnot, brother of Christian, told the French news agency AFP that they had been taken to Amman, Jordan. Official French statements made no mention of any ransom being paid or other deal to secure the two men's release.

Long ordeal

Mr Chesnot and Mr Malbrunot are thought to have been the longest-held Western hostages in Iraq.

The French press ran a continuous campaign for their release. Mr Chesnot, 37, was working for Radio France Internationale and Mr Malbrunot, 41, for Le Figaro daily newspaper.

They were taken with their Syrian driver, Mohammed al-Jundi, who was later found during the US-led assault on Falluja. The journalists' captors - the Islamic Army in Iraq (IAI) - initially demanded that France scrap a law banning Muslim headscarves from being worn in schools - a demand shunned by France.

Ransom dilemma

They were later reported to have requested a ransom but a statement quoted by Arabic TV channel al-Jazeera on Tuesday said the reporters were freed for political reasons.

They were freed "because they were proven not to spy for US forces, in response to appeals and demands from Islamic institutions and bodies, and in appreciation of the French government's stand on the Iraq issue and the two journalists' stand on the Palestinian cause", the IAI was quoted as saying. Governments have been reluctant to pay ransoms for hostages taken in Iraq and elsewhere in order not to encourage further abductions.

When two Italian hostages were freed in Iraq in September, the government in Rome denied paying a ransom. However a senior Italian politician said at the time that he believed a ransom of $1m or more had been paid for the two aid workers, Simona Pari and Simona Torretta.

MP Gustavo Selva described the denial as purely "official".

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Their captors said they had been freed because of France's anti-war stance. French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin announced the news to parliament.

That and the fact that they are alive and well shows the world that resisting the coalition of the willing's fierce "war on terror" in Iraq - led by USA and Britain  - actually makes a difference.

One could always argue that terror conserns us all - and it does - but for the most part I'd say that the iraqi opposition in all it's variety and factions actually resemble resistance more than terrorists (not including beheadings and bombings of civilians of course) .

It ought to be worrying though that they are able to conduct a rocket strike in the middle of a major US base. Especially when there are 22 casualties instead of the ordinary couple of wounded.