The Iraq thread 3

[theavonlady 2]

what the hell could they belive after the Iraqis on that site are calling the US army "liberation force".That after two wars,thousands of civillians killed,and not even geting to the current situation after all the promises they made,and the 1991 Shia rebellion when the Americans let Saddam sloughter them one by one after they promissed to help.

Prior to Falujjah and Sadr, polls showed that Iraq is better than it was under Saddam.

For the thousands of tragic Iraqi dead that the current war has caused, it pales in comparision with what Iraqis, particularly Shi'ites, suffered for 36 years (not 36 months) under Iraq's Baath Party and Saddam Husein.

When you've been there and done that, maybe you, too, would appreciate the only people that gave your countrymen a once in a lifetime opportunity be a free human being.

There's nothing shocking here. Some Iraqis don't miss Saddam, appreciate what the US did for them and are looking forward to the day when they can run things freely themselves.

[theavonlady 2]

Hey Avon, looks like Brahimi is behind the shift in US policies on Falluja:

Quote[/b] ]Brahimi warns US against use of force in Fallujah

Yes. I read the morning papers.

Quote[/b] ]Brahimi's Two Mistakes

By WILLIAM SAFIRE

Published: April 26, 2004

WASHINGTON

U.N. Special Envoy Lakhdar Brahimi, the Bush administration's great Arab hope to appoint a transition government that would bring democracy to Iraq, is off to a troubling start.

His first mistake was to announce on French radio that "the great poison in the region is this Israeli policy of domination and the suffering imposed on the Palestinians," as well as the "equally unjust support of the United States for this policy."

That freelance condemnation was too much for even Kofi Annan, who sent out his official spokesman to explain that Brahimi was "a former foreign minister of Algeria" who was "expressing his personal views" and not necessarily those of the secretary general.

Undaunted by this rebuke (U.N. officials are not empowered to condemn member nations), Brahimi went on ABC television to tell George Stephanopoulos in an interview taped Friday that President Bush's support of the Sharon plan to withdraw from Gaza made his task in Iraq harder because the brutal, repressive Israelis "are not interested in peace no matter what you seem to believe in America."

This supposedly fair-minded international civil servant — in whom we are entrusting the delicate assignment to negotiate a path to free elections among Iraqi Sunnis, Shia, Kurds and other groups — then used his ABC-TV forum to make his second mistake.

As the world knows all too well, the insurgent forces combining Saddam's experienced killers and Al Qaeda terrorists have taken control of Falluja, near Baghdad. Obliteration is not an option; we are not Putin's Russians taking Grozny after leveling it.

This presents us with a trio of options. Here is what the president, his National Security Council and top field commanders have been wrestling with this past weekend:

Do we continue to try to negotiate with the insurgents holding the city's residents hostage, with our forces taking casualties almost every day? A series of broken truces would show restraint and compassion for civilians but would be taken for weakness by many throughout Iraq. Terrorists would then attempt similar standoffs in other cities, with more casualties in the long run.

Or do we send in our marines and other troops, backed by tanks and choppers, to end the Falluja insurgency? That would risk raising the immediate level of bloodshed on all sides for a brief period — thereby potentially infuriating Arabs everywhere who would see the suffering on Al Jazeera television.

Or do we search for some third way — patiently recruit and train former Iraqi soldiers, pay them plenty, and run joint patrols with U.S. marines — in hopes that we can slowly grind down the opposition before it bleeds us to despair? If this compromise doesn't work, we could then choose option one or two: interminable delay, or fight to win.

Either the coalition will take charge of Falluja or the insurgents will create a capital for their comeback. Unless the terrorists turn in real weapons, the liberation should assert control, neighborhood by neighborhood, with enough infantry power to make the battle of Falluja as short and decisive as possible.

The diplomat Brahimi evades the choice, which is his second mistake. "In this situation," he says, "there is no military solution." He elevates that to a philosophy: "There is never any military solution to any problem." Pacifism has its adherents, but when bin Laden's agents are shooting at liberators, do you turn the city, and ultimately the country, over to them?

Brahimi, diplomats assure me, is not really a pacifist; Algerians did not drive out the French without bloody warfare. His strategy is to gain quick local support by denouncing Israel (always an Arab street-pleaser) and by aligning the U.N. with those Iraqis who — having been cured of crippling despotism — now feel free to throw their crutches at the doctor.

As semi-sovereignty approaches, Iraqi politicians, except for Kurds, curry voter favor by complaining about having to join the fight for Iraqi freedom. Ayatollah al-Sistani is so fearful that a fiery upstart backed by Iran's Hezbollah will steal his followers that he competes by demanding a tyranny of the Shia majority.

The U.N.'s militantly pacifist Brahimi is falling in with this anti-Western Arab demagoguery. In embracing him so readily as the acceptable legitimator, Bush's heart may have been too soon made glad.

[quicksand 0]

Some more extracts from http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Quote[/b] ] The foolish supporters of Muqtada spread a dirty rumor in Basra just after the attacks last Wednesday; the rumor said that the British are involved in the attacks. Of course, very little people in Basra believed that crap but anyway

The nerve,but its nice to see that Omar the Iraqi instead of being preocupied of the dead civillians and the grieving famillies he is just shocked that the British are taking the blame.

Quote[/b] ]The hardest thing is that I have to fight more, and I will, but God, please give me the strength. Why should I be strong while watching others run away; Spain, Honduras, Thailand, human organizations, the UN and all the others who want (and it’s their right I must say) to avoid the dangers. But why did they disappoint us

He is an Iraqi?   Has anyone heared any representent of the Iraqi gouverning council ever speaking?I had.They are the most educated people from Iraq and still don`t speak half as good as Mohammad writes.

But one thing is for sure.Never ever have I heared even when they were speaking in English refering to Allah as God.

I have an arab student in my class.Belive me when I say she is moderate and open minded but she still calls Dumnezeu(God) Allah.

Quote[/b] ]We are dealing with a group of Islamo fascists

Way to go Ali

In case some didn`t get it "Islamo fascists" i one the most racist terms used.Even Fox News wouldn`t use this word for the sharp critics they would recive from not only from muslims but from other outraged people around the world.Someone who belives that a muslim would use this word has serious problems...

Yep this are the views of a real Iraqi!

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]As the world knows all too well, the insurgent forces combining Saddam's experienced killers and Al Qaeda terrorists have taken control of Falluja, near Baghdad.

Avon this is from your comment or article.

Looks a bit biased don´t you think ?

"The world" he´s talking about knows that in Falluja civillians were collectively punished for the actions of others.

I didn´t hear that AQ has men in Falluja, I also didn´t know that in Falluja there are "Saddam's experienced killers".

Don´t you think that the author has some serious gaps in his knowledge about Iraq ?

[theavonlady 2]

Some more extracts from http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Quote[/b] ] The foolish supporters of Muqtada spread a dirty rumor in Basra just after the attacks last Wednesday; the rumor said that the British are involved in the attacks. Of course, very little people in Basra believed that crap but anyway

The nerve,but its nice to see that Omar the Iraqi instead of being preocupied of the death civillians and the grieving famillies he is just shocked that the British are taking the blame.

He's already done that several times. And if he sits there and grieves without pointing out who's killing Iraqi's chance at freedom, he wouldn't be of help.

For some strange reason you cut your quote short. He said:

Quote[/b] ]Of course, very little people in Basra believed that crap but anyway, here's the truth about the attacks from the IP.

The nerve, indeed.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]The hardest thing is that I have to fight more, and I will, but God, please give me the strength. Why should I be strong while watching others run away; Spain, Honduras, Thailand, human organizations, the UN and all the others who want (and it’s their right I must say) to avoid the dangers. But why did they disappoint us

He is an Iraqi? Has anyone heared any representent of the Iraqi gouverning council ever speaking?I had.They are the most educated people from Iraq and still don`t speak half as good as Mohammad writes.

But one thing is for sure.Never ever have I heared even when they were speaking in English refering to Allah as God.

Quote[/b] ]We are dealing with a group of Islamo fascists

Way to go Ali

Yep this are the views of a real Iraqi!

Maybe he's really

a Pakistani, or, as I've mentioned already, A Kuwaiti.

[theavonlady 2]

Don´t you think that the author has some serious gaps in his knowledge about Iraq ?

Possibly but much less than the wishful thinking you mostly see here.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Don´t you think that the author has some serious gaps in his knowledge about Iraq ?

Possibly but much less than the wishful thinking you mostly see here.

mind i remind you that most members who had 'wishful' thinking about post war effort before the war also had better prognosis then?

[quicksand 0]

I am sorry Avon but I stil fail to see the word "God" or "Islamo fascists" in their editorials.Would you be so kind to point them out?

"Islamo fascists" is an American created,racist(if you will) term that has been widely used after the 9/11 attacks and when the guerilla war started in Iraq.I will repeat myself, even the strongest pro-US media  won`t used it as the public would be outraged.Again tell me how could an Iraqi use such a term?

"God" Never ever have I heared even when Arabs were speaking in English refering to Allah as God.

I myself have an arab student in my class.Belive me when I say she is moderate and open minded but she still calls Dumnezeu(God) Allah because of commodity not because she belives there are two Gods

Anyway maybe he made an extra effort to make it a complete translation but nothing could explain "islamo fascists" except the fact that this guy is bullshiting us..

[denoir 0]

Prior to Falujjah and Sadr, polls showed that Iraq is better than it was under Saddam.

No they didn't. One poll showed that the Iraqis thought that their lives were better than one year ago that is when they were on the recieving end of the USAF delivery service or when they were waiting for it. If you are going to twist the facts, try at least to do it in a less transparent way.

[theavonlady 2]

Prior to Falujjah and Sadr, polls showed that Iraq is better than it was under Saddam.

No they didn't. One poll showed that the Iraqis thought that their lives were better than one year ago that is when they were on the recieving end of the USAF delivery service or when they were waiting for it. If you are going to twist the facts, try at least to do it in a less transparent way.

I pointed out your error previously. The second question of the survey is:

Quote[/b] ]Q2 - Compared to a year ago, I mean before the war in Spring 2003, are things

overall in your life much better now, somewhat better, about the same,

somewhat worse or much worse?

Base = All respondents

%

Much better now 21.9

Somewhat better 34.6

About the same 23.3

Somewhat worse 12.7

Much worse 5.9

Difficult to say 1.6

Total 100.0

Is that transparent enough for you, Denny, ol' boy?

[theavonlady 2]

I am sorry Avon but I stil fail to see the word "God" or "Islamo fascists" in their editorials.Would you be so kind to point them out?

"Islamo fascists" is an American created,racist(if you will) term that has been widely used after the 9/11 attacks and when the guerilla war started in Iraq.I will repeat myself, even the strongest pro-US media  won`t used it as the public would be outraged.Again tell me how could an Iraqi use such a term?

"God" Never ever have I heared even when Arabs were speaking in English refering to Allah as God.

I myself have an arab student in my class.Belive me when I say she is moderate and open minded but she still calls Dumnezeu(God) Allah because of commodity not because she belives there are two Gods

Anyway maybe he made an extra effort to make it a complete translation but nothing could explain "islamo fascists" except the fact that this guy is bullshiting us..

Well, you go ahead and believe what you want. But follow the Iraqi bloggers (and there are tons of them) and many are singing a similar tune.

You sing what you want to sing. It's a free forum.

[denoir 0]

Is that transparent enough for you, Denny, ol' boy?

Thank you for the correction. But it still stands more or less. We're talking about one year ago, before the war. That is when they were expecting an attack any day. I can imagine that they were not happy campers.

But even if we completely disregard that, the results are quite bad. Iraq had extremely harsh sanctions against it. Now they are lifted and still about half of the people in the poll don't think things have gotten better. And that's bad, considering the terrible state that Iraq was in before the war.

[theavonlady 2]

Don´t you think that the author has some serious gaps in his knowledge about Iraq ?

Possibly but much less than the wishful thinking you mostly see here.

mind i remind you that most members who had 'wishful' thinking about post war effort before the war also had better prognosis then?

So, are you now a thought control poiceman, like your dad, Ralph?

[theavonlady 2]

Is that transparent enough for you, Denny, ol' boy?

Thank you for the correction. But it still stands more or less. We're talking about one year ago, before the war. That is when they were expecting an attack any day. I can imagine that they were not happy campers.

But even if we completely disregard that, the results are quite bad. Iraq had extremely harsh sanctions against it. Now they are lifted and still about half of the people in the poll don't think things have gotten better. And that's bad, considering the terrible state that Iraq was in before the war.

We're repeating ourselves. Not only is it better now than it was under Saddam but there's morale hoping for a better future:

Quote[/b] ]Q3 - What is your expectation for how things overall in your life will be in a year

from now? Will they be much better, somewhat better, about the same,

somewhat worse or much worse?

Base = All respondents

%

Much better 36.7

Somewhat better 34.3

About the same 9.4

Somewhat worse 3.2

Much worse 3.4

Difficult to say 12.8

Total 100.0

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Possibly but much less than the wishful thinking you mostly see here.

Huh ?

Elaborate !

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well, you go ahead and believe what you want. But follow the Iraqi bloggers (and there are tons of them) and many are singing a similar tune.

You sing what you want to sing. It's a free forum.

I can relate to that but clear me up on this matter.You a person that thinks those are the views of the Iraqis do you agree or not that not one IRAQI nor any other ARAB would use the word "Islamo fascist" a term of AMERICAN ORIGINS that even pro-American news madia considers it too vulgar scandalous and racist to use it.

This is very important as we are debating the credibility of the site.It`s not about beliving what I want it`s about facts.

[theavonlady 2]

I have an arab student in my class.Belive me when I say she is moderate and open minded but she still calls Dumnezeu(God) Allah.

I have met and talked with enough Moslems in my life. Those highly fluent in English will use the term "God" just as much as I do not use the Hebrew terms for God when I speak in English, especially when talking to a non-Muslim audience.

Want an example, go through this article at Islamicity.com and search for the words "God" and "Allah". What did you find?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]We are dealing with a group of Islamo fascists

Way to go Ali

In case some didn`t get it "Islamo fascists" i one the most racist terms used.Even Fox News wouldn`t use this word for the sharp critics they would recive from not only from muslims but from other outraged people around the world.Someone who belives that a muslim would use this word has serious problems...

Yep this are the views of a real Iraqi!

Is this blogger an observant Muslim? There are other Iraqi bloggers who aren't, like Zeyad at Healing Iraq.

But wait! If I said that Rabbi Meir Kahane's Kach party was a Jewish Fascist group, would that make me a racist? BTW, that's not my opinion.

Fascism defined:

fas-cism (fash'iz uhm) n.

1. (sometimes cap.) a totalitarian

governmental system led by a dictator

and emphasizing an aggressive

nationalism, militarism, and often racism.

2. (sometimes cap.) the philosophy,

principles, or methods of fascism.

3. (cap.) a movement toward or embodying

fascism, esp. the one established by

Mussolini in Italy 1922-43.

[1915-20; < It fascismo = fasc (io) bundle,

political group (see FASCES) + -ismo - ISM]

Now, back to Iraqi blogger Ali's full quote:

Quote[/b] ]We are dealing with a group of Islamo fascists, hypocrite opportunistic clerics, terrorists from outside Iraq, fanatic Iraqi Wahabis and remnants of the old regime

He doesn't call Islam or Moslems "Islamo fascists". He says that some of those perpetuating the attacks in Iraq are.

Do you believe that is a false statement?

And indeed you wont find such words on fox news. Your news is especially prepaired for your home entertainment and pleasure.

Bloggers can say what they want.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Well, you go ahead and believe what you want. But follow the Iraqi bloggers (and there are tons of them) and many are singing a similar tune.

You sing what you want to sing. It's a free forum.

I can relate to that but clear me up on this matter.You a person that thinks those are the views of the Iraqis do you agree or not that not one IRAQI nor any other ARAB would use the word "Islamo fascist" a term of AMERICAN ORIGINS that even pro-American news madia considers it too vulgar scandalous and racist to use it.

This is very important as we are debating the credibility of the site.It`s not about beliving what I want it`s about facts.

The Iraq blog i quoted from links to numerous others, which link to more, which link to each other.

As my previous post pointed out, not all Iraqis are alike. Some are religious, some are secular. Some are not hesitant to call a spade a spade.

The term "Islamo fascists", when used in the context it was used, is, in the opinion of the author, a harsh but true description of some of those who are trying to destroy Iraq's ability to make of itself a free country.

And being free doesn't exclude being an Islamic country. Maybe this Iraqi wants something closer to Turkey than to Iran. Wouldn't you?

[theavonlady 2]

About Iraqi bloggers and Iraq The Model in particular:

Quote[/b] ]Iraqis enjoy new freedom of expression on Web journals

By César G. Soriano, USA TODAY

BAGHDAD — A year ago, few Iraqis had ever had access to a computer, much less used it to communicate to the outside world.

Now, Internet cafes seemingly dot every block in Baghdad, and new ones open often. That has led to a new phenomenon here: bloggers.

"We suffered for years under Saddam Hussein, not being able to speak out," says Omar Fadhil, 24, a dentist. "Now, you can make your voice heard around the world."

Hence, the blog. Short for "web log," a blog is a diary or journal posted on the Internet for all the world to read. E-mails can be sent to the blog, so it's also interactive.

Salam Pax's blog made him something of an international celebrity. Pax, the pseudonym of an Iraqi architect and translator, launched his blog in June 2002 as a way to correspond with his friend Raed Jarrar in Amman. What started as an e-mail exchange became one of the most gripping war diaries of the Internet age. Pax's journal describes the emotional pain caused by the U.S. military's attack on Baghdad a year ago.

His blog, dear_raed.blogspot.com, has been published as a book, Salam Pax: The Clandestine Diary of an Ordinary Iraqi. Pax, whose blog is among the most visited Iraqi sites, could not be reached for comment.

Fadhil's blog, iraqthemodel.blogspot.com, tells of his life and the lives of his two brothers. One brother also is a dentist, and the other is a pediatrician. "We wanted to help bridge the gap, not just between the U.S. and Iraq, but with the entire Islamic world," says Ali Fadhil, 34, the pediatrician. "The media is always taking a look at the bad stuff. We want to show the good progress in Iraq."

The brothers' blog is written with an unusually pro-American viewpoint, especially coming from three Sunni Muslims. Sunnis — among them, Saddam Hussein — dominated Iraq's majority Shiite Muslim population before the war.

"We get threatening e-mails from Palestinians and Arab-Americans who write, 'You are traitors. If I were in Iraq, I would shoot you,' " Ali says. Other e-mails accuse the brothers of being CIA agents who are writing from Washington, "as if the CIA didn't have anything better to do than run a blog," he says.

"My ideas are very shocking to people," Ali says. "I tell people I am a friend of America, a friend of Israel. Some of my colleagues at the hospital think I am an infidel. It's impossible to change a man's mind, but you can only make him consider other alternatives."

The brothers write their blog at the Twin Towers Internet Cafe, named after the Petronas Towers in Malaysia. On a recent day, all 10 computer stations were occupied at the cafe, where Internet time is 1,500 Iraqi dinars an hour (about $1). That's pricey in Iraq, where the average salary for a doctor is about $150 a month, up from $20 under Saddam's regime.

"People are enjoying their newfound freedoms," says Ali Wathak, 35, owner of the cafe. "It's a civilized country. We need to get connected to the world."

Like many bloggers, the Fadhil brothers' site solicits donations to help make ends meet. They've received more than $1,000, most of it from Americans. The money is wired to Kuwait, where friends pick it up. The Fadhils' site gets about 3,300 visitors and a few dozen e-mails a day.

Maintaining the blog "is really a 24-hour job," Omar says. "When I'm not blogging, I'm thinking about what to blog. I'm watching the news, discussing topics. It's become part of our life."

There are about 30 Iraqi bloggers in Baghdad, plus a few other blogs written by Iraqis abroad. Not all share the Fadhil brothers' optimism. "You have your Fox TV. I am offering a counter response," says Faisa Jarrar, whose blog is critical of the U.S. occupation. Her mixed Sunni-Shiite family began in December with a joint blog, afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com. Now, each of Jarrar's three sons has his own blog. Raed, 26, Jarrar's eldest, is studying in Jordan. Khalid, 21, and Majid, 17, are in Baghdad.

"All of our efforts are more individual efforts, but we have one common goal, to show the world what is really going on," Majid says.

Faisa Jarrar, a 40-something engineer and a Shiite, has maintained the family blog. She works on a PC in her home in western Baghdad. She has criticized what she sees as heavy-handed tactics by U.S. forces in parts of Baghdad and especially in Fallujah, where hundreds of Iraqis and dozens of Marines recently were killed in a two-week uprising.

"Dear Raed," she wrote to her son April 7. "Americans are gathering near the entrance of our neighborhood. Tanks and soldiers with machine guns. They look terrifying. ... We will spend the night in the 'safe room,' the one we used to hide in last year during the war. ... Only god can protect us from what's happening. These days are much darker than the days of Saddam Hussein."

Jarrar's site gets about 2,500 hits and about 50 e-mails a day. Most are supportive. "I get some hostile e-mails," she says. "I tell them to go look for other blogs that share their vision. ... I want to share with others our lives, our hopes. We are keeping in touch and making the world a small village."

She also has been corresponding with an American woman whose son is stationed in Baghdad. "We share the same feelings," she says. "Mothers are the same all over the world. I feel sad when a U.S. soldier is killed or injured, as if he was my own son or brother."

Back at the Twin Towers cafe, the Fadhil brothers are pecking away at the keyboard, reading volumes of e-mail. Some of the messages are hostile, even threatening. A German reader, who Ali says is "anti-everything," would like to kill the Fadhils for their pro-American comments. Ali clicks a few buttons to block the offender from his site.

The brothers say they won't bow to the high-tech threats. They say their postwar access to the Internet has been a form of liberation. "I am not afraid," Ali says. "I was afraid all my life. I will not go back to living in fear."

As the Iraqi blogger brothers say, maybe you, too, should consider other alternatives.

[Balschoiw 0]

The Iraqis show their happiness:

Iraq Blast Destroys Building, Wounds GI

Quote[/b] ]An explosion leveled a building in northern Baghdad on Monday, setting four U.S. Humvees nearby on fire. At least one U.S. soldier and several Iraqis were wounded.

The cause of the explosion was not immediately known. The burning Humvees were lined up as if parked outside the building, suggesting U.S. troops had moved in before the blast, perhaps to raid the building in the Waziriya district.

A military spokesman said the blast destroyed a number of Humvees but had no details. It was not clear if U.S. troops were raiding the building when the blast occurred.

The building, which residents said was a perfume factory, was reduced to rubble.

At least one wounded U.S. soldier was taken away in a stretcher from the burning Humvees, while U.S. troops surrounded the area. Several Iraqis were seen in footage by Associated Press Television News being carried out of the rubble.

The condition of the American and the Iraqis was not immediately known, nor was the total number of casualties.

A woman was weeping as she was carried out of the ruins over a man's shoulder. Another victim, a young man, appeared unconscious as Iraqis carried him out by his legs and arms. The total number of injured or killed was not immediately known.

An Iraqi man throws petrol onto a burning U.S. Army Humvee in the northern part of Baghdad

US special forces carry a body bag following an attack on US military Humvees in Baghdad. Two people were killed and four wounded in a powerful blast that blew up four US military vehicles.

[ozanzac 0]

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common....00.html

Quote[/b] ]PM in Baghdad for Anzac Day

25apr04

PRIME Minister John Howard today made a surprise visit to Baghdad for Anzac Day services as around Australia tens of thousands of people honoured the Anzac spirit.

Under extraordinary security arrangements, Mr Howard flew to Iraq for his first visit since Australia sent troops as part of the US-led invasion force in March last year.

He was to attend a dawn service and spend some time talking to troops and other Australian representatives on the ground in the capital.

"The trip to Iraq is in recognition of the great sacrifice and contribution Australian personnel are making there in challenging conditions," Mr Howard said.

"They are following in the footsteps of countless other Australians who have served the nation in many other parts of the globe.

"I am certain that all Australians will join me in expressing heartfelt thanks for their efforts.

"In remembering those who in the past have given their lives defending our freedoms and way of life, we should also honour those who today put their lives at risk in the service of Australia."

Mr Howard was joined by Mal Brough, minister assisting the defence minister, and Chief of the Defence Force, General Peter Cosgrove.

Australia has 90 air traffic controllers in Baghdad, plus a detachment of about 90 Army personnel and 53 soldiers who are in Iraq to assist in the training of the Iraqi armed forces.

Mr Howard's trip echoes one made by US President George W. Bush, who last year went into Iraq on a special American day - Thanksgiving Day.

Mr Howard had been listed to appear at the national Anzac Day ceremony in Canberra until this morning, when deputy Prime Minister John Anderson was listed as a last minute replacement.

Prime Minister John Howard used his Anzac Day message to express gratitude to Australians who fought for their country and to honour Australian military personnel serving overseas, especially those in Iraq.

"Our veteran ranks are diminishing with every passing year, but the spirit of Anzac continues to strengthen its hold on the affections of the Australian people," he said.

Mr Howard said the Australian troops who landed on the Gallipoli Peninsula on April 25, 1915, had come to symbolise the struggle of a hopeful nation starting to make its way in the world.

"The honour of their deeds and those who fought in later conflicts helped to shape the destiny of a people who value decency and mateship, who strive for fairness and stand up for what is right, whatever the cost," he said.

Mr Howard paid tribute to Australian Defence Force personnel who are serving overseas in the Solomon Islands, Iraq and East Timor and to those who took part in the war against terrorism in Afghanistan.

"Special honour is reserved for our soldiers, sailors and air force men and women in the Gulf who, in the best traditions of the Australian military, continue to bring credit to our country by helping liberate the oppressed people of Iraq," he said.

Meanwhile, thousands of Australians defied the government's travel advice to make the pilgrimage to Gallipoli to commemorate Anzac Day.

Apparently, the hercules on which he was travelling had it's Radar Warning Reciever go off warning of a missile launch upon his exit of Baghdad. Forcing evasive manouvres. Funny thing is, the same thing happened when the defence minister was visiting Bagram, Afgahnistan.

I wonder if the air force guys are pulling politicians legs to make their pants brown?

[theavonlady 2]

The Iraqis show their happiness:

Iraq Blast Destroys Building, Wounds GI

Adnan Saleb Ibrahim, a member of the U.S.-trained Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, (ICDC), greets an American military policeman at a checkpoint at the entrance of Fallujah, Iraq (news - web sites) Monday, April 26, 2004. The U.S. Marines are training ICDC members in conducting scheduled joint patrols in Fallujah later this week. (AP Photo/John Moore)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=....&prev=5

It's important to note who are these Iraqis:

Caption:

Iraqi Shiite Muslims hail radical Shiite leader Moqtada al-Sadr as they stones at a US Humvee following an explosion in Baghdad. Two people were killed and four wounded in a powerful blast that blew up four US military Humvees and caused a house to collapse in Baghdad.(AFP/Marwan Naamani)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=....rinter=

A number of Iraqi civilians were injured. You can easily find the pics. Ask them for their opinions.

Found a different kind of picture, too:

Caption:

Adnan Saleb Ibrahim, a member of the U.S.-trained Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, (ICDC), greets an American military policeman at a checkpoint at the entrance of Fallujah, Iraq (news - web sites) Monday, April 26, 2004. The U.S. Marines are training ICDC members in conducting scheduled joint patrols in Fallujah later this week. (AP Photo/John Moore)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=....&prev=7

[miles teg 1]

In the meantime, the Coalition Forces blink again:

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Extends Fallujah Cease-Fire 2 Days

AP - 1 hour, 8 minutes ago

The U.S. military extended a cease-fire for Fallujah on Sunday for at least two more days, backing down from warnings of an all-out Marine assault and announcing that American and Iraqi forces would begin joint patrols in the city.

Yeah, I think it's helarious that the USMC keep making this sinister threats to take Fellujah within days. From what I've read about their troop strength this would be an impossibility.

They need ALOT more armor and alot more troops to take Fellujah unless they are willing to take 100+ casualties.

They could attempt something similar to the assault on Baghdad during the invasion with large armor columns going in, but the Marines lack the Bradley IFV and the Marine APC's are NOT RPG resistant like the Bradleys. This is a major weakness of the Marines. The Bradley IFV is one of the chief reasons why the US Army experienced relatively low casualties during the raids into Baghdad by armored columns.

However the guerillas in Fellujah are much better prepared. They know now the weaknesses of the M1 Abrahms tanks (the roof of the tank won't stop RPG-7s apparently and a rear hit will immobolize it). They also have boobie trapped entire buildings and crossroads, and also have ambushes well planned out. Furthermore they are backed up by foreign fighters some of whom may have extensive military training such as some of the Lebanese fighters who may have had training in Hezbollah or other Al-Qaeda fighters who may have combat experience from Chechnya.

Whatever the case if the US wants to take Fellujah with low casualties they need ALOT more armor.

But even that can be countered...if guerillas maintain fire discipline and hold fire when armor is present, they can lure infantry forces into areas where even heavy armor will not stop massed attacks from taking a huge toll on APCs and disembarked infantry. When it comes down to it, if you have a well defended urban area, casualties are always going to be high. It just requires simple, brutal, and bloody house to house fighting.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[denoir 0]

We're repeating ourselves. Not only is it better now than it was under Saddam but there's morale hoping for a better future:

First of all the poll does not ask if it was better under Saddam but specifically if it was better a year ago, before the war. Second according to the polling data some 54% say that it is better. The 50% mark falls well within the 6% confidence interval of the polling results. So it might or might not be under or over 50%. Roughly we can say that half think it has gotten better while half does not.

Now put it into context. Iraq had suffered from two destructive wars. They had insanly harsh sanctions directed against them. They had a brutal dictator in power. It is difficult to imagine how anything else would not be better than what they had. Yet half of those in the poll said that things had not gotten any better - on the contrary many said that it had gotten worse. And now they don't have any sanctions and there is no Saddam. Just the lifting of sanctions should have meant that 99% of the Iraqis thought that things got better. But it did not. Which means that a lot of the other stuff has gotten worse! And that is truly a feat.

[theavonlady 2]

Yet half of those in the poll said that things had not gotten any better - on the contrary many said that it had gotten worse.

Less than one fifth of those polled said it go worse.

Almost all the rest said it's better or no worse than it was under Saddam.

That's no great report card but it's not the failure you're cutting it out to be.

Quote[/b] ]And now they don't have any sanctions and there is no Saddam. Just the lifting of sanctions should have meant that 99% of the Iraqis thought that things got better. But it did not. Which means that a lot of the other stuff has gotten worse! And that is truly a feat.

Maybe that's because of the security situation. Well, DUH! And guess what? 78% of those polled said (Q25) that attacks on the coalition forces is not acceptable and way high into the 90%'s said that attacks against Iraqi forces is unacceptable.

So what's continuing to fan the flames of war in Iraq? It's not the US. It's exactly what Iraqi blogger Ali said:

Quote[/b] ]We are dealing with a group of Islamo fascists, hypocrite opportunistic clerics, terrorists from outside Iraq, fanatic Iraqi Wahabis and remnants of the old regime who are united in an unholy alliance with different perspectives and goals but they all know that they have this frightening single enemy; democracy and freedom in Iraq.