The Iraq thread 4

[ericz 0]

"Moderate" Islamists speak out from the U.S's closest "ally" in the mideast.

Quote[/b] ]Saudi Religious Scholars Support Holy War

58 minutes ago   Middle East - AP

By DONNA ABU-NASR, Associated Press Writer

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Prominent Saudi religious scholars urged Iraqis to support militants waging holy war against the U.S.-led coalition forces as American troops prepared Saturday for a major assault on the insurgent hotbed of Fallujah.

AP Photo

 

The 26 Saudi scholars and preachers said in an open letter to the Iraqi people that their appeal was prompted by "the extraordinary situation through which the Iraqis are passing which calls for unity and exchange of views." The letter was posted on the Internet.

"At no time in history has a whole people been violated ... by propaganda that's been proved false," Sheik Awad al-Qarni, one of the scholars, told Al-Arabiya TV.

"The U.S. forces are still destroying towns on the heads of their people and killing women and children. What's going on in Iraq (news - web sites) is a result of the big crime of America's occupation of Iraq."

In their letter, the scholars stressed that armed attacks by militant Iraqi groups on U.S. troops and their allies in Iraq represent "legitimate" resistance.

The scholars were careful to direct their appeal to Iraqis only and stayed away from issuing a general, Muslim-wide call for holy war. They also identified the military as the target, one that is considered legitimate by many Arabs who view U.S. troops and their allies as occupiers.

The independent scholars — some of whom have been criticized in the past for their extremist views — apparently did not want to antagonize the Saudi government, a U.S. ally, or appear to be flouting its efforts to fight terrorism.

Saudi Arabia has sealed off its long border with Iraq and bars people from crossing into that country. Its most senior clerics issued a statement last year saying the call for jihad — or holy war — should only come from the ruler and should not be based on edicts issued by individual clergymen.

Saudi officials did not comment on the latest statement.

The clerics' appeal came as U.S. troops, backed by air and artillery power and Iraqi security forces, were gearing up for a major assault on Fallujah.

The clerics issued a fatwa, or religious edict, prohibiting Iraqis from offering any support for military operations carried out by U.S. forces against insurgent strongholds.

"Fighting the occupiers is a duty for all those who are able," the letter said. "It is a jihad to push back the assailants. Resistance is a legitimate right. A Muslim must not inflict harm on any resistance man or inform on them. Instead, they should be supported and protected."

Besides al-Qarni, the prominent scholars signing the letter included Sheik Safar al-Hawali, Sheik Nasser al-Omar, Sheik Salman al-Awdah and Sheik Sharif Hatem al-Aouni.

Al-Hawali, who was jailed in the 1990s for five years without trial because he criticized U.S. involvement in the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites) against Iraq, once was close to Saudi-born al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden (news - web sites). He opposed the presence of U.S. troops in the kingdom.

His name appeared this month on a list issued by a group of Arab intellectuals seeking to prosecute prominent clerics for encouraging terrorism.

The scholars said inter-Iraqi fighting would cause "great damage to the Iraqis and give a free service to the Jews who are infiltrating into Iraq and to the coalition forces which exploit differences to consolidate their domination."

Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam and home to its two holiest cities, has launched a campaign against militants. The crackdown began after al-Qaida-affiliated operatives attacked three residential compounds in Riyadh in May 2003 and killed dozens of people, bringing terrorism to the kingdom for the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks.

[denoir 0]

Fixing the problem of Falluja [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]

As the last light faded at our forward base, the wiry, tough-looking staff sergeant turned to a small group of marines.

"We're not going into Falluja to give out fuzzy bears and warm hugs," he said.

We were just a short distance from the city the marines expect shortly to storm with overwhelming force of arms.

Senior officers here say the final order to go in can come only from the Iraqi Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi.

But, in the early hours of Saturday, the marines launched a preliminary attack. This was their biggest military operation since they began steadily tightening the noose on Falluja's insurgents.

With flashes in the night sky and the sound of automatic fire marking their progress, US ground forces moved through the outskirts of Falluja. It was a probing attack, a feint designed to draw out the insurgents and reveal new targets for aircraft and artillery.

The sound of war-planes overhead was constant until dawn.

On Saturday morning, we heard the regular "thump-thump" of the marines' offensive forward battery, a terrifying 155mm Howitzer. In this action, the marines say they destroyed three barricaded fighting positions, an anti-aircraft weapon and a weapons cache.

High morale

At our forward base, rockets from the insurgents fizzed overhead a couple of times a day, sending the marines scrambling for cover.

But morale is high. "When we go in, we're going thousands strong and they won't know what hit 'em," said another young marine. We got the same message from the deputy commanding general here, Denis Hajlik. "We're gonna whack 'em," he told a roomful of newly-embedded journalists. This is not bloodlust. The marines know better than anyone the reality of combat.

But their mission has changed.

They swept into Iraq in a short, victorious campaign, and quickly settled down to nation-building and peacekeeping.

Now they are about to conduct a frontal assault on a medium-sized city. Some of those who took part in Operation Iraqi Freedom - as last year's invasion is called - wonder what happened to the "flowers and sweets" that greeted them so promisingly at first.

"Everyone was so friendly when we got to Iraq," said one 19-year-old, slightly bewildered. "I just don't know what happened."

There are few doubters though.

Many of the marines see the Falluja operation as a chance to fix the problem, and turn the tide against the insurgents. They also show a genuine concern for civilians of Falluja.

"If we can give the innocent civilians back their city, that would be a wonderful thing to do for them," said 2nd Lieutenant Douglas Bahrns, whose squad will fight their way through one of the toughest sectors of Falluja.

Ready to fight

The Marines will be going in very heavy, with M1 A1 Abrams tanks, tracked armoured personnel carriers equipped with cannons and heavy machine guns, mortars, high-power sniper rifles and a variant of the US Army's Stryker vehicle, which deflects rocket-propelled grenades with metal lattice-work on its outer skin.

"The competence and compassion of my marines will mitigate any civilian casualties," said Lieutenant-Colonel Gareth Brandl when asked how he could control where all this firepower would be directed in the narrow streets and alleys of Falluja.

The colonel, a charismatic young officer who is on his second tour in Iraq, will command one of the battalions "at the tip of the spear" in the assault. We met him in his operations centre, an old Iraqi army barracks, which still had on its wall a large picture of Saddam, dressed as Saladin. Saddam looked down on Colonel Brandl as he pored over maps with his officers and gave out orders on exactly how the operation to take Falluja would go.

The big question is whether the rebels will stay and fight, or if they will simply melt away, as guerrillas tend to do when faced with a large conventional force. At the last count, by US military intelligence, the rebels numbered several thousand strong. But no one knows if they are still there. Colonel Brandl said he would be quite happy if his marines could just walk into Falluja, but they were ready for a fight.

The threats include roadside bombs, suicide bombers, booby traps, bombs thrown from roof-tops, mosques used as sniper positions, and a small group of Islamist fighters who believe they are about to seek martyrdom in a holy war. But for the highly-professional marines, Falluja is also a return to the simplicity of combat after the complexities of peacekeeping and an enemy that never shows itself.

"The marines that I have had wounded over the past five months have been attacked by a faceless enemy," said Colonel Brandl.

"But the enemy has got a face. He's called Satan. He lives in Falluja. And we're going to destroy him."

Great, nuts on both sides

Anyway, this is bad, very bad. People seem to think however that there is a good solution to Falluja. I think we are way beyond good solutions in Iraq.

As Kofi Annan said, an attack will compromise the coming election, alienate the regular Iraqis and radicalize the resistance. But what's the alternative? They can't very well let Falluja to be an encalve of its own, in the middle of Iraq. Especially not since it is a center for the insurgency.

This has to be done. Falluja has to fall if Iraq is going to be even a somewhat normal country. It will kill a lot of people. Heaps of women and children will die. The Americans will become even more hated.

That's the reality of the choices in Iraq today: bad or bad. Again a testament to the cost of this war that Bush took so lightly when he chose it.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Great, nuts on both sides

That's nothing denoir,you should really read this article if you want to know a thing or two about religious fanatism in Iraq.

Marines turn to God

Quote[/b] ]Near Fallujah - With US forces massing outside Fallujah, 35 marines swayed to Christian rock music and asked Jesus Christ to protect them in what could be the biggest battle since American troops invaded Iraq last year.

Men with buzzcuts and clad in their camouflage waved their hands in the air, M-16 assault rifles beside them, and chanted heavy metal-flavoured lyrics in praise of Christ late on Friday in a yellow-brick chapel.

They counted among thousands of troops surrounding the city of Fallujah, seeking solace as they awaited Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's decision on whether or not to invade Fallujah.

"You are the sovereign. You're name is holy. You are the pure spotless lamb," a female voice cried out on the loudspeakers as the marines clapped their hands and closed their eyes, reflecting on what lay ahead for them.

The US military, with many soldiers coming from the conservative American south and midwest, has deep Christian roots.

Comforting

In times that fighting looms, many soldiers draw on their evangelical or born-again heritage to help them face the battle.

"It's always comforting. Church attendance is always up before the big push," said first sergeant Miles Thatford.

"Sometimes, all you've got is God."

Between the service's electric guitar religious tunes, marines stepped up on the chapel's small stage and recited a verse of scripture, meant to fortify them for war.

One spoke of their Old Testament hero, a shepherd who would become Israel's king, battling the Philistines 3 000 years ago.

"Thus David prevailed over the Philistines," the marine said, reading from scripture, and the marines shouted back "Hoorah, King David," using their signature grunt of approval.

The marines drew parallels from the verse with their present situation, where they perceive themselves as warriors fighting barbaric men opposed to all that is good in the world.

"Victory belongs to the Lord," another young marine read.

Their chaplain, named Horne, told the worshippers they were stationed outside Fallujah to bring the Iraqis "freedom from oppression, rape, torture and murder ... We ask you God to bless us in that effort."

Holy oil

The marines then lined up and their chaplain blessed them with holy oil to protect them.

"God's people would be anointed with oil," the chaplain said, as he lightly dabbed oil on the marines' foreheads.

The crowd then followed him outside their small auditorium for a baptism of about a half-dozen marines who had just found Christ.

The young men lined up and at least three of them stripped down to their shorts.

The three laid down in a rubber dinghy filled with water and the chaplain's assistant, navy corpsman Richard Vaughn, plunged their heads beneath the surface.

Smiling, Vaughn baptised them "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Dripping wet, corporal Keith Arguelles beamed after his baptism.

"I just wanted to make sure I did this before I headed into the fight," he said on the military base not far from the city of Fallujah.

Fallujah newly built hospital destroyed by US airstrike

Quote[/b] ]Fallujah - A newly-built hospital, which was about to be inaugurated, was destroyed on Saturday morning in the flashpoint Iraqi city of Fallujah by two missiles, its director said.

The Nazzal general hospital had been built with funds from Saudi donors who belonged to an Islamic-Saudi relief agency, Doctor Ali Hayad told AFP.

The building had been ready for two weeks, fully furnished with vital medical equipment and medicine. It also housed an analytical laboratory.

Fallujah, a Sunni Muslim bastion 50km west of Baghdad, has come under an increasing storm of US aerial bombardments in recent weeks as US troops turn up the heat of insurgents who are believed to be holed up inside.

They've shot at ambulances during the first siege but now they destroy an entire hospital that was just short of being inaugurated providing medical service that could have saved the lifes of hundreads of Iraqi civillians during the coming up  battle.It sickens me all the way to my stomach to see their double standards of accusing insurgents of using barbaric tactics.

It seems the more I read into this the more puzzling is the question who is the real enemy of Iraq and the more intriguing is the answer.

[python3 0]

This has to be done. Falluja has to fall if Iraq is going to be even a somewhat normal country. It will kill a lot of people. Heaps of women and children will die. The Americans will become even more hated.

well, the good news is, that 80% of the pop. has fled already, leaving 50,000 or so. Still will be civilian casualties though. Completely disgusted with 155mm artillery being used to shell a city, and the destruction of the hospital though.

Look at samarra, the US and Iraqi national guard have "liberated" the city, and there are still attacks going on. Same is gonna happen in falluja. They will melt away to fight another day. Besides, annan is right, the operation will only result in civilian deaths coupled with the fcat zarqawi wont be captured, i see a spike in the insurgency ahead. Not to mention an attack will lead to a boycott of the elections, so in the end it wont do the no good. But like you said, all choices are bad choices.

My thoughts and prayers are with those in falluja in the coming weeks.

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]At dawn Sunday, armed rebels launched deadly attacks against police stations in western Anbar province, killing 22 people according to police and hospital officials. At least seven of those killed were policemen, who were lined up and shot execution style.

form http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6403689/

boy, seems like the insurgency has the capability to do anything. can u imagine what is gonna happen once the US leaves. Look at other insurgencies such as hezbaollah. boy they did a number on israel and they started out with a core group of only a few hundred.

The americasn are lucky the sunni's dont have a major state backing them like Iran backing Hezbollah. But with time, they gain experience as well.

[billybob2002 0]

http://ablekaneadventures.blogspot.com/

Quote[/b] ]

Fallujah-Ramadi operations update

FALLUJAH, Iraq -- Iraqi Security Forces and the I Marine Expeditionary Force continue to degrade and disrupt anti-Iraqi forces in the Fallujah-Ramadi area. I Marine Expeditionary Force employed U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Air Force air power to deliver precision munitions to destroy preplanned targets in Fallujah.

Nov. 4, I Marine Expeditionary Force conducted coordinated offensive operations in and around the Fallujah-Ramadi area, destroying a command post, insurgent positions, fortified barriers and a weapons cache.

At 4:40 p.m., Nov. 4, a U.S. Air Force aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, destroyed two buildings being fortified by armed insurgents in the southeastern part of the city as part of a preplanned target.

At 8:25 p.m., Nov. 4, a U.S. Marine Corps aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, destroyed barriers used to fortify an area in the southeast part of the city. This strike was also preplanned.

At 8:55 p.m., Nov. 4, a U.S. Marine Corps aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, destroyed another preplanned target -- an IED-laden offensive position in the southeast part of the city. Secondary explosions were observed.

At 10:40 p.m., a U.S. Air Force aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, destroyed barricaded fighting positions in the northern part of the city as a preplanned target.

Then, at 1:10 a.m. Nov. 5, U.S. Marine Corps aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, used precision munitions to destroy a known weapons cache. It was a preplanned target.

In the last 24 hours, I Marine Expeditionary Force conducted coordinated offensive operations in and around the Fallujah-Ramadi area. I MEF destroyed three barricaded fighting positions, and anti-aircraft weapon and a weapons cache.

At 3:30 a.m., Nov. 5, a U.S. Marine Corps aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, destroyed a preplanned target. They destroyed a building known to have anti-aircraft capabilities.

At 7:25 p.m., Nov. 5, a U.S. Marine Corps aircraft, supporting a Marine Corps element, used precision munitions to destroy a weapons cache.

At 11:30 p.m., Nov. 5, a U.S. Air Force aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, destroyed an anti-aircraft weapon. There were significant secondary explosions.

At 12:20 a.m., Nov. 6, a U.S. Air Force aircraft, supporting a U.S. Marine Corps element, destroyed three barricaded fighting positions.

Between Monday, Nov. 1, and Nov. 5 Multinational Forces-West personnel have recovered and destroyed 129 mortars, 42 artillery shells, 38 Rocket-Propelled Grenades, 12 rockets, seven mines, 126 detonators, 350 electronic timers, 16 blasting caps, 14 grenades, three sticks of dynamite, eight AK-47s and more than a thousand rounds of ammunition.

Finally, a photo to finish off the day’s entry. This is called “Sun behind the wires†and was shot Nov. 4 on the western edge of the Green Zone.

[Baphomet 0]

What a shitstorm this whole campaign in Iraq has created. It seems very senseless to me. However I must say. I sympathize with one quote:

Resistance is a legitimate right.

... and it is. I think it's terrible right now the unwarranted killings that are going on over there, on both sides. However I believe that the citizens of Iraq are legitimately free to make the decision to fight their occupiers. I can understand where they're coming from and I can see that extreme frustration and hopelessness would drive them to that point.

I sat here folding laundry, and while I'm doing that. Some guy my age from the United States will be getting ready to invade a city in the next few days which may be his last.

It fucking sucks. It really does. Especially being as that regardless of who wins the fight. It's a lose-lose situation. Neither side is fighting for something that should have even been fought over to begin with. It all seems trite when you step back and consider realistically what it's going to accomplish.

[IceFire 0]

Regardless of how you feel about the war, I think we should all take a few minutes to pray for those Marines who are fighting for the final push for fallujah. Certainly many of them wont survive.

[turms 0]

Regardless of how you feel about the war, I think we should all take a few minutes to pray for those Marines who are fighting for the final push for fallujah.  Certainly many of them wont survive.

If you want to pray, pray for the civilians that are going to die there becouse the attack of the marines.

[python3 0]

i agree whole heartedly turms. Shame so many have to die for nothing. somewhere around 600 died in the last assault and more will probably die in the coming days and weeks. Sorry, but i will most certainly not pray for the agressors in this conflict, only to the ones who have and will suffer for no reason.

[IceFire 0]

Regardless of how you feel about the war, I think we should all take a few minutes to pray for those Marines who are fighting for the final push for fallujah. Certainly many of them wont survive.

If you want to pray, pray for the civilians that are going to die there becouse the attack of the marines.

If you want to pray for them, that's fine.

But it is more important at this crucial time to support our Marines.

Many of them wont be coming home. Pray that they succeed in taking fallujah and that we kill as many of the terrorists that we can there. It is the Marines that are willing to self-sacrifice for the good of our country and to defeat evil.

[EiZei 0]

Why bother praying for the civilians if you are a christian, according to the doctrine they will be sent to hell anyways so it won't matter.

[Norris 0]

Regardless of how you feel about the war, I think we should all take a few minutes to pray for those Marines who are fighting for the final push for fallujah. Certainly many of them wont survive.

If you want to pray, pray for the civilians that are going to die there becouse the attack of the marines.

If you want to pray for them, that's fine.

But it is more important at this crucial time to support our Marines.

Many of them wont be coming home. Pray that they succeed in taking fallujah and that we kill as many of the terrorists that we can there. It is the Marines that are willing to self-sacrifice for the good of our country and to defeat evil.

Praying for invaders, that's a good one! They should leave Falluja alone, or face the consequences.

[IceFire 0]

Norris, are you a terrorist or terrorist supporter??

You say we should leave fallujah alone, and then your avatar and sig picture glorifies the taliban.

[Norris 0]

Norris, are you a terrorist or terrorist supporter??

You say we should leave fallujah alone, and then your avatar and sig picture glorifies the taliban.

Actually that's none of your business. But I support the iraqi resistance 110% if that's what you're asking. And naming them 'terrorists' is just a sign of ignorance. What the invaders are doing in Falluja is nothing short of what nazis were doing all over Europe in WW2. And you dare calling the rebels 'terrorists'??

Nevertheless, Falluja will never be captured. It may be destroyed and its occupants killed, but the people protecting the city will never surrender.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]And naming them 'terrorists' is just a sign of ignorance. What the invaders are doing in Falluja is nothing short of what nazis were doing all over Europe in WW2.

I think you just showed a sign of ignorance by comparing what the nazis did in Europe to the coalition in Iraq.

[sanctuary 19]

Regardless of how you feel about the war, I think we should all take a few minutes to pray for those Marines who are fighting for the final push for fallujah.  Certainly many of them wont survive.

If you want to pray, pray for the civilians that are going to die there becouse the attack of the marines.

If you want to pray for them, that's fine.

But it is more important at this crucial time to support our Marines.

Many of them wont be coming home. Pray that they succeed in taking fallujah and that we kill as many of the terrorists that we can there.  It is the Marines that are willing to self-sacrifice for the good of our country and to defeat evil.

what !

Civilians are just innocent people, they have nothing to do with the armed guys that are fighting in both side, all they want is to live.

How can it be more important to pray for people with weapons , from whatever side, that are not caring about those civilians ?

[Norris 0]

Quote[/b] ]And naming them 'terrorists' is just a sign of ignorance. What the invaders are doing in Falluja is nothing short of what nazis were doing all over Europe in WW2.

I think you just showed a sign of ignorance by comparing what the nazis did in Europe to the coalition in Iraq.

Is it? They were bombing cities (with civilians) to shreds. And lamericans are doing the same in Iraq, as their soldiers are too afraid of close combat with far more motivated enemy.

[ralphwiggum 6]

norris. no flaming is allowed here.

[Norris 0]

norris. no flaming is allowed here.

? Sorry, where did you see any flaming?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Is it? They were bombing cities (with civilians) to shreds. And lamericans are doing the same in Iraq, as their soldiers are too afraid of close combat with far more motivated enemy.

in other words you are just calling US military as bunch of civilian killing trigger happy thugs, which is not true. furthermore, your claim of US troops being afraid is not substantiated and is no better than some uneducated redneck claiming that 'US military is the most lethal force in the world'

second, any further discussion about this matter can be done via PM unless you can stay on topic of the thread.

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/07/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]

Iraqi commandos seize Falluja hospital

Allawi declares state of emergency before expected assault

Sunday, November 7, 2004 Posted: 7:08 PM EST (0008 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The seizure of the main hospital in Falluja by Iraqi special forces marks the start of the planned offensive to retake the city, Pentagon officials said Sunday, but it remained unclear when the main assault into the city would begin.

The hospital -- on the western edge of the city -- was taken by the 36th Iraqi Commando Battalion without firing a shot, except for an accidental discharge of a weapon, according to a U.S. pool reporter.

Pentagon officials -- speaking on condition of anonymity -- said taking the hospital was one of the initial objectives of the planned offensive, but they would not say whether U.S. and Iraqi forces would push into the city in the coming hours.

U.S. military officials said the hospital needed to be secured so that workers there could attend to casualties without facing intimidation by insurgents, and to end its use as a source of anti-U.S. propaganda.

In the past, hospital officials had said U.S. airstrikes killed only innocent civilians, a claim that the U.S. military disputed.

Iraqi and U.S. forces are trying to stabilize the nation in advance of national elections, set for January.

Earlier Sunday, Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi declared a 60-day state of emergency.

"The council of ministers has approved this, the presidency has approved it," Allawi said of the state of emergency. "We declared it today, and we are going to implement it whenever is necessary and wherever is necessary."

The interim prime minister cautioned that Iraqi and U.S. forces "are not going to be easy" with suspected terrorists and insurgents.

"We are going to bring them to justice, and we are going to ensure the safety of the people of Iraq," he said.

Kurdish-ruled areas in northern Iraq are exempt from the state of emergency, Allawi spokesman Thaer Naqib said.

Allawi said time is up for the insurgents in Falluja.

"We can't wait indefinitely," he said. "We have made our case very clear. We are ready to intervene as far as we can to salvage the people who have been taken hostage by the bunch of terrorists and bandits and insurgents who have been part of the old regime ... and were involved in atrocities when [former Iraqi leader] Saddam [Hussein] was around."

Falluja has been the target of daily artillery and air attacks as Marines and Iraqi forces prepare for their expected assault on the city.

Fleeing residents have pared Falluja's normal population of about 250,000 down to about 50,000 people.

And Marines said they believe there are about 3,000 hard-core insurgents remaining in the Sunni Muslim city.

U.S. warplanes, including powerful AC-130 gunships, have bombarded insurgent targets in recent days ahead of the offensive. Several explosions jolted the region early Saturday, with fireballs lighting up the nighttime sky and the sound of AC-130 cannon fire rattling the area. (Full story)

U.S. tanks were also engaged in the northeastern part of Falluja, and artillery was fired at insurgent positions. Machine gun and small-arms fire could be heard as well.

"We're going to start at one end of the city, and we're not going to stop until we get to the other," said Lt. Col. Pete Newell, a battalion commander from the U.S. Army's 1st Infantry Division. "If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."

Marines attacked Falluja in April after four U.S. private security contractors were killed and mutilated. The ensuing battles led to many deaths. The U.S.-led forces established an indigenous Falluja brigade to restore peace to the city, but in the summer, the brigade fell apart and insurgents solidified control there.

The city, which is known as the City of Mosques because of the scores of places of worship, will provide dangerous terrain for the thousands of U.S. and Iraqi troops, who expect a textbook urban warfare scenario.

Marines hope to surprise insurgents with speed -- using infantry, tanks and attack helicopters.

Meanwhile, a captain in the Iraqi army deserted his unit Friday after hearing about plans for the Falluja assault, a U.S. military spokesman said Sunday.

Because the captain only received a "very low-level briefing," the U.S. military was not worried that his desertion posed a security threat, said the spokesman, U.S. Army Capt. Steve Alvarez.

It is believed the captain, a Kurdish company commander from the 5th Battalion of the Iraqi forces, returned home to northern Iraq, Alvarez said.

Those Iraqis must be the ones trained by the SF guys.

[Acecombat 0]

Regardless of how you feel about the war, I think we should all take a few minutes to pray for those Marines who are fighting for the final push for fallujah.  Certainly many of them wont survive.

If you want to pray, pray for the civilians that are going to die there becouse the attack of the marines.

If you want to pray for them, that's fine.

But it is more important at this crucial time to support our Marines.

Many of them wont be coming home. Pray that they succeed in taking fallujah and that we kill as many of the terrorists that we can there.  It is the Marines that are willing to self-sacrifice for the good of our country and to defeat evil.

Ah yes praying for Marines is very important infact its of paramount importance , more important then those people who first lived in fear of a dictator now they live in fear of being bombed by either USAF (precision bombing at best ) or get caught in a war between resistance and US. Who gives a shit about them right? As long as we save one and as a result 4 die ... the iraqis must truly lurve you folksss...

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]And naming them 'terrorists' is just a sign of ignorance. What the invaders are doing in Falluja is nothing short of what nazis were doing all over Europe in WW2.

I think you just showed a sign of ignorance by comparing what the nazis did in Europe to the coalition in Iraq.

I think it is a fair comparison if TBA and others continue to have to compare this conflict to WW2 and Saddam to Hitler.

[feersum.endjinn 6]

edit: Ok, I guess I'll have to clarify this somewhat, not starting a war in first place is not a valid answer this time

Since everyone seems to have an strong opinions here, I'll pose a question: aliens have kidnapped the Bush administration and in emergency global world population has now elected *you* as US President - what would you do regarding Fallujah if you were the president now?

Obviously, leaving Fallujah as it is currently isn't an option for following reasons:

- Insurgents residing there prevent elections being held, and would like future government to be either dictatorship headed by Sunni strongman or Taliban-style fundamentalistic state, as representatives of Fallujah resistance have stated publicly. Which side is stronger, is subject to debate but obviously they do not want democracy, due to Sunnis being minority and probably losing their traditionally held power.

- Main highway to Syria and Jordan goes through Fallujah: even if Fallujah is contained it hampers reconstruction throughout northern Iraq.

- Resistance also adds to general lawnessness in nearby region, good examples being robbing of cargo, kidnapping of truck drivers and bandits extorting road tolls.

- Even local residents want insurgents gone. Iraqi security forces are in no shape to secure Fallujah, so whatever is done, must be done by coalition forces.

- Negotiation with unsurgents has been tried, but so far their demands are pretty much impossible to comply with and negotiations have broken down.

So, something must be done - if you were the president right now, what would you do next?