which special force to use when?

[RMATICH 0]

Great posts by all epeaclially our Delta person! Hats off to you sir! I like the fact that we have one in our OFP comunity. Question for him is this: How do the Operation Flashpoint addon Deltas and rangers Spetznas etc do as far as relistic weapons and uniforms not to mention the squad make ups? I'd love to here what he has to say. Also can someone clarify anything on Force Recon? Whats do they do? I'm still not sure. I know they have practised urban warfare. TIA.

[FerretFangs 0]

If there was a member of Delta here, he wouldn't/couldn't say he was. I think you are referring to Monty67t? That's Delta Company, of the 4/101st Aviation Regiment. Not SFOD-Delta. Great guys I'm sure, but world-class, premier CQB specialists? Probably not. At least not many.

[BoweryBaker 0]

As far as who's deltas are more accurate between bas and laser ill tell you. In lasers deltas the only accurate part is the nomex delta. When it comes to camouflage deltas, the bas one is more accurate, because the top shirt doesn't get tucked in. Yeah you can but they don't. Not in Nam. Not in the Gulf. Not in afghanistan. So both deltas have their accuracies but the laser delta that is camo is not that accurate unless you wanted to say its a camo nomex flight suit.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

As far as who's deltas are more accurate between bas and laser ill tell you.  In lasers deltas the only accurate part is the nomex delta.  When it comes to camouflage deltas, the bas one is more accurate, because the top shirt doesn't get tucked in.  Yeah you can but they don't.  Not in Nam.  Not in the Gulf.  Not in afghanistan.  So both deltas have their accuracies but the laser delta that is camo is not that accurate unless you wanted to say its a camo nomex flight suit.

Let's not forget Laser's are still beta, and he's also very busy with new ORCS stuff and the RHS Motorized Infantry and so on.

[Just an OFP Freak 0]

Ok, Ok, so many Spec Ops talk is making me confusing. Let's focus in game. All the special forces that have been released for OFP (including BAS d/r, Lsr Units,...), are they really any different e.g. more capable than other generic BIS Infantry, I mean are they improved by scripts or better AI or anything, or is it just visual so the player is somewhat just "variety of choice". Cos if they are not improved, heck, than whats teh point.

Don't get this post wrong I am not saying I don't like these addons or these addons suck, cos they are top notch. I just wan't to know if they are any different(improved) from default infantry in OFP.

[FerretFangs 0]

Well, BAS's Deltas are self-healing, and I believe, better armored. ANd they are equipped with some great weapons, as well. Much more firepower, and flexible per squad than BIS.

[redliner47 0]

Quote[/b] ]Not in Nam. Not in the Gulf. Not in afghanistan. So both deltas have their accuracies but the laser delta that is camo is not that accurate unless you wanted to say its a camo nomex flight suit

Delta was formed in 1977, they werent in Nam

there goes me nitpicking

[BoweryBaker 0]

Well, there is a reason to get the BAS soldiers or the LSR ones. They both have the removable goggles that play a key role in getting out of a chopper and not coughing your face off from the dust. Kind of a reminder of what a real operative must do, makes the game more realistic too. The BAS deltas, im not sure about the LSR ones, can heal each other. The BAS weapons have more capabilities such as a shotgun mixed with a rifle, a longer range grenade launcher on the m4, and in the latest version of the bas spec ops the guns have more bang to them which doesn't make any difference to the ai but helps you feel like your kicking more butt than with a gun thats like spew spew all quiet n stuff. I feel like im kicking more butt when my gun is loud and bangy. I feel like , man this gun I can really rock with. Just like i was talking to a former marine the other day who said he was pissed when they switched to the m16a2 from the a1 because he likes to rock n roll. When he served the SAW first came out. I'll explain what that is later. I like to rock n roll too. If you're going to shoot someone you might as well be a badass doing it. Another thing that seperates the bis units from these is that the BAS spec ops comes with an m249 para and m249 that let you also hold a rocket launcher. Some say thats not real, some say it is. I'm one of the guys who says it is real. I know its possible, but its not like you can hop a wall with that gear on you, its not even that you'd be assigned that gear in real combat, but it IS possible which was the point of BAS doing that. Also BAS has a silenced m249 which NOONE else has done before. Like its been said before the BAS units can take more punishment and thats about it. If Laser and BAS were to team up to make some units they'd look much better than they do now. With BAS scripting and LSR good looking units ( especially way better looking kneepads) we could see a very good Delta. I don't like using the LSR rangers because I think they lag, think, its going to take some testing. I only say that because of a situation i was in with them and i was lagging on desert island with them and the green beret units and one of them was causing me lag, it wasn't player count or ai count. Another reason i don't use the LSR rangers is because i prefer the bas weapons, i even prefer the bas weapons over suchey and earl because suchey and earl didn't make an m4 mk, they didn't let you have a SAW and a launcher at the same time also. This is why I think BAS weapons are the best no matter of public opinion in this community. I stand by my opinion firmly. I also want to say that I'm a little upset that BAS is working with suchey and earl on the weapons for their next package because what are they going to do for an mk or the silenced m249? Will they not have them anymore? Will the teams argue over whether or not the m249 should only take up one weapon slot and suchey and earl win to make the m249 go back to taking up two spots? These things I think about and worry because lately the latest bas spec ops release has some of the coolest weapon ideas and id hate to see that all ruined. m4 mk, silenced m249, m249 that only takes up one spot, ill miss you all.

[monty67t 0]

Holy Cow! Where do I start. First of all, none of you have any idea which D-Boys are more accurate (BAS or Laser), because no one here knows what kind of gear they are wearing these days. Everyone has their opinions and guesses, but when it comes down to it, no one knows except them. My guess would be that they wear whatever the hell they want. More than likely some sort of clothing to make them fit in. They definately don't run around in helmets and nomex all the time. I'm sure they wear something like the helmets and nomex on certain occasions, but not on a regular basis. Special operations units want to blend in, not stick out.

As for who operates under what conditions, again, all we can do is guess. The comment about using a satchel to blow a bridge because it's cheaper is outrageous. If you haven't noticed, the U.S. doesn't care too much about a budget. I have seen a video of an AC-130 gunship shooting several 105 howitzer rounds at one guy in Afghanistan.

My final advice for you would be use whatever you want to use. Pretty much all special operations units are trained to handle anything. The U.S. Army Special Forces has scuba teams, the Marines do aswell, the Navy is known for it, etc.

I leave you with a 2 pictures that I love of U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers. These pictures might better explain what I was talking about when I said they want to blend.

PICTURE 1

PICTURE 2

Monty

[FerretFangs 0]

Monty, you may disagree with what I said, but "outrageous" is a little over the top, dude.

An Alpha team packing satchel charges is much cheaper than a pair of F-15E's loaded out with AGM-130s, if air defense consists of 23mm and 30mm out the wazoo, and SA-11/10/15's. Would you send in an airstrike into a wall of steel risking the aircrews, and those sent in to get them back?  

Or would you send those guys watching from the weeds to take out that bridge? Now, if those guys are facing heavy iron around that bridge, the situation is changed. Depends on the importance of the target, right? TLAM it maybe.

I was just saying, a wise commander, will try to utilize the assets at his disposal in the best possible way, rather than just throwing away multi-million dollar platforms, weapons and highly trained men to a job that a pair of satchel charges could.  

And I'm aware of the AC-130 reference. But thats what that plane does. ( My brother is crew chief on USAF SOCOM '130s, BTW. ) Would it be the same call if there had been Tunguskas guarding the cave complex? Probably not.

Hopefully not!

[monty67t 0]

Can you name me a conflict in the past 20 years were the U.S. has faced air defenses like that? Are you talking about an in game situation here? I sure hope so.

What would I do if that unrealistic situation happened? I would send in an A-Team to laser designate the target and fly a B-2 Spirit over head with a laser guided bomb. Or better yet, have the team get grid cooridinates and send a B-2 with a satellite guided bomb.

I will no longer comment on this topic. You can argue this forever, it's pointless.

Monty

[ruff 102]

Quote[/b] ]Not in Nam.  Not in the Gulf.  Not in afghanistan.  So both deltas have their accuracies but the laser delta that is camo is not that accurate unless you wanted to say its a camo nomex flight suit

Delta was formed in 1977, they werent in Nam  

there goes me nitpicking

well most of the COs and non COs of delta in the early days was part of the experimental unit charlie formed in nam, i think it was called delta also it had a recruiting slogan for sf in nam

"guarantees you a medal, a body bag or both"

[Drill Sergeant 0]

Theres another thing about delta. In a very aged book in libary. (70's-80's.) It had pictures of various military units and

there insignia's. One thing I came across was a unit called.

"Agressors" There arm patch was a yellow triangle on a green circle. Only thing the book said about them was: They were

a highly secret unit and were trained to replicate the russian

combat tactics. So is it possible this book showed a picture of

one of the "First" delta units? Or are the agressors some one else?

BTW are then any US navy SWCC men in OFP?

[FerretFangs 0]

The Agressor squadron is an Air Force organization that trains US fighter jocks in dissimilar ACM skills. "Dogfighting" with "enemy" pilots.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

Odd this guy was on the ground with a M60.

Wearing tiger stripe and had a flopy hat.

Didn't know they ishued m60's as side arms.

J/K

[FerretFangs 0]

Really? Heh, That is funny! No, I meant something along these lines: http://www.f4aviation.co.uk/Oldstuff/2004/aggressors/aggress.htm

[Drill Sergeant 0]

Weird this was a ground forces book only. They were called agressors. I'll have to get the book again. Was a US Special forces group.

[Guest]

I leave you with a 2 pictures that I love of U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers. These pictures might better explain what I was talking about when I said they want to blend.

PICTURE 1

PICTURE 2

Monty

Interesting pictures but one thing disturbs me: this guy is not wearing any kind of flags or symbols nor is he wearing a proper uniform which could help letting him being identified as an US soldier. He is carrying a weapon though so he is a combatant. This is against the Geneva Convention which means this soldier is a guerilla unit and a war criminal.

I don't think this is a good example of a SF unit.

[monty67t 0]

Quote[/b] ]Interesting pictures but one thing disturbs me: this guy is not wearing any kind of flags or symbols nor is he wearing a proper uniform which could help letting him being identified as an US soldier. He is carrying a weapon though so he is a combatant. This is against the Geneva Convention which means this soldier is a guerilla unit and a war criminal.

I don't think this is a good example of a SF unit.

You are wrong, do some research.

[Guest]

Well, it's easy to say "you are wrong".

The Geneva Convention says one has to wear a distinctive, fixed sign that can be seen at a distance.

When I see a bunch of bikers carrying weapons, one with a baseball hat and a blue tanktop, one with a khaki vest how could I know these guys are US soldiers and not guerillas?

[EMAN 0]

arrrmm, they are at war not in a parade. personally I could care less about the Geneva Convention if I were over there.Put yourself in their shoes

[monty67t 0]

Quote[/b] ]how could I know these guys are US soldiers and not guerillas?

That's the point genius! It's called unconventional warfare. They grew long beards to fit in. I guess if you were there you would run around with a big flag on your chest. These forums sure are entertaining, lol.

Monty

P.S. Do more research!

[Guest]

Yep, this definitely fits all stereotypes one can have about US troops. They don't care about the geneva convention but when they get caught they want to be treated like POWs (which they obviously do not deserve as guerilla units are not protected by the geneva convention).

In World War I unconventional warfare was attacking the enemy with an aircraft.

Today special forces dress like bikers to better "fit in".

If this really is the US army special forces' way of warfare at the moment it is an unacceptable violation of the geneva convention which I definitely can't support and which will give the critics of US foreign policy what they wanted.

[monty67t 0]

They have been doing this for years. This is nothing new. As for your comments about U.S. soldiers, you fit the stereotype of everyone who thinks they know about the military but doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. I am a U.S. soldier serving right now and I would love to meet you. To see what kind of "man" you are. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I will no longer give you the honor of debating anything with me.

Monty

PROUD TO BE A U.S. SOLDIER

P.S. Do more research!

[stgn 39]

Well nobody Know what Delta looks like but I would say that BAS's are closer to what you could expect today mainly do too the Kevlars cause If you look at meany pictures SF dosent use the cool Protecs that much eny more but I sure hope I am rong. Lasers makes me think of somthing from the start of the 90ties like BHD. Also I persaonaly think BAS ones looks better than lasers.

STGN