Drill Sergeants SWP Addon pack.

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

WAH! 12000 poly's for a weapon is insane! Don't you know that a lot of details are done by good textures rather than good models.

A truely good addon has found the right balance between modeled detail and textured detail. A completely modeled mounting rail and the crosshead in the srews are examples of details that simply shouldn't be there.

The models are good and DR most certainly has a talent for it, but he needs to learn not to over-do it. And I'm VERY curious how someone with a low-end PC can say that he has no problems at all with the high-poly count

[Drill Sergeant 0]

Please take note not EVERYONE on a a Squad carrys a M60

and that the rest of my models are around 6-8k for the

rifles.

OFPr (1.94) Stress Test

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Programs running:  OFPr (1.94) Windows Media player (Playing "God Is a DJ.mp3") Note pad

(Active web desktop enabled 1 image applied)

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System specs.

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Compaq P5000

Celron Processor

256 RAM

40mb HD

8-16 Meg video

1024x768 pixel res (desktop)

Windows ME

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OFP Specs

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Intel Celron 795 MHz

255mb ram

benchmark 1470

Direct 3d

Inteler ® 82810e Graphics controller

1024x768x16

total memory 250mb

texture heap 16mb

file heap 16mb

Geometry performance 1,466

Max lights 19

All additional lights enabled

Cockpits 1024x1024

objects  1024x1024

landscape 64x64

special effects 32x32

Auto Drop down none

max objects 256

objects LOD .005

Shadows LOD 1.0

Brightness : 1.2

Gamma Correction : 1.6

Frame rate : 10/20

Visual quality: 11/23 (Full slider to the right)

Visibility : 2,076

Terrain Detail : Very Low (doesn't even render any differently on very high for me..)

Refresh rate : 60hz

List: Everything disabled except cloudlets and blood.

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TEST

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Island: Everon

Location: Squares EJ49 (Opfor in forest) Fa50 (Marines in meadow)

Addons used : DSA SWP V3.0, E&S Marine Assault pack, JAM, Tac events

Running scripts : Tac events.

Units placed. : 24x russians (BIS). 12x Marines (Edited to all carry 1 DSA M60)

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There was a slight slowdown during initial entry to the map but that soon cleared up. I moved forward over the crest of the hill, ordered 2-5 to move 75m to my left and 6-12 to move 50m to my right. Promptly I was

shot by a russian officer when I stood up from behind a bush and discharged my M60.

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Second run. I tried playing another Mp3 slightly longer. ("Bad reputation")

Mission loaded perfectly without a slow down upon entry. I sent 2-6 to my left once again, 7-12

strait head on into the enemy. I then hid in a bush and watched/cover fire. 2 died as soon as he got 10m

from me (slight (Stutter lasted 1 sec then sped back up) slow down when russian fired grenade.

(All russians firing + me and 7-12 ) 3 died, then some one shot me again when I was in the bush.

During the cut scene bringing me to the russian who shot me looks like #5 died. : ( Still no lag.

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Third run. Another MP3 playing ("Some day")  Ordered team to advance, ordered form column Charged

strait into the russian's lines. 11 died half way there after he stopped to fire, squad got down. Set up base

of fire. 9 Died as he walked over me........ 8 got injured, sent 1-5 to charge. 7 Died, 3 bodies in view with the

M60 (no more then 10m from me) Got hit 2 times and crawled of behind a line of bushes. (Russians are

counter charging) Got hit 3 more times slight slow down (little stutter) when TAC events splattered blood

all over. Man became immobile and was hit with numerous sprays from automatic fire. Died. Viewed my entire dead squad with there m60's except 8-10 who were still alive and hiding in the bushes. : |

[Gordy 0]

One suggestion, request.

Can U make that m-14 of yours a socom version.

It has shorter barrel and an optic mount is pushed more forward.

sth like this

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/AA9626Large.jpg

[Status_cz 0]

Well,even weapons in VBS1 don´t have so big polycount,and they look very good.it´s only about textures and little bit about model.

[SNIPER_SKULL 0]

Well,even weapons in VBS1 don´t have so big polycount,and they look very good.it´s only about textures and little bit about model.

LOL no its not

its not all textures

oh and DS good job mate i tested it and no LAG

[Status_cz 0]

Well,even weapons in VBS1 don´t have so big polycount,and they look very good.it´s only about textures and little bit about model.

LOL no its not  

its not all textures  

oh and DS good job mate i tested it and no LAG  

LOL man...u think I´m an idiot?

As i know weapons in VBS1 have lowest polycount and they looks perfect...

Anyway,DS nice models,just wanna help you to better addons.

[Silent Pro 0]

Your stress test is good at showing what you have and what you were doing while using your weaponpack. However, yopu forgot one major thing...framerates.

What all games all boil down to when someone asks if a game is playable they mean "what is the framerate?" Test your weaponpack against other well known packs with lower polycounts such as earls weapons, BAS's weapons, INQ's and even BIS's to show the performance hit each type will have.

Your weapons arent even textured yet and your benchmark doesnt take into account what it will be like when they are textured. So in essence, your benchmarks will not be a reaslistic representation of performance after the final product.

OFP's biggest problem is managing lots of hi quality textures efficiently without causing other problems. That is why others keep

Poly's without textures running really only get crunched by the GPU and or CPU, and without textures that removes a major peformance hit that the computer experiences when mapping textures after loading them into memory, your benchmark does not account for those things.

Bottom line, accurate framerates should be reported if you are going to benchmark and claim that everything runs lag free.

While were at it, let it be known that anything under 30fps should be considered low framerate, as that is the most widely accepted value for full motion.

[SNIPER_SKULL 0]

Well,even weapons in VBS1 don´t have so big polycount,and they look very good.it´s only about textures and little bit about model.

LOL no its not

its not all textures

oh and DS good job mate i tested it and no LAG

LOL man...u think I´m an idiot?

As i know weapons in VBS1 have lowest polycount and they looks perfect...

Anyway,DS nice models,just wanna help you to better addons.

no i do not think you are a idiot BUT i do think your not a addon maker

if you make a crap model and good textuers its going to suck ass

BUT if you make a killer model and killer textures its going to be one helll of a addon and not a 1/2 ass job

[Status_cz 0]

Well,even weapons in VBS1 don´t have so big polycount,and they look very good.it´s only about textures and little bit about model.

LOL no its not  

its not all textures  

oh and DS good job mate i tested it and no LAG  

LOL man...u think I´m an idiot?

As i know weapons in VBS1 have lowest polycount and they looks perfect...

Anyway,DS nice models,just wanna help you to better addons.

no i do not think you are a idiot BUT i do think your not a addon maker  

if you make a crap model and good textuers its going to suck ass

BUT if you make a killer model and killer textures its going to be one helll of a addon and not a 1/2 ass job  

Hehe,Maybe you will be surprised,but I´am addonmaker (csla).

Yes,ass kicking model&textures is the best variant of addon but not anyone addons got this...

[Homefry 0]

Excellent job... here is my theory, if its not broken, don't complain. As many have said, they are not getting any lag... so I don't see a problem.

@Silent Pro, you've made some good points, but I don't get 30 fps with my MX420 but everything is fine here, the game is still smooth.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

@ Gordy, Yea good as done.

@ Sniper Skull, thanks for actually putting it to the test.

@ Status_cz, I never had a texture artist who did any work except SASR Saber who helped me do the

layouts on the SOCOM before I filtered them. You can keep mentioning textures all you want but for

me a texture artist hasn't been a reality. So fact, textures will allow you to reduce the polliecount,

without textures I got bored and deiced to take the game's engine to the max. So far witch each

3.0 (Unreleased) weapon model, you don't need to go any higher because the detail is already

represented.

MY *THEORY* on why they don't cause an extreme slow down is simply because all the pollies

are grouped together, which means the faces will be smaller, the textures are on a 2 layout sheets

so the computer doesn't have to go looking for then apply 4-5 different skins to the model.

Now for an even greater surprise, the SOCOM is "low" pollie, I believe it's still under 2,000 in the

ALPHA .5. The skins the SOCOM uses are in 2 pieces. Both skin layouts are a .jpg and 1024x1024.

The point behind the pack was no to be "Just right" and in line with everyone else's models. I wanted

models where you saw what was really there, not just a texture.

The .5 ALPHA was a simple stepping stone to the 3.0 which should explain why the m82, M14 were

not correctly done.

If there are any questions about anything else, let's hear it.

[Sgt. Stryker 0]

2 jpgs 1024x1024............ if you didnt get a profromance hit from the models you sure will from the textures. Youre work looks great but think about it, if you got 30 guys on screen (which most ofp missions have at least that) then your CPU is gonna be hurting. If you disagree then why hasnt anyone done it before? You gotta remeber that textures can do a major performance when playing any game. Just flaunting around the model wont lag, but if you but 2 or more jpgs that are 1024 pixles in size youre gonna see it.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

I think sniper skull just said he tried that, with no problem. I also use my SOCOMs on a regular

basis, (the skinned ones) without any trouble. I didn't say thats what the M60 will be using or

anything else. Do you have a copy of the SWP to experiment with?

Why hasn't it been done before? Well because most people THINK it's impossible.

Also why would 30 men have SOCOMs? Why would 30 men be in a tight group with SOCOMs?

Go ahead and bench this pack if you have it DLed. It's still going to run.

Seems to me people really gave Inquisitor a hard time using those.jpgs/CS models in OFP,

now people are telling me thats standard?  (Theres nothing wrong with it.)

I think maybe you all should also try something, removing all you user made addons. Though

it's not being used as an excuse more of an example. Without your user made addons where

would you be? Each user made addon is an advance in some way, and at one point had never

been tried before.

I'm not asking anyone to accept it as common place, I'm asking for help to get it finished. Know what? I think I'm going

to re do my paint ball gun only in high detail, then maybe do

my brothers and re release it. That will give you a taste of

"high" pollie.

[Silent Pro 0]

The point is that it has been shown and proven that hi res Jpeg textures on any 3d model in OFP are texture memory hogs. Creating hi poly models and using them is not impossible, texturing them with hi res images and then trying to use them is impractical. Maybe it's your time wasted but, just like anything...if you try to prove to people that your brute force method of doing things is the best way possible rather than doing things the most efficient way possible, you are sure to have many people complain.

I am not complaining but, you want your models to be high poly, thats your choice. But just know you cannot backup claims of high levels of performance and compatability with one or two cases, and then apply your successes across the board for all cases

After you texture these, how will ofp react? Why push the limits of the 3d engine? Its not a 3d benchmark you are trying to make, its an addon.

Developers have held to the simple formula for 3d models and their textures for a long time now, simple models(low poly), great textures(high detail and compressed) and recently (HW t&l effects, bump mapping, pixel shading, vertex shading...etc). The focus has never been and will not be the 3d model until much later down the road. Until bus speeds and transfer rates become wide enough to accomodate what is needed to calculate the geometry of these high poly models, you will not see them in usage. It has and always will be the textures, lighting, shading and effects that make a 3d model look great, not the other way around.

OFP's problem is memory managment like i said earlier. With poly's, it doesnt matter how large they are. A face is still just a group of vertices no matter what scale it is. Rendering a face without textures is cake for any system, rendering each face with mapped textures is what tests the systems GPU, CPU, RAM and video ram subystems.

And yes JPEG, textures are a no-no. You want to squeeze every single frame per second out of a 3d engine, not gouge it until it cant take anymore.

Hope that helps you understand what all the hoopla is about.

[Rembo 0]

i cant DL it :'(

[Silent Pro 0]

Dont bother, they're not even textured yet.

[Munk 0]

If your trying to download from OFPCentral the addons been completely deleted from the site thanks to people like Slient Pro here... why cant you people just appreciate what addon makes do for the community?

[Gordy 0]

All I can say is that I completely agree with MODS here.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all.

Don't like it, don't dload it and don't use it. Some of us want, no, REQUIRE progress in the addon quality. We want more and Dudes like Drill Sergeant provides us with that progress. I also got a kick in the ass for bringing the high poly models so I completely agree with him and people like him.

Everything changes, so is the game. Stay in the dark ages or come with us. Let's stop the high-poly-performance dispute and be contructive. If you don't like it leave now choose another thread.

Let us work in peace.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

Dont bother, they're not even textured yet.

Ok let my try to explain this once more...

What was released was fully textured 6 month old guns.

Ok?

What was pictured was current (now old) progress and was

in a seperate folder in the addon file.

Alright still with me?

Since the guns were six months old they had some errors

in the models (Mostly the M14 and the M82a3).

All of these errors have been corrected as of now

with revisions of the models. Hence why they need new

textures.

Hope that clears it up.

@ Munk/Gordy

Thanks guys, atleast some people belive in changeing

the world.

@ Rembo

Sorry dude, the pack was causeing false impressions and

problems so like a bad tooth it had to be pulled.

Hopefully I can finish reviseing the pack and have them

fully textured and ready to go, soon.

All it takes is a good texture artist.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Stay in the dark ages or come with us.

Hardly. Using massively high-poly models is like using a dark age weapon: No subtlety, no elegance, just using brute power to create an effect. If Earl's weapons were katanas, then these are like massive, ornate double-headed battleaxes. Sure, they look cool and say positive things about the weapon-maker's skill and attention to detail, but crisp and simple is more efficient, and can be just as effective.

[Silent Pro 0]

If your trying to download from OFPCentral the addons been completely deleted from the site thanks to people like Slient Pro here... why cant you people just appreciate what addon makes do for the community?

If you look at these posts Munk, the file was taken offline before I posted. So i had nothing to do with the "I'm taking my ball with me.." response.

Instead of demonizing me why dont you realize what i had posted and think about it. A proven formula has been established by professionals long before you, Gordy, or Drill Sergeant were even drooling at the sight of a 3 dimensional model. Yet you all think you're breaking new ground?

You're not breaking any rules, you're just ignoring them. You wont be acomplishing anything unseen or "revolutionary" in OFP. You are skirting aside the suggestions and recommendations by not just the OFP community but game art design methodology in use by the game industry. You claim to be pushing limits, but most of us see you as going backward, you really are reinventing the wheel by going through all the pitfalls that the original inventors already went through.

Drill Sergeant, you cant change the world, especially not in this sense. You want to give us a monster truck in place of a Porsche 911 Carerra. Sorry but, i dont think so.

[Munk 0]

If you look at these posts Munk, the file was taken offline before I posted. So i had nothing to do with the "I'm taking my ball with me.." response.

I wasnt placing the blame on you, you were just the last post of that nature I read.

Quote[/b] ]Instead of demonizing me why dont you realize what i had posted and think about it

You posted something that had already been posted plenty of times before and had already got a response from DS explaining why it was that way.

Once again, people like DS do this for free in thier spare time and are kind enough to share thier addons with us so if you dont like it keep your damn mouth shut and dont download it

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]keep your damn mouth shut and dont download it

Maybe you'd like to follow Silent Pro's suggestion and read (and think) about what he posts. Instead of saying "shut up", try to argue that these details are necessary and that this is a step up, instead of an attempt to reinvent the wheel.

[Silent Pro 0]

Once again, people like DS do this for free in thier spare time and are kind enough to share thier addons with us so if you dont like it keep your damn mouth shut and dont download it

Ok, first off i am not attacking Drill Sergeant in any manner, why you feel the need to attack me on his behalf is beyond me. I offer solid suggestions with a real strong ground for argument (not name calling or malicious accusations), and your response does not even justify your support nor Drill Sergeants reasons for continuing down this path. Basically all i've gathered from the arguments presented is that DS chose to make a high poly model, he corrected some errors, had some textures before and now needs new ones for revised models...he's sticking to high poly models because thats his preference. He needs a texture artist to make these look good. You tell me to shutup because you like DS and his work and then you tell me this is for free and he's sharing his work? I cant EVEN sample the work. It has been taken offline. For now the only pertinent information about this addon is that there are some screenshots and that the models are high poly...the rest is all talk.

If anything...you need to read these posts more carefully before letting the fanboy inside get the best of you.

[Gordy 0]

Although I disagree with Silent Pro in this matter, I totaly disagree with such behaviour as yours Munk. I think we should discuss this on a hard evidence level not emotional. Keep the fight clean.