Waypoints

[Doolittle 0]

Hi! I don't understand why people aren't talking about this stuff: combat mode, behaviour, rank, and skill for enemy soldiers.

I was trying to figure out neat stuff you could do with waypoints to make, well, neat stuff.

Like...have an empty BMP nearby & put 3 guys to stand at a Sentry waypoint, the next waypoint being Get In the BMP and the next being Search and Destroy. The effect is, when you come accross enemy, they make a dash for the tank and come after you. The one hitch I have is the soldiers don't run directly for the tank, they stop to shoot at you.

Like....having a unit's first waypoint be Search and Destroy, and the second be Cycle, so that it will continue to just walk around. But I wonder what happens when the unit stops Search and Destroying? How long does it take before the unit stops Searching and Destroying? Once they are done Search & Destroying do they just stand there? Is it good to have the Cycle so they go back to Searching??

What about...having a unit's first waypoint be Move and then Cycle so they go around and around and THEN have another Move after the Cycle, but that is far away so they never get to it (because it Cycles to the first one) BUT have a Switch on the Cycle so that when something happens you can get the unit to go off and do that new Move waypoint.

I noticed if you tell a unit to be Safe at a waypoint and there is a Move/Cycle involved, and if you shoot at the enemy, they get ready to attack, can't find you, and so now they run back and forth between Move/Cycle with guns drawn. Shouldn't they go back to Safe mode (when they hit that Move waypoint) instead?

I was trying to figure out how to get an AI group to run out to the player or go searching for them. These all seem equivalent, in theory:

Unit -> Sentry -> Guard (once it spots the enemy it goes to guard, at which point it is sent out after you, but sentry is there so that the computer doesn't "use" them until you are seen)

Unit -> Move waypoint with Open Fire, Engage Enemy

Unit -> Hold waypoint with Open Fire, Engage Enemy

Unit -> Move waypoint with Hold Fire, Engage Enemy

Unit -> Hold waypoint with Hold Fire, Engage Enemy

Unit -> Guard doesn't seem to be good because if you put everyone on that then they will come running at you from all over the map. Which brings me to: what's with the trigger...West...Detected by East? Does that mean that if the West is ever seen (even outside circle) by the east that are INSIDE that circle then the switch is activated?? But if an East unit outside the circle sees you then the trigger won't work?

And what's with Guarded By East trigger? Seems the units just walk over there...it would be better if there was a way to make them go there if the enemy was detected there.

I guess what I really mean to ask is: hey, I learned scripting first, and it was great and all, loads of fun, but now my new thing is trying to do stuff AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE with the map editor & not scripts. So I'm trying to figure out a way to:

..have the soldiers run over to where they heard the shot come from/where you are attacking from (at the same time shooting as they advance)

..have a tank drive closer to where you are before it blasts you with deadly accuracy a mile away (I made a mission for my brother.....he comes over hill and shoots at troops way down in village & the one tank I put in there blasts him away almost instantly...I need to tone that stuff down)

And what's with fleeing? Ignoring the allowfleeing command...what's some good ranks to put soldiers at?? Do vehicles flee like tanks? Does Lietenant make solders ~stay in the battle~??

A lot of this stuff just requires testing/testing/testing & I can't seem to find anyone's results.

Doolittle

[)=Obi=( 0]

Yep !

These are all good questions around that behaviour thing.

I've searched a formal explanation of these 'theoretical' behaviours without success. Did I (we) miss a part of somethin' or is it really 'fuzzy logic' and every modder has to wander in the realms of testing before coming out with the right one ?

I pray the gods of AI for an little answer that would saves us time (and insults to these idiots AI that .... ) .

[Chris Death 0]

Well, every now and then questions like these popping up,

and almost everytime they getting the right answers.

First: waypoint stuff is explained in the manual, which came

with the game, while scripting isn't. So that's the reason,

why you don't see these questions as often as probably other

ones.

Second: if you want to know more about that, you could use

the search option (*hint - replies in combination with my

username, or RED is also one who replied often the those

questions*).

Ah yeah, and one more: waypoints are already there in the

editor, so are all it's available options (i mean: you don't need

to do some research somewhere else to find out, what's

available).

Changing the behaviour settings will also help you here to

get different results.

~S~ CD

[Chris Death 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Like...have an empty BMP nearby & put 3 guys to stand at a Sentry waypoint, the next waypoint being Get In the BMP and the next being Search and Destroy. The effect is, when you come accross enemy, they make a dash for the tank and come after you. The one hitch I have is the soldiers don't run directly for the tank, they stop to shoot at you.

<span id='postcolor'>

I've given a quick try on your first one:

change the combat setting in the sentry waypoint to: hold fire

leave it at the get in waypoint as: no change

and at the search and destroy waypoint you change it to:

open fire.

~S~ CD

[Ottie 0]

Hello Doolittle,

I must say you have a point, I play OFP from almost the beginning , (original, not the demo period), and from the beginning on the people are focusing on scripting and addon making, but I also wanna know what is possible with the mission editor. And I think the mission editor can be used in far better ways then is done now.

Everybody is focusing on great scripts, how to reinforce, how to move without waypoints etc etc, but there is almost no one that focusses completely on the mission editor. I have tested and played alot with the mission editor and in my opinion the mission editor can do so many things. (guard, sentry waypoints, the usage of game logics etc etc).

I always try to rewrite user made missions that uses script to mission without almost any scripts and I must say it can be done, of course there are scripts that are usefull but mostlty not.

And have you played the complete original campaigns, I think

they are of high quality and almost no scripting.

Ottie

[Chris Death 0]

k got some more time left (i'm at work now) to deal with this

thread:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Like....having a unit's first waypoint be Search and Destroy, and the second be Cycle, so that it will continue to just walk around. But I wonder what happens when the unit stops Search and Destroying? How long does it take before the unit stops Searching and Destroying? Once they are done Search & Destroying do they just stand there? Is it good to have the Cycle so they go back to Searching??

<span id='postcolor'>

I've been using this method once in an older mission of mine.

I've made some VC patrols walking around in the woods, and once they detected any GI's there, i've sent them to a

seek&destroy waypoint with a radius of 250, followed by

a cycle wp. The effect was: they never stopped their

seek&destroy, because of the cycle (as you supposed here i think).

I can't really tell you how long it does take to end the first

seek&destroy wp, because i've never been sitting there with

my stop watch (*hint*)

k - next one will follow soon

~S~ CD

[Chris Death 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unit -> Guard doesn't seem to be good because if you put everyone on that then they will come running at you from all over the map.<span id='postcolor'>

Guard:

The guard waypoint i'm always using, when i'm sure that it's

only the player's group present to be the attacked one.

Or if it's the first battle location in my mission, and nothing

more did already happen somewhere else.

To make sure it's only the one group i want to become attacked, i'm using deleteVehicle for the remaining units, which

shouldn't become attacked. Or if you still want to use such

current useless units later in your mission -> set them to

captive true and let any enemy unit detect them to be in that

state. This way no other enemy unit with a guard waypoint

would go for the captives anymore.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Which brings me to: what's with the trigger...West...Detected by East? Does that mean that if the West is ever seen (even outside circle) by the east that are INSIDE that circle then the switch is activated?? But if an East unit outside the circle sees you then the trigger won't work?<span id='postcolor'>

West - detected by East

The trigger refers to any West units inside the trigger area,

detected by East inside the trigger area (not sure about

the east's here, but you can try it out easily i think).

Make a trigger: 100/100 - west - detected by east

and place you (east soldier) outside the trigger area, while

a west ai inside the trigger area. If the trigger doesn't become

active, you know it's because also the detector needs to be

inside the trigger area. But the unit who needs to be detected

MUST be in the trigger area for the time to be detected.

~S~ CD

[Chris Death 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What about...having a unit's first waypoint be Move and then Cycle so they go around and around and THEN have another Move after the Cycle, but that is far away so they never get to it (because it Cycles to the first one) BUT have a Switch on the Cycle so that when something happens you can get the unit to go off and do that new Move waypoint.

<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, this is the method to create alternative waypoint routes. You can even switch a unit back to an already used

order of waypoints here. Also you can create randomly used

wayopint routes with this method (might be found in some

older threads, where i've been replying to).

~S~ CD

[)=Obi=( 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DV Chris Death @ Jan. 14 2003,15:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Guard:

The guard waypoint i'm always using, when i'm sure that it's

only the player's group present to be the attacked one.

Or if it's the first battle location in my mission, and nothing

more did already happen somewhere else.

To make sure it's only the one group i want to become attacked, i'm using deleteVehicle for the remaining units, which

shouldn't become attacked. Or if you still want to use such

current useless units later in your mission -> set them to

captive true and let any enemy unit detect them to be in that

state. This way no other enemy unit with a guard waypoint

would go for the captives anymore. (...)

~S~ CD<span id='postcolor'>

Well thanks for the answer .

Could you explain that part a little more 'cause i don't get the point, please.

[Chris Death 0]

OK,

Let's say there are several enemy groups, all having a guard waypoint.

The cpu will decide, how many of these groups might do their

guard job, as it also decides, where which group has to do

that. Three 10 men groups won't be sent after only one

attacker. The cpu will keep some of them back as some

kind of reserve.

Now if there is a battle at location 1 (player group + friendly

ai's vs enemies), and the battle is over already, and the player

group has to go to another location, while the other friendly

ai's still stay at location 1.

If there are more enemy groups now going for a guard wayopint, the cpu will decide to send some of them to the

first battle location and some to the new battle location.

Therefore i suggested to change the captive state of the

friendly ai's to true, and let any enemy unit see them.

Now the cpu knows that they are no more enemies, and will

concentrate all it's power to the newer battle location.

Same will happen, if you delete the friendly ai's.

~S~ CD