ArmA 2 OA - the Dead Zone issue... ( SOLVED - sort of ...)

[George_Smiley 17]

 Heli FM question.

( I could bury this question in the "proper" sub but ... I'm just going to start right here. till it gets moved..)

 

Is there a Mod that removes the @#$%@#$@#%! Dead Zone the heli Flight Model in Arma 2 OA ?

 

>>>> Solution:

Set up a secondary program that converts JOY STICK outputs to MOUSE.

Then set up PITCH and ROLL to use the MOUSE outputs.

 

I have done this with JoyToKey BUT... it has a bug / feature that nerfs the controls for some reason.

Flying around Chernogosk all of a sudden in certain parts of the town the controls just disappear,

sometimes they come back. It is very strange.

 

The Dead Zone is GONE !  and aiming is much much better.

 

To test the Dead Zone do this:

 

Hover facing a wall. Then do very small ( I mean small ) pitch up and down, at some point you will get out

of the Dead Zone and the heli will move.  ( This is without JoytoKey !!! ) . The Dead Zone is small but very

noticeable when you are zoomed in trying to snipe a BMP with the AH-6 from a few hundred meters. 

Also landing is a pain in the tail rotor if you are  trying for precision. ( A long stick extension helps this a ton! )

 

JoyToKey has shown me the light BUT it's got a bug... so no dice. Also JoyToKey has Dead Zone built in

so you have to TURN IT OFF !

 

>>>>>> End of solution.

 

( and the lack of actual visual feed back

from the response to the applied curve on the sticks. )

 

My back ground is dabbling in Fight Sims, RC plane heli flying and tiny bit of IRL fixed wing flight.

Arma2, RoF, DCS, RCDP. PicaSim etc.

 

I fly the LB,first person, in Chernogorsk a lot, with my RC controller, and ...  head tracking. ( woo! )

( shameless plug here: https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/releases/tag/opentrack-2023.3.0   )

 

The micro adjusting while trying to do roof top landings etc is painful with the DZ.

( compared with Arma 3 :  I can land in my sleep in A3 ( standard FM mode ...)

 

Why not move to Arma3? 'cos I love Arma 2 and I love Cherno...

 

Please feel free to move this post to the right sub forum.

 

"To fly is to life."

 

Cheers. :- )

 

 

[dalber24 151]

You must have something misconfigured, or something wrong with your controller, I don't have dead zone... in fact, I don't remember ever seeing dead zone in a helicopter, in A2.

[George_Smiley 17]

21 hours ago, dalber24 said:

You must have something misconfigured, or something wrong with your controller, I don't have dead zone... in fact, I don't remember ever seeing dead zone in a helicopter, in A2.

 

WAIT : I just re read your post.

 

You are correct, there is no DZ control in the game BUT there is built in DZ.  As in: baked into the game.  As in it's not adjustable like in A3.

 

 

In game right now. There is DZ. You might not be able to detect it but I sure as heck can. 

Been in sim for thousands of hours easy.

 

"

class JoysticksList
{
    class Joystick1
    {
        guid="1F301BF0-14FE-11EF-8002-444553540000";
        name="ART ";
        offset=256;
        isXInput=0;
        sensitivity[]={1,1,1,0.1,0.1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0.1,0.1,1,1,1};
        mode="Custom";
    };
};

"

 

look right to you. Do you even know what that means?  because I would like to know.

So far the the first six are my controls.  Roll.Pitch.Thrust. nothing.nothing.Yaw.

the three 1's after that? Maybe you can explain. And then: why repeat them ?

 

Thanks for explaining!

 

Oh yeah and if you want to talk about my the DZ being built into my gear,

well I get zero DZ in DIview.exe .

Now if I was flying with a HappyJoy "Air Master" DXZ 3000 GTR Super Turbo.... well you would be right.

But I ain't.

 

Let me in on the secrets.

 

Cheers!

 

George.

[dalber24 151]

I don't know, mate, I just know that I don't know, maybe I should say... so luckily it never happened to me!?
 

 I also have many hours in simulators, in fact I have many hours in Black Shark and A10C and in my DCS rig I have a Virpil (in case you're wondering, I never tried it in ArmA, in fact I never would.)
 

 But over the years I had many generic joysticks which I used in ArmA and yes many of them were horrible experiences, I did feel that there was DZ but for a question of them being rubbish controls, but I also tried my old X52 and the one I currently use for a question of comfort and practicality, a Saitek AV8R-03; With the logitech if I had some problem if I remember correctly to configure something, I don't remember what... but no problem with DZ, the same with the saitek, it works well for me, in the game it translates to totally linear, I don't know what to tell you...
 With generic joysticks it did happen to me, but I always attributed it to the fact that they were really bad joysticks (garbage).

 So if it works perfectly with the X52 and the AV8R, for me it was always a problem with the previous joysticks that were bad, which they were in fact.

In my case that is the experience I have had, I don't know what else to tell you about it.

saitek
        offset=512;
        isXInput=0;
        sensitivity[]={0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49535564,10.000001,1,1,1,1,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49535564,10.000001,1,1,1,1};

 

logitech
        offset=256;
        isXInput=0;
        sensitivity[]={0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,1,1,1,1,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,1,1,1,1};


You also have the sensitivity line.
joystickSensitivity[]=

if you want to change any value, feel free to do so, just change the value, save the file, then write protect it, then the game even if it wants to change it it, won't be able to, then it should read the value you put in.
I used this when I wanted to force some setting that the game didn't like.

Cheers

[George_Smiley 17]

2 hours ago, dalber24 said:

I don't know, mate, I just know that I don't know, maybe I should say... so luckily it never happened to me!?
 

 I also have many hours in simulators, in fact I have many hours in Black Shark and A10C and in my DCS rig I have a Virpil (in case you're wondering, I never tried it in ArmA, in fact I never would.)
 

 But over the years I had many generic joysticks which I used in ArmA and yes many of them were horrible experiences, I did feel that there was DZ but for a question of them being rubbish controls, but I also tried my old X52 and the one I currently use for a question of comfort and practicality, a Saitek AV8R-03; With the logitech if I had some problem if I remember correctly to configure something, I don't remember what... but no problem with DZ, the same with the saitek, it works well for me, in the game it translates to totally linear, I don't know what to tell you...
 With generic joysticks it did happen to me, but I always attributed it to the fact that they were really bad joysticks (garbage).

 So if it works perfectly with the X52 and the AV8R, for me it was always a problem with the previous joysticks that were bad, which they were in fact.

In my case that is the experience I have had, I don't know what else to tell you about it.

saitek
        offset=512;
        isXInput=0;
        sensitivity[]={0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49535564,10.000001,1,1,1,1,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49535564,10.000001,1,1,1,1};

 

logitech
        offset=256;
        isXInput=0;
        sensitivity[]={0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,1,1,1,1,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,0.49999994,1,1,1,1};


You also have the sensitivity line.
joystickSensitivity[]=

if you want to change any value, feel free to do so, just change the value, save the file, then write protect it, then the game even if it wants to change it it, won't be able to, then it should read the value you put in.
I used this when I wanted to force some setting that the game didn't like.

Cheers

 

 

Right. I see. Darn so you can't explain the numbers. Ok.

 

Before I started using my RC controller ( which I use now ) I was building my own full size sticks.

Using MMJoy and Atmega with hall sensors. It was pretty easy to make a decent basic stick. 600mm extension.

( with 8mm sealed bearings and steel shafts and frame etc, frankly it is "super duty", I should rebuild it... and so smooth to use..)

 

The easiest way to check for DZ is to get in a Heli, hover, lock zoomed in, and then try lining up ground targets.

( I can "feel" the DZ... some kind of weirdo magic...)

 

Logitech 3D pro have DZ built in.  ( what the @#$%@# ! ) it took me a year or so to understand. ( being a new to simming back then )

I had the MCU board wired up to my new stick and wondered why it was so bad, then I found DIview. Oh... right.

 

To be honest your average pilot will not care about the DZ in game. It's mostly invisible to basic flying.

But.... if you want to be a sniper in the  LB with the mini guns and stick...  using the mouse is much

easier. It's wildly more forgiving to fly heli with a mouse too. so most people just don't give a rats ass.

 

mmm... ok cool, well thanks for taking the time to report in. I might sound a bit crabby ( I am some times...)

but I am genuine !

I love flying... and Arma2 is the best overall basic old DirectX flight sim, that is not a study sim or major

pain in the ass to learn,  it looks good, works fine and actually feels good in 1st person view with Htracking.

I have returned to it quite a few times... and I am a much much better pilot now, way better.

 

Hey have you seen a "gymkahna" mission for heli's ? ( it's like a skills test mission .)  With cool things to fly

around etc. I have been trying to make one in the mission editor but get distracted.... so far I have just done lines of buildings

etc.... darn I should really finish one and post it.  Like a civil one, not military.  Land here, limbo there, fly through the hoops.

I spose TOH is the one for that... never tried it.

 

Whoops wrote a book. Sorry.

 

PS Oh, yeah, Virpil looks like nice gear but it's waaaay out of my price range and I can make my own stick that is just as good or

even better ( zero centre detente... ) , the thing that virpil does do waaaaaaaay better than me is button density...  but

actually if I used 3D printer...  my stick was designed for WW1 and it had like 8 buttons on the stick, sometimes only 2...

zoom and fire... mate.

 

Gotta dash.

 

Cheers!

 

[Xiea 1]

Yeah, I totally feel your pain with the dead zone in Arma 2's heli flight model—it makes landing on rooftops way harder than it should be. I’ve flown a bit in Arma 2, but mostly stick to Arma 3 because the flight model there is way smoother, especially with the standard FM mode. I’ve tried tweaking the sensitivity in Arma 2, but it still feels off, especially when you’re used to more responsive sims like DCS. I get why you want to stick with Arma 2 though, Cherno has its own vibe that Arma 3 just can’t replicate.

[George_Smiley 17]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:14 AM, Xiea said:

Yeah, I totally feel your pain with the dead zone in Arma 2's heli flight model—it makes landing on rooftops way harder than it should be. I’ve flown a bit in Arma 2, but mostly stick to Arma 3 because the flight model there is way smoother, especially with the standard FM mode. I’ve tried tweaking the sensitivity in Arma 2, but it still feels off, especially when you’re used to more responsive sims like DCS. I get why you want to stick with Arma 2 though, Cherno has its own vibe that Arma 3 just can’t replicate.

 

Hey  there.  I missed your post. Sorrry.

I am doing a ton of ArmA 2 flying,  last night I was doing rooftop landing practise and yeah I seem

to be ignoring the dead zone.  I have my control sensitivity at dead center. 1 I think. Also long stick extension...

This helps a ton. Also a decent collective. I made mine the other week and wow, it's amazing. I am now working

out the sink rate and recovery so I can aim, descend and essentially land like a feather. It's cool when I get just right.

someone actually mad a darn good no frills heli sim and stuffed into a mil sim.  I love flying around Chernogorsk.

 

Check my youtube now and then, I have things to create to put up. When I get my editing skills online...

 

Cheers! 

 

George.

 

PS. Just did some heli "aiming" with the stick and yes. Darn DEAD ZONE is def still doing it's DZ thing...

(  When flying along trying to aim at something I always micro adjust UP then DOWN repeat etc and it's super hard to

to keep on target. This is the DZ ...  If you aim outside of the DZ then for a few miliseconds you get NON DZ aiming... then

you end up back in the DZ... so yeah... bummer. )  Mate.

 

[George_Smiley 17]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:14 AM, Xiea said:

Yeah, I totally feel your pain with the dead zone in Arma 2's heli flight model—it makes landing on rooftops way harder than it should be. I’ve flown a bit in Arma 2, but mostly stick to Arma 3 because the flight model there is way smoother, especially with the standard FM mode. I’ve tried tweaking the sensitivity in Arma 2, but it still feels off, especially when you’re used to more responsive sims like DCS. I get why you want to stick with Arma 2 though, Cherno has its own vibe that Arma 3 just can’t replicate.

 

Hi there. I am just alerting you to a possible work around to the Horrible DEAD ZONE in ArmA 2 OA.

 

Set up a secondary program that converts JOY STICK outputs to MOUSE.

Then set up PITCH and ROLL to use the MOUSE outputs.

 

I have done this with JoyToKey BUT... it has a bug / feature that nerfs the controls for some reason.

Flying around Chernogosk all of a sudden in certain parts of the town the controls just disappear,

sometimes they come back. It is very strange.

 

The Dead Zone is GONE !  and aiming is much much better.

 

To test the Dead Zone do this:

 

Hover facing a wall. Then do very small ( I mean small ) pitch up and down, at some point you will get out

of the Dead Zone and the heli will move.  ( This is without JoytoKey !!! ) . The Dead Zone is small but very

noticeable when you are zoomed in trying to snipe a BMP with the AH-6 from a few hundred meters. 

Also landing is a pain in the tail rotor if you are  trying for precision. ( A long stick extension helps this a ton! )

 

JoyToKey has shown me the light BUT it's got a bug... so no dice. Also JoyToKey has Dead Zone built in

so you have to TURN IT OFF !

 

looking for a better program....

 

Good luck !

 

George.

 

[dalber24 151]

14 hours ago, George_Smiley said:

Hi there. I am just alerting you to a possible work around to the Horrible DEAD ZONE in ArmA 2 OA.

 

Set up a secondary program that converts JOY STICK outputs to MOUSE.

Then set up PITCH and ROLL to use the MOUSE outputs.

 

I have done this with JoyToKey

No @George_Smiley , I told you to use that program to bind keys, if you want one for mouse, I use this one

https://sourceforge.net/projects/vjoystick/
 

With joytokey you will have that problem because it is paid, you have to pay for a license.

So use VJOY.

or you can also use:
https://andersmalmgren.github.io/FreePIE/

GHOST.-

[George_Smiley 17]

6 hours ago, dalber24 said:

No @George_Smiley , I told you to use that program to bind keys, if you want one for mouse, I use this one

https://sourceforge.net/projects/vjoystick/
 

With joytokey you will have that problem because it is paid, you have to pay for a license.

So use VJOY.

or you can also use:
https://andersmalmgren.github.io/FreePIE/

GHOST.-

 

JoyToKey does actually work ( mapping joy stick to mouse ) BUT there is a BUG in it that somehow kicks off when I fly over certain parts of Chernogorsk. Which is VERY WEIRD.

But I have tested this many many times. WHY  ???? It's strange. I can fly around in Cherno fine BUT if I fly over the churhc... the controls lock up.

So JoytoKey would have been fine if it didn't do this.

 

Ah VJoy.... right. I should have guessed. I used to use that ages ago. Right oh. Cheers big ears.

 

Try try try again...

 

:- )

 

George.

 

PS. The fact of the matter is that YES you can get rid of the DEAD ZONE. and yes it does make a  difference in ArmA.

 

 

 

 

 

[George_Smiley 17]

The weirdest thing:

 

I have been trying very hard to get the Joy stick to mouse working.

I have tried various solutions.

 

The only one that works at all. Is JoyToKey...

 

So try this for weird:

 

The joy to mouse software works. Almost all of them work. The joy stick controls the mouse. Works. OK.

 

BUT if I start up ArmA 2 OA  and go into a Map and the fly over a certain point on the map... the joy to mouse  stops operating.

The mouse still works, so I can use the actual mouse but no the joy to mouse. If I ESC out of the scenario then the joy to mouse

is still working. If I go back into the scenarion it's dead. If I RESTART the sceanrio it works until I fly over some part of the map and it dies again.

 

This is the weirdest software glitch I have ever seen in my life. I have no words.

 

All the other Joy to mouse solutions will operate the mouse BUT will not do very much in game, It's unusable slow or just nothing. Out of the game it's fine.

 

Just what the heck is going on here?

 

I really want this to work and it does , sort of... Using the Joy to mouse gets rid of the DEADZONE and that makes shooting stuff way better. Trust me.

 

DARN IT !

 

George.

[dalber24 151]

If this is the only one that works for you, then try an older version.

[Tunnel Rush 0]

@dalber24, can you suggest other better version

[George_Smiley 17]

21 hours ago, dalber24 said:

If this is the only one that works for you, then try an older version.

 

I could try that. The problem is very very very weird.  It only happens when in the game engine, when out in the UI the problem is gone.

What on earth could do that ? Overlapping memory spaces ? 

 

It could be the church in Cherno... when I fly near it the controls freeze ( with Joytokey ). Churches are cool I suppose. Not my kind of thing though...

 

And all the other programs just fail to make arma do the joystick to mouse thing... Even though it works in the UI....

 

Bummer man. This was supposed to be the way forwards. 

Will try it again in a few days... I'm a bit over it right now.

 

George.

[George_Smiley 17]

It's WORKING !

 

I uninstalled JoytoKey , restarted pc, installed old Joytokey ( had bad deadzone built in... duh... ) uninstalled, then reinstalled the latest version ( the first one I installed...) and it now works.

The controls do not freeze up when flying over that Church in Chernogorsk...

 

No idea what that was all about but it seems to work now.

Long range sniping with the  AH-6 is a GO !

 

Just spent the evening hosing down the enemy tanks with the miniguns till they "cook off".

Still no turrets tossed.... is that a mod yet ?

Big explosions with the hydras. Boom ! and don't come back... 

 

So... bottom line:

 

JoytoKey maps the joy stick to the mouse ( assign mouse to heli controls ) which then  bypasses the deadzone built into the game. 

 

I'm using Joytokey version 7 on a windows 7 machine.

 

AND the mouse controls in ArmA 2 control the joy to mouse effect so you can have FAST or SlOW response by fiddling the mouse controls. 

Even smoothing ! ha ha ha ha... happy landings !  Fun !

 

So far so good. Fingers crossed. Cool.

No idea why it works now... magic?

 

George.

 

PS Oh my I'm a sergeant now... will I get commissioned ... ?

[George_Smiley 17]

21 hours ago, Tunnel Rush said:

@dalber24, can you suggest other better version

 

ahem. 

I seemed to get JoytoKey to work properly .

So  you can map to mouse getting rid of the dead zone and you can adjust how sensitive your pitch and roll controls are.

Worth a crack mate.

 

:- )

 

George.