Editing/adding mods to remove certain gear options?

[jubuttib 0]

Hello, I've been playing Antistasi (the latest community edition) with a fair few of the faction mods included with some friends of mine, and in our latest campaign we've run into a slight issue. Our Occupant is set to 3CB Cold War US and the invader to 3CB Cold War USSR, and the Soviet's are all equipped with immensely effective lvl5 body armor, all of them (for what it's worth, it's the 6B5-19 armor from RHSAFRF mod).

 

From what I've read, it is quite the capable armor in real life too, and we don't exactly mind that, but having them equipped on literally every single soldier (apart from maybe pilots) feels just plain off, especially when combined with the poor effectiveness of the M16 against it (you can end up dumping a mag into a single soldier from close range without them going down, unless you aim for the face), and is also in stark contrast to the US forces who often only have a few guys wearing body armor in a group. If it was the Soviet special forces or just a few of the units in a group, then sure, that's fine.

 

Is there a way we could limit the prevalence of the body armor a little bit?

[jubuttib 0]

On second thought it might be more of an issue with the ammo/armor behavior, because I just tested things in the virtual armory and some 300 M16 rounds, split 50/50 between ball and AP ammo, didn't drop a guy wearing the 6B5-19 vest, while half a dozen rounds from an AK-74 with ball ammo dropped them, and 2-3 AK-74 AP rounds were also enough. The M16 works just fine against the weaker PASG vest of the US forces.

 

 

[Harzach 2517]

 Are you using ACE?

 

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/1673456286/3827536762636762535/

[jubuttib 0]

4 hours ago, Harzach said:

 Are you using ACE?

 

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/1673456286/3827536762636762535/

Yes, though with a few options turned off, lemme check.

 

Also tested the AKMN with standard 7.62x39mm ball, same result as the 5.56x45mm guns, i.e. almost no effect. SCAR-H was 3 shots with ball and 2-3 with AP, SVDM was 3 with ball and 2 with AP.

 

EDIT: In the ACE Advanced Ballistics options I've turned off Muzzle Velocity Variation and Ammo Temperature Simulation. The rest are on. Couldn't find anything else that could make armor wonky elsewhere either.

 

Full modlist is as follows:

3CB Factions Steam http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1673456286

ace Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=463939057

ACE Compat - RHS AFRF Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=773131200

ACE Compat - RHS USAF Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=773125288

ACE Compat - RHS: GREF Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=884966711

ACE Compat - RHS: SAF Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2174495332

Antistasi - The Mod Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2867537125

CBA_A3 Steam http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=450814997

CUP Terrains - Core Steam http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=583496184

Enhanced Movement Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=333310405

Enhanced Movement Rework Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2034363662

RHSAFRF Steam http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843425103

RHSGREF Steam http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843593391

RHSSAF Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843632231

RHSUSAF Steam http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843577117

Virolahti - Valtatie 7 Steam http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1926513010

 

EDIT2: Noticed that it was a discussion that you linked, not the mod itself. So barrel length, eh? Will try.

[jubuttib 0]

Barrel length might have helped marginally? The AP 5.56x45mm rounds now can drop a guy after like 15-20 shots.

 

Testing around, it would appear that magazines/ammo types by ACE (didn't think it should add ammo, but it said so in the bottom for one of them...), Bohemia or 3CB are more likely to work, mostly at least, and ammo added by RHS mods doesn't. Like AKMN with an RHS mag doesn't kill anyone, but 3CB mag with the same claimed bullet type, or a basic Bohemia mag will.

[Harzach 2517]

Supposedly, all 3CB assets are cosmetic, no config changes, so they should be identical to their parent RHS items.

 

Running ACE, RHS, and Compats, with ACE ballistics OFF, using an M16a4, I shot a unit wearing a 6B45 (max ballistic protection) and a 6B5 (slightly less than max) with:

• default 5.56 tracer
• ACE m995 AP
• RHS 855a1 EPR
• RHS mk262 mod 1
• RHS m318 mod 0

With the 6B45, I was consistently downing the unit with ~7 rounds, no matter the mag used.

With the 6B5, it was ~6.

The mk262 would sometimes take one fewer round.

 

I tested enough to get a result, so I wouldn't call the results comprehensive.

 

I then did the same with ACE ballistics ON and all options enabled. I saw no appreciable difference, though sometimes I needed one fewer round than normal, maybe due to ACE muzzle velocity variation.

 

I'll test again with 3CB, but it might take a day or so.

[jubuttib 0]

Massive thanks for the help!

 

You can see in the video above which ammo I used for my initial testing. I'll quickly double check my AK-47/AKMN ammo results and post them here for reference.

 

EDIT: Using the IDs so that we can be certain which things are actually being used:

 

Armor 6B5-19, no uniform.

ACE Ballistics on, with barrel length and bullet trace effect on, muzzle velocity variation and ammo temperature simulation off.

 

Test 1:

AKMN rhs_weap_akmn

30rnd AKM Bakelite 57-N-231 rhs_30Rnd_762x39mm_bakelite (RHS)

57-N-231 rhs_B_762x39_Ball

Result: 2 mags dumped, no effect (using ACE Medical I only see lots of bruises).

 

Test 2:

AKMN rhs_weap_akmn

7.62mm 30rnd AK-12 Mag 30Rnd_762x39_AK12_Mag_F (Bohemia)

Ball with reload tracer B_762x39_Ball_Green_F

Result: 3 shots to drop a target

 

Test 3:

AKMN rhs_weap_akmn

75Rnd RPK 57-N-231 rhs_75Rnd_762x39mm (RHS)

57-N-231 rhs_B_762x39_Ball

Result: Full mag dump, no effect

 

Test 4:

AKMN rhs_weap_akmn

75Rnd RPK 57-N-231 (2x Green Tracer) UK3CB_RPK_75rnd_762x39_G (3CB)

7.62mm with reload tracer UK3CB_762x39_Ball_Green

Result: 3 shots to drop a target

 

Repeated test with ACE Advanced ballistics turned off, same results. Doesn't seem to be that one causing the issue.

 

EDIT2: Another quick test, rhs_B_762x39_Ball_89 drops a target with 3-10 shots (high variance). Wonder what the difference between that and the normal rhs_B_762x39_Ball_89 is...

[jubuttib 0]

More testing, M16A2 this time. Same settings as before, with ACE ballistics on.

 

Test 1:

M16A2 UK3CB_M16A2

30Rnd STANAG M855 (No Tracer) UK3CB_M16_30rnd_556x45 (3CB)

5.56mm UK3CB_556x45_Ball_Red

Result: Mag dump, no effect

 

Test 2:

M16A2 UK3CB_M16A2

30Rnd STANAG M855 rhs_mag_30Rnd_556x45_M855_Stanag (RHS)

M855 rhs_ammo_556x45_M855_Ball

Result: Mag dump, no effect

 

Test 3:

M16A2 UK3CB_M16A2

30Rnd STANAG M855A1 rhs_mag_30Rnd_556x45_M855A1_Stanag (RHS)

M855A1 EPR rhs_ammo_556x45_M855A1_Ball

Result: Mag dump, no effect

 

Test 4:

M16A2 UK3CB_M16A2

5.56 mm 30Rnd Reload Tracer (Yellow) Mag 30Rnd_556x45_Stanag (Bohemia)

B_556x45_Ball

Result: Mag dump, no effect

 

Test 5:

M16A2 UK3CB_M16A2

5.56 mm 30Rnd Mag (M995 AP) ACE_30Rnd_556x45_Stanag_M995_AP_mag

5.56 mm AP ACE_556x45_Ball_M995_AP

Result: Mag dump, no effect.

 

Test 6:

M16A2 UK3CB_M16A2

20Rnd STANAG Mk262 Mod 1 rhs_mag_20Rnd_556x45_Mk262_Stanag

Mk262 rhs_ammo_556x45_Mk262_Ball

Result: 3 shots to drop a target

 

EDIT: Only semi-consistent thing I've noticed so far, is that you need to have a "hit" value of over 9 on the bullet to get through. The 57-N-231 89, which works well, is hit 9.8, many of the 5.45x39mm rounds on the AK-74 guns that work are even over 10, while the 57-N-231 that doesn't work is 8.5, most of the 5.56x45mm rounds are 9, except for the RHS Mk262 Mod 1, which is 10.3 and can penetrate the armor (ACE Mk262 is 9, and doesn't work).

[jubuttib 0]

Probably a good idea to also test with and without ACE Medical turned on at some point. The bullets with hit of over 9 are causing wounds and dropping the target, while the ones with 9 or under are only causing minor, medium and major bruises and contusions. 200+ major bruises should probably do more than just hurt a bit.

[rautamiekka 15]

You're using RHS, that's the problem; RHS vests are stupidly powerful, it's very common a 5.56mm NATO takes 15-30 shots.

[Harzach 2517]

53 minutes ago, rautamiekka said:

RHS vests are stupidly powerful

 

Sort of, but not really. The thing with RHS is that they have implemented their own armor/penetration system. I stopped using RHS years ago because of this. It was basically impossible to kill a T-90 with a Slammer. Not sure if anything is different now, but I'm hoping to do more testing later.

[rautamiekka 15]

18 minutes ago, Harzach said:

 

The thing with RHS is that they have implemented their own armor/penetration system.

Well something is obviously wrong no matter how it's twisted.

[jubuttib 0]

21 hours ago, rautamiekka said:

You're using RHS, that's the problem; RHS vests are stupidly powerful, it's very common a 5.56mm NATO takes 15-30 shots.

This particular problem goes way beyond that, when 10 mag dumps don't drop a target with some 5.56mm rounds, others drop them in 3 shots with different kinds of 5.56mm, most 5.45x39mm and 7.62x39mm only take a few rounds etc. (From what I understand the version of the armor specified is supposed to have a 4+mm thick steel plate on the front and a titanium plate on the back, so I would except rounds below a certain power level to be pretty much completely inefficient against it too.)

 

I have now "fixed" the issue by adding the Mk262 Mod 1 STANAG mag that was effective to our arsenal, meaning we can use the 5.56 guns we have available against the Russians.

 

Actually I kinda feel like we've gotten sidetracked from the original question (though it was an interesting rabbit hole): Is there a way I can edit the mods/make custom versions to change what gear is available etc.?