Civil war mod?

[joshnolan225 0]

Hi everyone, i love the American civil war and i was wondering about possibly starting a mod based on a particular civil war unit with addons, artillery, ships? i know about major bvattles but i would need a team of talented guys who could help, but this is my idea......

a union infantry company that is sent to fight in South Carolina against the Confederacy. the unit fights its way up to richmond, VA and yadada...... the units that would be made would be an infantryman, both sides, officer, artillery soldier, marine, and the weapons would be the colt 1856 service revolver, M1861 .58 caliber rifled musket, M1842 .69 caliber percussion musketand maybe a saber, Dahlgren 12- pounder howitzer, and the 10 inch mortar, and a 32 inch cannon, and definatly a bayonet.

i would really like to know about this and if you would like to help, i would like to have you.

thanks

Josh

[Guest BratZ]

Can't have any realistic pre WW2 (WW2 used horses also)

without any horses

Also I think the bayonets would be unusable

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BratZ @ Jan. 29 2003,23:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can't have any realistic pre WW2 (WW2 used horses also)

without any horses

Also I think the bayonets would be unusable<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, the Napoleonic mod has the same problem.

Has anyone had a go at making a working horse using the motorcyle class and the new custom animations for the legs?

[joshnolan225 0]

i carefully looked over the problems that the napoleonic mod was having, with the bayonets i recall a G8 addon with a itatlian policeman using a riot stick with the strokegun action, im not sure because im not a gifted .cpper how that would work. i know that the AI cant use the strokegun action, but this was my idea. use the bayonet as the sidearm weapon, making it interchangeable with the rifle, seeing as how AI auto switches to sidearm at close range. now maybe a script or such would allow a strokeaction to be used with the bayonet as sidearm on the AI. sounds confusing yeah. Horses...... i have no idea, i was hoping yall could help me with that...

josh

[desantnik 0]

I was thinking about the bayonet idea. Why not have it as a mortar round? Like have it attached as a mortar round with the soldier performing the same action as a mortar guy. When he fires, maybe a gifted ccp'er would be able to make the firing action into the strokegun move.

[USMC Sniper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (desantnik @ Jan. 30 2003,03:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was thinking about the bayonet idea. Why not have it as a mortar round? Like have it attached as a mortar round with the soldier performing the same action as a mortar guy. When he fires, maybe a gifted ccp'er would be able to make the firing action into the strokegun move.  <span id='postcolor'>

Considering there is an anim editor out, howabout someone makes a thrust anim for a bayonet?

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Jan. 30 2003,04:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Considering there is an anim editor out, howabout someone makes a thrust anim for a bayonet?<span id='postcolor'>

Back when there was that thread about the animation editor, I kept bringing this up over and over and over...but nobody seems to want to (bad pun alert) take a stab at it.

I agree 100%... I hope the Nepoleonic mod team starts messing with this editor to see what they can do. Even if they have to make it basically act as a very short range bullet with "stab" ammo or something silly like that that they switch to when the enemy is within less then a meter range, I think it would be better then nothing.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[RMATICH 0]

I would love to see a Civil War addon. Also do not forget about WW 1 addons. Those would be sweet as well.

[pzvg 0]

The problems with Blackpowder addons, ie; Civil/Napoleonic war addons.

No Horses, While I can make a horse, even make one that moves, I haven't been able to put a rider on one.

No bayonets, even with the animation coded in, the AI would not use it, In fact, the AI doesn't seem too fond of marching steadfastly into enemy fire, which ties in with my last point.

To look even close to actual battle conditions in those wars requires a minimum of 100 troops per side, moving in tight formation, add 1 volley of fire and you bring the average midlevel PC to it's knees.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE these wars, but recreating them in OFP is going to be difficult,to say the least.

[joshnolan225 0]

the civil war was one of Americas first wars were you see the emergance of samll unit tactics. In South Carolina, a majority of the fighting was done by companies and platoons. the only real regimental stuff was storming the forts in the charleston harbor. about one platoon would engage about a platoon due to the lack of space and open land like up north. South Carolina has few treeless areas and a majority of the fighting was done in the swamps. i have no doubt that a good civil war mod team could overcome these problems.

[pzvg 0]

The average size of a company in the Civil war was 300-400 men, according to Ambrose and Shelby Foote.

Also,"small unit tactics" in the black powder era bear no resemblance to modern day.

And quite frankly, OFP's AI troopers aren't up to it, you can't get these guys to stand and deliver.

So you've got your work cut out for you,good luck mate.

[desantnik 0]

Why not just make individual units with setunitpos "up" and then have a waypoint with stealth. It works for my riot units advancing in a line slowly so why not with these guys

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

Shelby Foote is wrong.

A company was the smallest unit composed of 50-100 men. It was commanded by a Captain. It had a letter designation (Company A, B, C)

A battalion was composed of 5-9 companies. It was commanded by a Lt. Colonel. They were independent of regiments.

A regiment was 10 or more companies. I have seen regiments with 12 companies. It was commanded by a full Colonel. They were independent of battalions.

a brigade was a group of regiments commanded by a General.

I would love to replay Bull Run (1861 & 1862) or Chancellorsville (1863).

The problems I see is that soldiers did not shoot lying down with their enfield or springfield .58 caliber muskets. This would have to be scripted so that they would not lay down.

Forget horses and cavalry. I would stick to infantry and maybe artillery.

Since you can't have hundreds and thousands of men on the screen, a squad of 10 men would essentially be a company to scale things down.

(descendent of Confederate soldiers from: 12th SC Infantry, 9th Florida Infantry, 4th Florida Infantry, 15th SC Infantry, 1st Florida Cavalry, 7th Florida Infantry)

[pzvg 0]

Shelby Foote is wrong?

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA,

so tell me,how many books have YOU written on the subject?

How many times has Stephen Ambrose creditted YOU in his books?

<and he's descended from a Civil War Admiral,but who's counting?>

P.S. Ah'm from JuhJaw <real Southern boys will git thet>

so don' be tellin me about "the worr"

[vade_101 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">COMPANY.

The basic unit is the company, commanded by a captain

  100 men = 2 platoons = 4 sections = 8 squads

A company has the following officers (commissioned and non-coms):

  Captain (1), 1st. Lieut. (1),  2nd. Lieut. (1)

  1st Sgt. (1), Sgts. (4) and Corporals (8).

When the company was divided into platoons, the captain commanded one and

the 1st Lt. the other.  There was a sergeant for each section, and a

corporal for each squad.  The 1st Sgt. "ran" the whole company.

BATTALION and REGIMENT.

  Battalions and regiments were formed by organizing companies together.

In the volunteers (Union and Confederate), 10 companies would be organized

together into a regiment.  The regiment was commanded by a colonel. A

regiment has the following staff (one of each):

  Col.; Lt. Col.; Major; Adjutant (1st Lt); Surgeon (maj.);

  Asst Surgeon (capt.); Quartermaster (lieut); Commissary (lieut);

  Sgt-Major; Quartermaster Sgt.

There were also volunteer organizations containing less than 10 companies:

if they contained from 4-8 companies, they were called battalions, and

usually were commanded by a major or lieutenant colonel.

  The (Union) Regular regts organized before the war (1st-10th) were 10

company regiments like the volunteers.  When the NEW Regular regts. were

authorized, a different organization was used. The new Regular regts were

organized 8 companies to a battalion and 2 battalions to the regiment.

Thus new Regular regts contained 16 companies.  These regiments frequently

fought as battalions rather than as single regiments.  However, often the

2nd battalion could not be recruited up to strength, in which case they

fought as a single regiment.

<span id='postcolor'>

By the end of the war the average size of a *battalion* was around 300-400 men

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

pzvg:

Cite the book and page # of Foote's quote. I Doubt he said this.

Companies were not 300 to 400 men in size. Period. If he did say this, he is wrong. He may be referring to Battalions. Several of my ancestors served in a Florida Battalion. This particular unit had 9 companies and 800 men.

Not to toot my horn, but I have written articles on "the subject." I am also in the process of writing book with a colleague that is "on the subject."

I have also been acknowledged in Florida Historian Canter Brown's

In the Midst of All That Makes Life Worth Living": Polk County to 1940 (Tallahassee, 2001).

I don't read books by Foote or get spoon fed by Ken Burns. I read primary sources directly from the horses mouth: The Official Records of the War of the Rebellion.

[pzvg 0]

The official records?

yeah right,let me know what the print date is on those official records.

You ARE tooting your own horn and it's FREAKING annoying to hear, I don't bother to list how many of my relatives fought,

and how many Florida cities were burnt?

I don't publish nor am I overawed by the claim sh*t son, ANY Ahole can write.

Now that you've establihed beyond ANY doubt that you know the size of a Florida volunteer unit, can we hear of the rest of the South? or how about the North?

Or how about we forget about it, until the next I'm visiting the inlaws down in Lake Wales.

Ahhraht?

[Guest BratZ]

But it doesn't matter how many,they won't stand there and let me shoot them!

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

pzvg,

The OR has multiple "print[sic]" dates. It's 128 volumes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You ARE tooting your own horn and it's FREAKING annoying to hear<span id='postcolor'>

If you go back and look, you will see that you had asked me 2 questions.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now that you've established[sic] beyond ANY doubt that you know the size of a Florida volunteer unit, can we hear of the rest of the South? or how about the North?

<span id='postcolor'>

What other units are there? Conscripted? Volunteer units were organized after Special Order 86 was issued in the summer of 1863.

On April 16, 1862, the Confederate Congress passed the first national conscription law in American history.  All white males between 18 and 35, not legally exempt, were declared members of the Confederate Army for a term of three years or until the war ended.  Those who wished to volunteer before being drafted were allowed to do so and to choose their own company.  Those who did not care to enter the service were allowed to provide a substitute from "persons not liable for duty."

Certainly those who enlisted before the law were volunteers. "Volunteer" is a relative term.

Let's not talk about "the North."

[joshnolan225 0]

im back and i was looking over the posts and i see there is some debate. i have no clue how companies, battalions, regiments, and so on will be represented. i can tell you though, that it will not be 400 men on the screen. one of the things i found interesting as i was asking my AP history professer about the subjet was how battles were fought. this is what i learned: each civil war battle was fought on a regimental or battalion basis, meaning that usually one or two battalions or regiments would fight the battle. parts of the combat unit would beused in skirmishes in areas usually around a mile from a main battle, thus making up the battle. while 800-1000 total soldiers on both sides would make up the battlefeild, only maybe 50 each would participate in battle at the same time same exact place. now for seiges, THAT is what took up so many men, 1000s at a time, i plan to stay away from those.

[joshnolan225 0]

oh yeah and i saw a script on some soldiers at G8where they made their roit policemen unable to go prone so.... also breaking up the battles into 3 or 4 missions would greatly reduce the number of men needed on the screen at a time...

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

joshnolan225

Do you have the editing expertise to start this project? I certainly don't, and I was not sure if you did or were looking for an editor to help you.

I like the idea. The major battles were fought on the Corps level (ie. Gettysburg). There were enough minor engagements from picket skirmishes to hit and run raids (Mosby's Rangers).

If you want to have a blast, get Sid Meier's Gettysburg or Antietam.

[joshnolan225 0]

i certainly dont, my main expertise is research and helping out on mods, random stuff. if anyone has an interet, i would like feedback......im pretty convinced on starting this, but to do so, i would need:1- someone who can do a website,a texture artist, scripter, configer, modeller, and a wrp editor, and a sfx guy, icould possibly do it if need be.............

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

Where is the Napoleon MOD site? I have searched but can't findit.

THX

[joshnolan225 0]

its on the opflashpoint.org links area