Helicopter Joystick Control

[kilo3 10]

I've looked around for an answer, but can never find anything useful, so here goes: Why does the joystick not function as a joystick?  Every movement of the controls has a corresponding action in the mechanical systems of the aircraft, yet the joystick setup in ARMA 3 does not represent this.  Moving the joystick one direction has a corresponding action, but backing off a bit does not.  The joystick in the cockpit moves, but the helicopter does not respond to the back-axis movement until you get past the 0 (center) point.  Then, you have to got back past the 0 point again to make a change in the other direction, like a key press.  If I sit idle on the pad, go full left stick (no helicopter movement), then let the stick re-center As soon as I increase collective to take off I slam left with the stick in the center position. WTF, over.  No, that is NOT how 'things are in real aircraft'.

I'm NOT talking about the flight dynamics, or anything else...just the fact that the control movement doesn't actually control the system as it should (and does in just about every other flight sim).  The best relation I can put out there is a steering wheel in a car...every movement has a corresponding action in the mechanical system, which then acts on the environment.  Turn the wheel to the left, the wheels turn towards the left, turn it a hair to the right, and it turns the wheels a hair to the right.  In ARMA 3 it would be like having to return the steering wheel to a 'center' point, then past it to the right in order to have any effect on getting the wheels to go right again.  Am I missing a setting, tweak, or something?  I just want my joystick to work like a real joystick in the game.  As it stands it seems like the joystick is just used to perform key-presses rather than the full use of it's axes.  

 

I'm using a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, TrackIR, and crosswind pedals if it matters any.  I'm not using the TM software for ARMA, just stock detection and joystick button use for the game.  DCS black shark 2 works just fine (though I do have the TM software in use for that).  It seems I'm not the only one with this issue, so some input would be great, (literally).

 

Not:  Throttle, flight dynamics, sensitivity, 'real-aircraft don't have self-centering controls', joystick detection or errors, 'springs aren't realistic", blueberry pie sucks, etc.

 

[beno_83au 1362]

Seems to work just fine for me. Maybe you've got a problem with your setup?

[kilo3 10]

Maybe I do, I just wish I could figure out where.  The in-game controller setup reads full axis movement values, I have no alternate keyboard commands for helicopter flight, my cyclic controls are mapped to the appropriate axes (I think). So it looks like everything is working correctly, but in game it reacts like you would see with key presses-have to backtrack to 0 to negate an input in one direction, then go back across 0 to adjust back the other way...rather than easing back (still above a 0 value) and having a corresponding reduction in control system input.  All works just fine in DCS Black Shark 2.  

[RogoRogo 1]

On 4/27/2020 at 3:12 AM, kilo3 said:

I've looked around for an answer, but can never find anything useful, so here goes: Why does the joystick not function as a joystick?  Every movement of the controls has a corresponding action in the mechanical systems of the aircraft, yet the joystick setup in ARMA 3 does not represent this.  Moving the joystick one direction has a corresponding action, but backing off a bit does not.  The joystick in the cockpit moves, but the helicopter does not respond to the back-axis movement until you get past the 0 (center) point.  Then, you have to got back past the 0 point again to make a change in the other direction, like a key press.  If I sit idle on the pad, go full left stick (no helicopter movement), then let the stick re-center As soon as I increase collective to take off I slam left with the stick in the center position. WTF, over.  No, that is NOT how 'things are in real aircraft'.

I'm NOT talking about the flight dynamics, or anything else...just the fact that the control movement doesn't actually control the system as it should (and does in just about every other flight sim).  The best relation I can put out there is a steering wheel in a car...every movement has a corresponding action in the mechanical system, which then acts on the environment.  Turn the wheel to the left, the wheels turn towards the left, turn it a hair to the right, and it turns the wheels a hair to the right.  In ARMA 3 it would be like having to return the steering wheel to a 'center' point, then past it to the right in order to have any effect on getting the wheels to go right again.  Am I missing a setting, tweak, or something?  I just want my joystick to work like a real joystick in the game.  As it stands it seems like the joystick is just used to perform key-presses rather than the full use of it's axes.  

 

I'm using a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, TrackIR, and crosswind pedals if it matters any.  I'm not using the TM software for ARMA, just stock detection and joystick button use for the game.  DCS black shark 2 works just fine (though I do have the TM software in use for that).  It seems I'm not the only one with this issue, so some input would be great, (literally).

 

Not:  Throttle, flight dynamics, sensitivity, 'real-aircraft don't have self-centering controls', joystick detection or errors, 'springs aren't realistic", blueberry pie sucks, etc.

 

This is two years later, but the answer to the topic is rather simple.

There is no "Pitch (analog)" and "roll (analog)" and "yaw (analog)"keybind entry in ARMA 3. When you move a joystick (in a helicopter the "cyclic"), you ADD input on that axis. Unlike a boolean keybpress (WASD) you can just define the amount of input added (so there is some weird sort of "granularity" instead of timed increments per buttonpress). But when the joystick recenters the input on the axis remains the same.. until you decrease the input "state" via joystick movement in the opposite direction.
That applies to the collective too btw.. it is just less noticeable and less weird in experience.
Same goes for the pedals/tailrotor, again less noticeable, because you either "yaw".. or not.
Because - again - the joystick is not mapped to an actual axis, it is mapped to a keypress input, just with a granular (aka anlog) input device.

So that is the issue on the control/input level - long before there could be any discussion about "flightmodel" (or absence thereof).

Of course this means that in ARMA rotaries (planes too btw) actually fly on rails.. and the overall control experience has nothing to do with how a rotary would feel in control input.
And anyone playing a flightsim (yes, DCS - but any flightsim, sim-lite or study-level and no, War Thunder "sim" is not a flightsim, neither by intent nor by code) will actually struggle, or at least think twice before risking to ruin his fluent control perception.

This is why you have no reaction if you think you "roll the disc".. and will suddenly violently roll left when you add input on the collective.

I took me a while (well.. an actual test of about 30 minutes) to understand that.

Unfortunately ARMA is very odd in that topic overall... see fe a bugreport like this:
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157554

And while it could be argued that... "butbutbutbut everyone will..." "butbutbutbut no one does..." a product is defined by its intent.
So even is the use of granular controls (aka joysticks) for asset control might be a minority segment - you cannot know the relevance of the segment if it is not allowed to exist.
And you can even less define how it would shape the perception of the product's potential.

But ... with Tencent ownership the chances of anything improving in actual mechanics are slim.. very, very, very slim. I'd dare type non-existant.
Not because BHI does not have the competence (they do), or the ability (they do), or the self-expectation (they do) - they just will not be allowed to even think about it.

[Harzach 2507]

1 hour ago, RogoRogo said:

Tencent ownership

 

They're a minority stakeholder with no interest in the Arma franchise.

[resch 10]

If you are using the Advanced Flight Model, try disabling the "Auto Trim" in the game options. Worked for me.