To BIS... Radeon users would like...

[RedRogue 0]

Sure enable it if possible,

Just NO NEW BUGS!

---- How come that sounds familiar

[Desloc 0]

I didn't mean to upset all those NVidia user without Truform. It's a great tech, and it's easy for delevopers to implement. Smoother models result in more realism... period.

Maybe reading this will help Nvidia users ease their pain...

http://www.theinquirer.net/05120104.htm

[Ijustwannaknow 0]

actually Nvidia had a more advanced type of trueform called "HOS" High Order of surface on geforce 3 series graphics cards. It was disabled because games using Atis trueform would make the GEFORCE 3 HOS LAG causing unacceptable fps loss.

With nvidias hos It's also a two edged sword. Developers need to remodel the character – which means hard work, time and money. Characters would be easier to render and would have less polygons since the Nvidia implementation uses a feature called adaptive tessellation.

Truform, which are really N patches, just need a few lines of code and a few hours of work, to make a game look better, so my friends from Croteam, the developers of Serious Sam, tell me.

(Edited by Ijustwannaknow at 6:45 am on Dec. 6, 2001)

[Gorgi Knootewoot 0]

Yeah, a friend of mine has a Radeon 8500, and a other has the GForce 3 titanium thing and it is much faster.

-EVEN IN 1600*1200*32-

So im convinced that the GF3 is better that the Radeon. And I'm going to buy it next week................................

Gorgi "Super Junior Member" Knootewoot

[Carl 0]

err wahts Trueform?

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Carl on 4:40 pm on Dec. 6, 2001

err wahts Trueform?<span id='postcolor'>

Try this article on Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1476&p=1

[Gorgi Knootewoot 0]

i dunno

By the way,

RETURN TO CASTLE WOLFENSTEIN is too short. I finished the game on HARD in a 6.5 hours. The game is great but now all i can do is play online. But i rather play OFP online so now it sits there on a shelf and i will probably never look at it again.

BEST SINGLE PLAYER GAME --> Deus Ex

BEST MULTI PLAYER GAME --> OFP

Gorgi

[ALDEGA 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 8:42 pm on Dec. 5, 2001

the Radeon 8500 is faster then the GeF3 (same Generation)

<span id='postcolor'>

The GF3 was released like 6 months before the radeon8500, get your facts straight.

[MrLaggy 0]

That says nothing about which generation of chip they're in. Both are DX8 chips (though the Radeon is a little more sophisticated than the GF3) just as both the GF2 and original Radeon were DX7 chips.

[MrLaggy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Ijustwannaknow on 6:44 am on Dec. 6, 2001

With nvidias hos It's also a two edged sword. Developers need to remodel the character – which means hard work, time and money. Characters would be easier to render and would have less polygons since the Nvidia implementation uses a feature called adaptive tessellation.<span id='postcolor'>

And they'd need other, more detailed, models to run on non-GF3 boards or people would be continually complaining about the low-res models. Why would developers choose to produce an extra set of models which only work with one manufacturer's graphics cards? ATI clearly made the right choice here, even if their solution may be technically inferior; doesn't matter if you have the best hardware in the world if it takes a lot more effort for developers to program for it.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ALDEGA

The GF3 was released like 6 months before the radeon8500, get your facts straight.

<span id='postcolor'>

Facts? they are the Same Generation of Card, look up the word Generation in the dictionary plz, and he's corect in saying that these cards are based on the same DirectX which means even more that they are the same generation card, theres your FACTS lol

(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 11:34 am on Dec. 6, 2001)

[Gamer 10]

lol , Ok , If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks to sell them to gullible young men ?? Ever seen an Nvidia advert with some chick??  whats up with that?? How is she gonna help my gaming experience........... In time to come we will see which one comes thru on the driver support and my money is on Nvidia............tried ,true and tested.   nuff said

[ALDEGA 0]

DX does NOT define the generation....

I might as well start about OpenGL and Glide (for 3dfx chips) for that matter

And if you really want to base it on DX...

GF3-> DX8

R8500->DX8.1 (which has some ATI specific functions)

anyway, they were released 6 months away from each other, which is A LOT in the IT sector. If they were released within a month, then yes, you might compare them directly, but not when they're released 6 months away from each other, period.

The introduction of GPU/T&L is what could be considered a new generation IMO.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

No Sorry the GF3 does use new 8.1 Features making it fall into that generation

DirectX 8.1 was designed with these two next generation cards in mind dont forget, I can't use allot of new features in DirectX 8.1 with my Radeon 32 meg DDR, as is the case with all the GeF2 and other Radeons

>>>>>If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks

and this is bad how? nothing wrong with snazzing up the image, every one does it now and then even GeF, I've seen more GeF Magizine Adds then ATI in the last two years, ATI is just catching up.

besides I bet less then 10% of online gamers are females (seems like 1% though, we have what 2 women here?), face it women have lives and the mall.

We have Games and our Vehicles

So when ATI brought a cute chickie to their ad campaigne I did't complain

[JustinCase 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Cpt Gamer FtK on 7:09 pm on Dec. 6, 2001

lol , Ok , If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks to sell them to gullible young men ?? Ever seen an Nvidia advert with some chick??  <span id='postcolor'>

Maybe because nVidia doesn't make/sell graphics cards?

Anywy...it doesn't matter, this whole discussion can keep on continuing. The fact is: competition is good for us consumers. So as far as I'm concerned, I hope none of us is ever completely right about nvidia or ati being better than one or the other. If so competition would die and it would take ages to get newer drivers or cards.

[Desloc 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Cpt Gamer FtK on 7:09 pm on Dec. 6, 2001

lol , Ok , If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks to sell them to gullible young men ?? Ever seen an Nvidia advert with some chick??  whats up with that?? <span id='postcolor'>

ATI is a Canadian company... you obviously haven't seen our beatuiful ladies up here in Canada?

[WisdoM 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 7:30 pm on Dec. 5, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Wissdom

I beg to differ, my Elsa GF2 Ultra will rip a new asshol for a 32meg Radeon.

<span id='postcolor'>

whats the highest Res you can run OFP with out Frame lag?

this Card can handle 1600x1200 32 bit full OFP res at 48 FPS

I know for a fact that no GeF2 can even run that

Gef3 can but none of the Gef2

at 1024x768x32 I'm at 100 FPS

(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 8:31 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)

<span id='postcolor'>

well if I could get fraps to work I'd tell yah, I dont have a monitor that supports 1600X1200 yet, I had to send back some parts and my new rig is npot done But the GF2 Ultra is still one of teh best cards out there barrnone, it still amazes me though how people are bickering over videocards, neither card is better really, if you want to save money oyu should go with Radeon, but for the extra cash you pay the Ti500 is proven to be faster, you cant dispute that.

[WisdoM 1]

And all of you ATi fanboys shoudl read this http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500/quack/

[Desloc 0]

Old news... been fixed with newest drivers. It doesn't represent their hardware in any way or form.

GF Ti500 - great card, very fast, if not the fastest card on the market. It's based on one year old tech and is only DX8 compatible. Most expensive card you can buy.

Radeon 8500- great card, very fast. New tech based on DX 8.1. Drivers are fair(XP) to good(98) and will only get better. This card has only been out for a month and is cheaper than the competition's flagship product.

Each card has pluses and minuses, arguing which is better is sort of fultile.

So GF2/3 users should relax, you have a very good card. And don't worry, if OFP adds Truform, we'll post the screenies for ya

[WisdoM 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Desloc on 5:24 pm on Dec. 6, 2001

Old news... been fixed with newest drivers. It doesn't represent their hardware in any way or form.

GF Ti500 - great card, very fast, if not the fastest card on the market. It's based on one year old tech and is only DX8 compatible. Most expensive card you can buy.

Radeon 8500- great card, very fast. New tech based on DX 8.1. Drivers are fair(XP) to good(98) and will only get better. This card has only been out for a month and is cheaper than the competition's flagship product.

Each card has pluses and minuses, arguing which is better is sort of fultile.

So GF2/3 users should relax, you have a very good card. And don't worry, if OFP adds Truform, we'll post the screenies for ya

<span id='postcolor'>

you're incorrect that GF3 Ti500 doesnt support DX8.1 and yes arguing which is better is certainly futile, its a matter fo opiion, apples and oranges people apples and oranges.

[Desloc 0]

Sorry, I was refering to DX 8.1 pixel shaders...

http://www.nvnews.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002164

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1504&p=3

Yes, the GF3 Ti500 is DX8.1 compliant.

[MrLaggy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from WisdoM on 12:28 am on Dec. 7, 2001

you're incorrect that GF3 Ti500 doesnt support DX8.1 <span id='postcolor'>

The GF3 does not have support the DX8.1 pixel shaders that the Radeon 8500 supports, and that's by far the greatest change between the two DX versions. Even the Voodoo-2 "supports" DX8.1, in that it can run DX8.1 games provided they have fallbacks to handle such a brain-dead chip, but it's certainly not a DX8.1 chip because it can't run any pixel shaders or vertex shaders, let alone the DX8.1 pixel shaders.

That said, I stand by what I said earlier, that there's so little difference between DX8.1 and DX8 (when compared to the difference between DX8 and DX7, or DX7 and DX6), that the GF3 and Radeon 8500 can be considered to be from the same generation of chips.

[Ijustwannaknow 0]

What chick?

I bought the ati 8500 because its bad ass.

[WisdoM 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Desloc on 5:24 pm on Dec. 6, 2001

Old news... been fixed with newest drivers. It doesn't represent their hardware in any way or form.

GF Ti500 - great card, very fast, if not the fastest card on the market. It's based on one year old tech and is only DX8 compatible. Most expensive card you can buy.

Radeon 8500- great card, very fast. New tech based on DX 8.1. Drivers are fair(XP) to good(98) and will only get better. This card has only been out for a month and is cheaper than the competition's flagship product.

Each card has pluses and minuses, arguing which is better is sort of fultile.

So GF2/3 users should relax, you have a very good card. And don't worry, if OFP adds Truform, we'll post the screenies for ya

<span id='postcolor'>

I've seen screenies from Cheater-Strike, and IMHO, it looks like s**t

[Hasha 2]

Agree, it looks s**t with the guns all bloated and the filters in the Radeon is all messed up, hard to explain in words but you must see it for yourself in the review here: <a href="http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/vidcards/index.x?pg=1

and" target="_blank">http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/vidcards/index.x?pg=1

and</a> the TOTALLY MESSED UP SMOOTHVISION:

www.sharkyextreme.com Radeon Review.

In summary, the Ti200 is the best and Radeon 8500 is another messed up silicon chip from ATidiots.