Korea... next?

[IceFire 0]

This is not a religious debate. I don't even know how it got turned into one.

Christianity is not going into the ME trying to kill all the non believers.

We are a nation trying to get rid of terrorism and make the western world a safer place.

This is not some religious "crusade".

You people need a dose of reality.

[walker 0]

Hi IceFire

Can you tell me do you believe we are decended from apes?

Do you accept Darwinism?

Kind Regards Walker

[ran 0]

I could give you numerous examples of christianity, and christians (even 'Jesus') condoning murder (torture, slavery, intolerance etc too) - but that isn't what this thread is about. If you can't be bothered reading your own book, don't complain about what you don't know is in there. Your ignorance of your own religion is very amusing. If you want to discuss what is, or what you think isn't, in the book, do it on another forum or another thread here, or PM someone (me probably.) This is not the thread for it.

It's not amusing, it's alarming. The more thick headed human beings swallowing extremist crap, the earlier our world will implode.

[denoir 0]

This is completely untrue and dangerous thing to say.  I am not going to preach about the vitrues of christianity(besides your relationship with christ with the added benefit not going to hell) because that would be a waste of time here.

And what exactly makes you such an expert on Islamic teachings? Is it from the statements of Osama bin Laden? Do you think that one would get a correct picture of Christianity from those that bomb abortion clinics or from various Christian sect leaders?

Sure, Bin Laden's fundamentalism is more extreme than Bush's (although about just as extreme as yours) - the difference being that Bush has more resources and more followers. Bottom line, I'd most certainly say that the Christian fundamentalism is a greater threat to world peace than Islamic fundamentalism. The latter is a problem as well, but since they have less resources, they are less capable of making substantial damage.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Walker, please don't encourage him.

And I take exception to describing Darwinism as something that can be 'accepted' - its a fact, not a religious tenant.

[ran 0]

We are a nation trying to get rid of terrorism and make the western world a safer place.

And you're doing a shitty job, throwing your might around like a fat assed bully using the wrong methods in the wrong places creating even more enemies when you try infact to reduce their number.

YOU get a dose of reality. As already pointed out hundreds of times here, the world isn't just black and white, there are as many shades of grey as there are human beings

[IceFire 0]

Hi IceFire

Can you tell me do you belive we are decended from apes?

Do you accept Darwinism?

Kind Regards Walker

Like I said, this is not a religious debate.

I know what the bible teaches, anyone can take texts from the bible to make it look violent, easy. Fine, you want to believe the christian religion is bad, then that's your decision if you can't see the forest for the trees.

This is not about christianity anyways.

Christianity has nothing to do with the war on terrrorism. You are grasping at straws. Christian fundementalism, give me a break.

There are missionaries in the ME right now trying to help and educate the poor people there. So don't go on about the "evil christian crusaders".

[red oct 2]

IceFire, Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX is a atheist, he explained that already. that means he doens't follow or believe in any religion. and he isn't comparing the two religions, he's comparing how you behave similar to them. the same crap you talk about is exactly the same kind of rhetoric they rant on about just about every day of the week. are you now getting the picture? now hows about you edit your comment before you get banned.

[denoir 0]

This is not some religious "crusade".

You people need a dose of reality.

Really? You're the one stating it as a war between religions. That the Middle East needs to be liberated from the.. how did you put it.. "stranglehold of Islam". Sounds like a crusade to me. Or "Jihad" if you prefer that term.

Any intelligent person, even the administration will tell you the main reason we went to war was because we needed to cause dramatic political and social change and reform in the Middle East region.  We went in to break the hold of islamic culture on the Arab states there and eliminate the stranglehold that the muslem religion has on the people there.

This is why we are trying to build western style democracy there and eliminate the fundementalist culture that is so dominant over there.

Because the liberal idiots would never go to war because of their stupid politically correct ideas would be against a war about the defundementalism and deislamification of the middle east.

They are not willing to do what it takes in that manner to fight islamic terrorism and the islamic stranglehold in that part of the world.

Eliminating a toxic aspect of a peoples culture is not.  Especially when those cultural and religious aspects are turning poor middle easterners into raging violent fanatics.

You ask what aspect of the culture and islam in the ME is threatening to Americans?

Does Sept 11 ring a bell?  Clear proof of the danger they pose.

The fact that there are thousands of islamic fanatics there who will do anything in their power to kill the greatest number of Americans.  They are 100% resolute in their commitment to terrorism and murder.  They are willing to kill American women, children, even babies for allah.

...

Islamic terrorism is a cancer there and their whole society needs a complete cultural reform.

They hate us because they are hate western influences.  Islam detests any form of westernism.  They hate us because we are "infidels" to islam.

Our anger is a result of being attacked for religious reasons.

Their hatred is a result of islamification and antiwesternism

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam.  Don't waste your breath.

Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem.  It is a violent and jealous religion.  

Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth.  We defend ourselves when we must.  We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children.

Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam.  

It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right.

That's all I am going to go on about that.  I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

[IceFire 0]

IceFire, Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX is a atheist, he explained that already. that means he doens't follow or believe in any religion. and he isn't comparing the two religions, he's comparing how you behave similar to them. the same crap you talk about is exactly the same kind of rhetoric they rant on about just about every day of the week. are you now getting the picture? now hows about you edit your comment before you get banned.

That's just the thing. Until the past few posts I havn't even included christianity into the debate. You all put it in trying to compare it to islam.

I am saying this is not a christian war. It is a war about the US defending it's people. It is not a religious crusade to us.

That is the difference. To the terrorists, it is a religious war or "holy war".

[IceFire 0]

This is not some religious "crusade".

You people need a dose of reality.

Really? You're the one stating it as a war between religions. That the Middle East needs to be liberated from the.. how did you put it.. "stranglehold of Islam". Sounds like a crusade to me. Or "Jihad" if you prefer that term.

Any intelligent person, even the administration will tell you the main reason we went to war was because we needed to cause dramatic political and social change and reform in the Middle East region.  We went in to break the hold of islamic culture on the Arab states there and eliminate the stranglehold that the muslem religion has on the people there.

This is why we are trying to build western style democracy there and eliminate the fundementalist culture that is so dominant over there.

Because the liberal idiots would never go to war because of their stupid politically correct ideas would be against a war about the defundementalism and deislamification of the middle east.

They are not willing to do what it takes in that manner to fight islamic terrorism and the islamic stranglehold in that part of the world.

Eliminating a toxic aspect of a peoples culture is not.  Especially when those cultural and religious aspects are turning poor middle easterners into raging violent fanatics.

You ask what aspect of the culture and islam in the ME is threatening to Americans?

Does Sept 11 ring a bell?  Clear proof of the danger they pose.

The fact that there are thousands of islamic fanatics there who will do anything in their power to kill the greatest number of Americans.  They are 100% resolute in their commitment to terrorism and murder.  They are willing to kill American women, children, even babies for allah.

...

Islamic terrorism is a cancer there and their whole society needs a complete cultural reform.

They hate us because they are hate western influences.  Islam detests any form of westernism.  They hate us because we are "infidels" to islam.

Our anger is a result of being attacked for religious reasons.

Their hatred is a result of islamification and antiwesternism

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam.  Don't waste your breath.

Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem.  It is a violent and jealous religion.  

Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth.  We defend ourselves when we must.  We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children.

Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam.  

It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right.

That's all I am going to go on about that.  I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

Yes because over there islamic fanatisism is creating terrorists for a holy war out to kill Americans.

That is why I consider it toxic. The important thing is the end result, dead americans.

I couln't care less about islam, its just when they start murdering americans that it bothers us.

[walker 0]

Hi IceFire

I dont believe Christianity is bad

I dont believe Islam is bad

I dont believe Hinduism is bad

I dont believe Bhudism is bad

Same as I dont believe a spec of sand is bad.

It is some words in a book a system of beliefs codified on paper for those who can not make up their own minds about what is right or wrong so the need a manual. Mao Tse Tong wrote one as did Karl Marx, Michael Bakunin, and thousands of other ploticos, philosophers, snake oil sales men and any bone rattler, tub thumper, and bead shaker.

Most of them say more or less the same some include threats some dont.

I say read what you want believe what you want but I aint you.

Kind Regards Walker

[red oct 2]

man where did you get such a radical fundamentalist prespective. there are alot of churches in my area, and (as far as i know) none of them is as extreme as your ramblings.

[IceFire 0]

man where did you get such a radical fundamentalist prespective. there are alot of churches in my area, and (as far as i know) not as extreme as your ramblings.

As I have already stated, my beliefs on this issue regarding the ME and terrorism is not a stem of my religious beliefs.

This is a belief that stems from my sense of protection my country from terrorists who want to kill as many americans as they can.  

These are seperate principles.  Don't just say this is a religiously motivated war.  It may be for the terrorists, but it is not for us Americans.  We are motivated by the desire to prevent futire Sept 11's, and ensuring the safety of the country and the Americans who dwell within it.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Hi Icefire

I think anyone who cannot think for themselves and who requires to be told what to believe and blindly follow - like a sheep - is both stupid and dangerous. I think those who follow several thousand year old myths about war gods demanding sacrifices for them are likely to do bad things.

I think all theistic religions are inherently bad for humanity, as they discourage rational thought and encourage intolerance, violence and hatred.

[denoir 0]

man where did you get such a radical fundamentalist prespective. there are alot of churches in my area, and (as far as i know) not as extreme as your ramblings.

As I have already stated, my beliefs on this issue regarding the ME and terrorism is not a stem of my religious beliefs.

This is a belief that stems from my sense of protection my country from terrorists who want to kill as many americans as they can.  

These are seperate principles.  Don't just say this is a religiously motivated war.  It may be for the terrorists, but it is not for us Americans.  We are motivated by the desire to prevent futire Sept 11's, and ensuring the safety of the country and the Americans who dwell within it.

But it is. Most certainly a majority of Americans do not share your view that it is Islam that you are fighting and that Islam is a 'toxic' element of the ME cultures. Neither would most christians. The fundamentalist christians would - and that's the group you belong to.

Out of interest, what is your opinion on the million of good law-abiding muslim Americans? Or what about the thousands of muslim US soldiers that are serving in Iraq?

That Islam is a 'evil' and 'jealous' religion is not the American point of view. It is your, fundamentalist christian point of view.

[red oct 2]

Quote[/b] ]As I have already stated, my beliefs on this issue regarding the ME and terrorism is not a stem of my religious beliefs.

This is a belief that stems from my sense of protection my country from terrorists who want to kill as many americans as they can.

These are seperate principles. Don't just say this is a religiously motivated war. It may be for the terrorists, but it is not for us Americans. We are motivated by the desire to prevent futire Sept 11's, and ensuring the safety of the country and the Americans who dwell within it.

you gota flaw there IceFire, how does attacking a country which is run by a dictator that good old bush has some stupid vendetta against protect us? in case you haven't noticed are soldiers are getting killed. so are you saying you would rather trade 1 soldier in exchange for 1 civilian? doesn't make much sense to me. while we waist time in Iraq, Iran is building their own nuclear weapons and terrorists still get money from countries like Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordian, and Syria. doesn't seem to effective to me.

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]As I have already stated, my beliefs on this issue regarding the ME and terrorism is not a stem of my religious beliefs.

This is a belief that stems from my sense of protection my country from terrorists who want to kill as many americans as they can.

These are seperate principles. Don't just say this is a religiously motivated war. It may be for the terrorists, but it is not for us Americans. We are motivated by the desire to prevent futire Sept 11's, and ensuring the safety of the country and the Americans who dwell within it.

you gota flaw there IceFire, how does attacking a country which is run by a dictator that good old bush has some stupid vendetta against protect us? in case you haven't noticed are soldiers are getting killed. so are you saying you would rather trade 1 soldier in exchange for 1 civilian? doesn't make much sense to me. while we waist time in Iraq, Iran is building their own nuclear weapons and terrorists still get money from countries like Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordian, and Syria. doesn't seem to effective to me.

Especially when this Leader is reputed in the ME for secular values (at a certain time at leats) if it's awar to clean the Middle East from Islamic influence (tough job there, boy) ?

[red oct 2]

exactly, i was just about to say that.according to your logic IceFire, that would make Saddam a bang up fellow cleaning up the "toxic" mess in his country. under his rule pretty much nobody was aloud to practice Islam. you aware of that little detail right? if the plan was to remove Islam, than that was a pretty stupid move since Saddam was the best ally for the job.

[IceFire 0]

man where did you get such a radical fundamentalist prespective. there are alot of churches in my area, and (as far as i know) not as extreme as your ramblings.

As I have already stated, my beliefs on this issue regarding the ME and terrorism is not a stem of my religious beliefs.

This is a belief that stems from my sense of protection my country from terrorists who want to kill as many americans as they can.  

These are seperate principles.  Don't just say this is a religiously motivated war.  It may be for the terrorists, but it is not for us Americans.  We are motivated by the desire to prevent futire Sept 11's, and ensuring the safety of the country and the Americans who dwell within it.

But it is. Most certainly a majority of Americans do not share your view that it is Islam that you are fighting and that Islam is a 'toxic' element of the ME cultures. Neither would most christians. The fundamentalist christians would - and that's the group you belong to.

Out of interest, what is your opinion on the million of good law-abiding muslim Americans? Or what about the thousands of muslim US soldiers that are serving in Iraq?

That Islam is a 'evil' and 'jealous' religion is not the American point of view. It is your, fundamentalist christian point of view.

I don't really have much of an opinion regarding the muslims living here in the US.

Although not alot of them have done alot of good in the war on terrorism.

The muslim communities have been less than helpful in reporting suspiciious or suspected characters to the authorities, or they were funneling money to terrorist organisations. And there is some anti-US sentiment among them. Most of them moved here just to study and then leave, or they are escaping something, and they don't really care about US values.

As for the military, I have respect for anyone who serves, but I havn't read that much about the muslims in the military because they are a very small minority there.

You still have been reports of some muslims in the military being against the US, or like that muslim guy who attacked his fellow soldiers by tossing grenades into tents. He said he did it for his religion and because he was opposed to the war.

Regardless, I don't have any problem with any American as long as they are not anti-US, or support terrorism.

[IceFire 0]

And those of you who are asking how attacking a secular state like Iraq has anything to do with fighting islam, I already answered that in one of my beginning posts a few pages ago.

Start reading from page 7.

[ralphwiggum 6]

ok i guess i need to hand out some bans.