Korea... next?

[IceFire 0]

Akira, just as Denoir said, cultural traits are manmade, they have nothing to do with a race.

You defined racism as attacking a cultural attribute.  This is wrong. I feel bad that little children in the middle east are subjected to the dominant cultural influences that will one day make them violent raging fanatics.

They were not born with this cultural attribute, they learn it in their society.

As I stated in my post, racism can be about more than whether they are black or white, and your fanatical hatred of Middle Eastern culture fits that perfectly.

Whether you want to believe it or not, you are racist. For example,

Quote[/b] ]subjected to the dominant cultural influences that will one day make them violent raging fanatics.

your assertion that every Middle Eastern child is going to grow up as "violent raging fanatics"is clear racism. Your belief that American culture is in someway superior to all the cultures in the Middle East, is equally racist.

Quote[/b] ]And now they are legitimate threats to American lives.

Really? What about the Iraqi culture was directly threatening you?

Quote[/b] ]I am NOT a racist.  I simply believe in right and wrong and the country.

I'm sure Hitler felt the exact same way.

You don't think there is a problem in the Middle East then?

You ask what aspect of the culture and islam in the ME is threatening to Americans?

Does Sept 11 ring a bell?  Clear proof of the danger they pose.

The fact that there are thousands of islamic fanatics there who will do anything in their power to kill the greatest number of Americans.  They are 100% resolute in their commitment to terrorism and murder.  They are willing to kill American women, children, even babies for allah.

This is not a problem to you?

The reasons I stated above are the whole point of why we are going in there to change their political structure and society.

Islamic terrorism is a cancer there and their whole society needs a complete cultural reform.

This is not racism. This is fixing a very serious problem that is a real danger to my country and it's people.

[red oct 2]

wasn't this about Korea? this debate over culture, religion who's right and who's wrong is becoming pretty pathetic.

[denoir 0]

You don't think there is a problem in the Middle East then?

There is a problem in the Islamic-Western reltationship. That problem does not come from the cultures, but from people like you and Al Qaeda supporters.

Quote[/b] ]

The fact that there are thousands of islamic fanatics there who will do anything in their power to kill the greatest number of Americans. They are 100% resolute in their commitment to terrorism and murder. They are willing to kill American women, children, even babies for allah.

Yeah, thousands out of hundreds of millions normal peaceful citizens who wish you no harm. There is a smaller percentage of Islamic terrorists in the muslim population than for example the percentage that the soldiers that abused the prisoners in Iraq are of the US military. Does it mean that sexually abusing, beating and killing prisoners is a part of the American culture?

[IceFire 0]

wasn't this about Korea? this debate over culture, religion who's right and who's wrong is becoming pretty pathetic.

This thread was created slightly as a way to mock Bush's policy of attacking Iraq but not N.Korea.

It's comparitave in saying that we are not going to attack NKorea who has WMD, but we are willing to do so in Iraq who supposedly "has none".

I am giving the explanation.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I think IceFire has a point. Religion, traditions and culture are not traits you are born with. There are elements that you from some perspective can call 'toxic' or destructive or undesirable. The problem is in the "perspective" part. Just like Christian fundamentalists like IceFire can say that Islam is 'toxic', Islamic fundamentalists can say that Christianity is 'toxic'. A hardcore atheist would say that both are undesirable and that religion should be forbidden altogether.

I wouldn't call discriminating against a particular religion racist.... but it is discrimination.

By the way, I'm a hardcore atheist, and I'd never call for religion to be forbidden- and I don't know any freethinkers that would. WHile it is evil, bad for humanity, and worth being rid of, 'forbidding' things doesn't work.

Quote[/b] ]

The mature and reasonable approach (incidentally the guiding principle in democracies) is that there is no absolute perspective and that there are different points of views that have equal values and should be respected as such.

Unfortunately, that is the type of garbage that gives rise to cultural relativism and other nonsense. It is simply not true that 'truth' is subjective. The plane either crashed or it did not. People have their own interpretations of events; but the events themselves are digital and discrete; they happen or they don't. Yes, of course we may lack knowledge about some of them, but that does not change this fact.

[IceFire 0]

You don't think there is a problem in the Middle East then?

There is a problem in the Islamic-Western reltationship. That problem does not come from the cultures, but from people like you and Al Qaeda supporters.

Quote[/b] ]

The fact that there are thousands of islamic fanatics there who will do anything in their power to kill the greatest number of Americans.  They are 100% resolute in their commitment to terrorism and murder.  They are willing to kill American women, children, even babies for allah.

Yeah, thousands out of hundreds of millions normal peaceful citizens who wish you no harm. There is a smaller percentage of Islamic terrorists in the muslim population than for example the percentage that the soldiers that abused the prisoners in Iraq are of the US military. Does it mean that sexually abusing, beating and killing prisoners is a part of the American culture?

While the number of terrorists are not as high as you would like, it is enough to cause 3,000 dead Americans in New York.

Also, while everyone may not be a terrorist in the ME, many people do support the terrorists and hate the US.

That itself is a serious social problem.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

You don't think there is a problem in America then?

You ask what aspect of the culture and Christianity in America is threatening to the rest of the world?

Does the thousands of innocents killed in retaliatory strikes in Afghanistan and Iraq ring a bell? Clear proof of the danger they pose.

The fact that there are thousands of American/ Christian fanatics there who will do anything in their power to kill the greatest number of Muslims. They are 100% resolute in their commitment to terrorism and murder. They are willing to kill women, children, even babies for revenge for '9/11'.

This is not a problem to you?

The reasons I stated above are the whole point of why we are going in there to change their political structure and society.

American empire-building is a cancer there and their whole society needs a complete cultural reform.

This is not racism. This is fixing a very serious problem that is a real danger to my country and it's people.

Mirror mirror on the wall

[IceFire 0]

Baron, don't edit my quotes like that.

If you want to make a point, copy, paste and edit it.  

But don't make it look like a quote from me.  

Regardless, we attacked in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept 11.

We are eliminating the terrorist threat. We do not going around intentionally killing civilians.

If you can't discriminate between our actions and theirs, then that is like not being able to discriminate between the police going after a murderer.

[denoir 0]

While the number of terrorists are not as high as you would like, it is enough to cause 3,000 dead Americans in New York.

Considerably less than the number of dead Iraqi civilians killed by US bombs.

Quote[/b] ]

Also, while everyone may not be a terrorist in the ME, many people do support the terrorists and hate the US.

Yepp, and 80% something of the American public supported the bombing of Iraq.

Quote[/b] ]That itself is a serious social problem.

I agree. The problem is in the fundamentalists on both sides. When the shit hits the fan, they get plenty of followers.

Do you see however that there is very little difference in principle between you, who support war on Islam because you consider the Islamic culture to be undesirable and an AQ follower who supports war on America because he considers western culture undesirable?

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Baron, don't edit my quotes like that.

If you want to make a point, copy, paste and edit it.

But don't make it look like a quote from me.

Regardless, we attacked in response to the Imperialist actions of the Great Satan, who is against the wishes of Allah.

We are eliminating the Infidels. We do not going around intentionally killing civilians. Our actions are according to the will of Allah!

If you can't discriminate between our actions and theirs, then that is like not being able to discriminate between the police going after a murderer.

sat·ire

n.

1.

1. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.

2. The branch of literature constituting such works. See Synonyms at caricature.

2. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.

[red oct 2]

wasn't this about Korea? this debate over culture, religion who's right and who's wrong is becoming pretty pathetic.

This thread was created slightly as a way to mock Bush's policy of attacking Iraq but not N.Korea.

It's comparitave in saying that we are not going to attack NKorea who has WMD, but we are willing to do so in Iraq who supposedly "has none".

I am giving the explanation.

what do you expect? maybe if the Yellow Rose of Texas himself wasn't such a stupid ass, maybe so many wouldn't be so quick to mock him. if Iraq did have the ability to make illeagle weapons, than why is it that locations that were most likely to be holding such weapons were givin second priority to the Oil fields? why haven't we found them now?

[IceFire 0]

While the number of terrorists are not as high as you would like, it is enough to cause 3,000 dead Americans in New York.

Considerably less than the number of dead Iraqi civilians killed by US bombs.

Quote[/b] ]

Also, while everyone may not be a terrorist in the ME, many people do support the terrorists and hate the US.

Yepp, and 80% something of the American public supported the bombing of Iraq.

Quote[/b] ]That itself is a serious social problem.

I agree. The problem is in the fundamentalists on both sides. When the shit hits the fan, they get plenty of followers.

Do you see however that there is very little difference in principle between you, who support war on Islam because you consider the Islamic culture to be undesirable and an AQ follower who supports war on America because he considers western culture undesirable?

We are angry at the terrorists for killing Americans, they kill children, women and babies and killed 3000 americans FOR ALLAH.

They hate us because they are hate western influences. Islam detests any form of westernism. They hate us because we are "infidels" to islam.

Our anger is a result of being attacked for religious reasons.

Their hatred is a result of islamification and antiwesternism.

Sure, their are strong feelings on both sides. But the reasons behind them are what justifies them.

We attacked them in order to kill the terrorists, not children. The reason we kill terrorists is because we know they are planning to commit acts of terrorism in the west.

[Akira 0]

what do you expect? maybe if the Yellow Rose of Texas himself wasn't such a stupid ass, maybe so many wouldn't be so quick to mock him.

I about choked to death laughing at that...

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

We are angry at the American Satans for killing our people, they kill children, women and babies and killed millions of Iraqis for what Terrorists from ANOTHER COUNTRY that had nothing to do with Iraq, and for what our hated dictator did.

They hate us because they are hate Islam. The great Satan detests any form of teachings of Mohammed (pbuh). They hate us because we are the true followers of Allah.

Our anger is a result of being attacked for religious reasons.

Their hatred is a result of Christianity and antiIslam teachings, by the great Satan.

Sure, their are strong feelings on both sides. But the reasons behind them are what justifies them.

We attacked them in order to kill the infidels, not children. The reason we kill the infidels is because we know they are planning to commit acts of heresy and sin in our lands.

You just don't get it, do you?

car·i·ca·ture

n.

1.

1. A representation, especially pictorial or literary, in which the subject's distinctive features or peculiarities are deliberately exaggerated to produce a comic or grotesque effect.

2. The art of creating such representations.

2. A grotesque imitation or misrepresentation: The trial was a caricature of justice.

tr.v. car·i·ca·tured, car·i·ca·tur·ing, car·i·ca·tures

To represent or imitate in an exaggerated, distorted manner.

[IceFire 0]

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam. Don't waste your breath.

Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem. It is a violent and jealous religion.

Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth. We defend ourselves when we must. We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children.

Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam.

It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right.

That's all I am going to go on about that. I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

[red oct 2]

oh boy somebodies gona get banned.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam. Don't waste your breath.

Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem. It is a violent and jealous religion.

Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth. We defend ourselves when we must. We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children.

Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam.

It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right.

That's all I am going to go on about that. I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

This is almost the single most misguided thing I have ever read.

Christianity has as many, if not more, passages condoning violence, hatred, ignorance and intolerance than Islam. That is all that needs said on the subject. If you want to debate that, Find another forum or thread to do it in. (or PM me.) Or, heavens forbid, read the bible.

[IceFire 0]

We are angry at the American Satans for killing our people, they kill children, women and babies and killed millions of Iraqis for what Terrorists from ANOTHER COUNTRY that had nothing to do with Iraq, and for what our hated dictator did.

They hate us because they are hate Islam.  The great Satan detests any form of teachings of Mohammed (pbuh).  They hate us because we are the true followers of Allah.

Our anger is a result of being attacked for religious reasons.

Their hatred is a result of Christianity and antiIslam teachings, by the great Satan.

Sure, their are strong feelings on both sides.  But the reasons behind them are what justifies them.

We attacked them in order to kill the infidels, not children.  The reason we kill the infidels is because we know they are planning to commit acts of heresy and sin in our lands.

You just don't get it, do you?

car·i·ca·ture  

n.

  1.

        1. A representation, especially pictorial or literary, in which the subject's distinctive features or peculiarities are deliberately exaggerated to produce a comic or grotesque effect.

        2. The art of creating such representations.

  2. A grotesque imitation or misrepresentation: The trial was a caricature of justice.

tr.v. car·i·ca·tured, car·i·ca·tur·ing, car·i·ca·tures

   To represent or imitate in an exaggerated, distorted manner.

See it may be satire and fun and witty to you, but it is not accurate.

You can't just create the inverse of something and say "well that is the opposite perspective".

Both sides, good and evil are completely different.

You are trying to draw parallels where there are none.

[denoir 0]

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam.  Don't waste your breath.

Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem.  It is a violent and jealous religion.  

Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth.  We defend ourselves when we must.  We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children.

Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam.  

It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right.

That's all I am going to go on about that.  I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

Your blindness is quite amusing. Do a switch of Christianity and Islam in your post and you'll get something that looks very much like an Al Qaeda press release.

You are really no different than an AQ supporter. It's fundamentalism on both sides.

Christianity and Islam are very similar. Judaism-Christianity-Islam - the so called "book religions" have the same basic fundamental beliefs and the same code of moral conduct.

[IceFire 0]

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam.  Don't waste your breath.

Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem.  It is a violent and jealous religion.  

Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth.  We defend ourselves when we must.  We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children.

Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam.  

It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right.

That's all I am going to go on about that.  I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

This is the single most stupid thing I have ever read.

Christianity has as many, if not more, passages condoning violence, hatred, ignorance and intolerance than Islam.  That is all that needs said on the subject.  If you want to debate that, Find another forum or thread to do it in.  (or PM me.)   Or, heavens forbid, read the bible.

I don't know what version of christianity you believe, but it does not condone murder.

I don't know when the last time you have been to church, but I recommend you go pay a visit.

But then again, I don't know why I would argue with someone who thinks religion is evil.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I have always said Crusade and Jihad are interchangeable words.

Kind Regards Walker

[ran 0]

Oh, a fundamentalist Judeo-Christian ... how novel ... get a clue, read a book called the Bible, it's not all that nice and soft as the priest make it out to be...

[IceFire 0]

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam.  Don't waste your breath.

Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem.  It is a violent and jealous religion.  

Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth.  We defend ourselves when we must.  We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children.

Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam.  

It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right.

That's all I am going to go on about that.  I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

Your blindness is quite amusing. Do a switch of Christianity and Islam in your post and you'll get something that looks very much like an Al Qaeda press release.

You are really no different than an AQ supporter. It's fundamentalism on both sides.

Christianity and Islam are very similar. Judaism-Christianity-Islam - the so called "book religions" have the same basic fundamental beliefs and the same code of moral conduct.

That's a dangerous mentality that many people have developed.

Some people say that they are all different paths to the same place.

This is completely untrue and dangerous thing to say. I am not going to preach about the vitrues of christianity(besides your relationship with christ with the added benefit not going to hell) because that would be a waste of time here.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I could give you numerous examples of christianity, and christians (even 'Jesus') condoning murder (torture, slavery, intolerance etc too) - but that isn't what this thread is about. If you can't be bothered reading your own book, don't complain about what you don't know is in there. Your ignorance of your own religion is very amusing. If you want to discuss what is, or what you think isn't, in the book, do it on another forum or another thread here, or PM someone (me probably.) This is not the thread for it.

[ran 0]

This is completely untrue and dangerous thing to say. I am not going to preach about the vitrues of christianity(besides your relationship with christ with the added benefit not going to hell) because that would be a waste of time here.

Yes it would ... in any place where people show some common good sense and are able to think a bit by themselves.

We're already in "hell" son.