Balschoiw 0 Posted January 26, 2003 I once had a hard time when I realized how many humans killed themselves or preferable their women when they where trying what is good to eat or not. I was collecting mushrooms in the woods and just let my mind wander. I realized that 70 percent of local mushrooms will give your health a hard time , some with red caps and white dots will give you a whoopy time if you didn´t eat to much of it and some will simply put you to grave . Amen. Imagine how many people died of the mushrooms before they realized and prove wich one where to eat and wich not. This is what I call : Trial and error. What we do today is a laughter compared to the hard times Stoneage Willy and Susi had to go through Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 26, 2003 Not only that. A very often omitted fact is that the 'randomness' of the universe isn't random. There is order in the universe and I'm not talking about Darth Vader or any other omnipotent being but of the physical laws that do exist. You want your God? Fine, but put him on a reasonable level. You can always argue that the evolutionary system and the laws of physics are the creations of an omnipotent being. Don't try to explain secular phenomena by religious intent since you are bound to fail. This has happened so many times before: What do you mean that the earth rotates around the sun, ye heathen! The earth must be the center since it is God's creation - sound familiar? Do you know that the Catholic Church have accepted evolution and said that it is compatible with the theoligical doctrine of the church? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted January 27, 2003 Yes, excellent point that last one Denoir. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted January 27, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Jan. 26 2003,16:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bn880: maybe I did meet God. what would be so special about it? millions have. maybe this encounter did totally change my life. maybe it did turn me from a life as a petty pusher on the streets into a leader at what I'm doing now. God still saves, you know.<span id='postcolor'> I'll be honest with you, if you have met God recently, I'm a very happy man to hear that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oligo 1 Posted January 28, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Jan. 26 2003,22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">would you say that information ( in the scientific sense of the word ) necessitates or presupposes. - a sender? which implies: - a plan and thus a person planning? - semantic content (= a message). semantic content is foreign to matter. - information serves a purpose. the quality of a purpose-serving invention demonstrates the genius of the inventor. - matter by itself doesn't create concepts. (a bridge doesn't span itself across a river just because a few folks want to get to the other side.) - the building blocks of matter don't have any psychic properties. they don't plan and don't think. they don't create goals and then pursue them. only intelligent beings, capable of using information, can do that. let me simplify: before you is a pile of boards and nails. what is necessary to build a hut out of those? - the will to do it, - the strength, - the time, - and an idea of what kind of hut you want to build. now look at a car consisting of 10.000 pieces? what do you need to create that? more of the above: - more tenacious will - more power - more time - a more specific plan a space shuttle? more of the above. what do you need to create a supercomputer consisting of roughly 15 billion pieces, 300.000 miles of cable, gazillions of random access and long term storage memory, water cooled, weighing 3 pounds / 1.5 kg? (I'm talking about the human brain.) what do you need to arrive at a product like that? nothing - and long time periods? no. not according to the established laws of science. you need more of the above: greater willpower, more energy, more time..., you get the drift. since matter by itself is not self-organizing, who told it to organize the way it does? <span id='postcolor'> I really don't want to get into this argument, since you're obviously pasting from something written by Jack Chick. But I guess I'll have to. I have witnessed evolution, it happens every day: I have observed how strains of bacteria become resistant to antibiotics by simple means of mutation+selection=evolution. I am also pretty sure that even you have heard about insects becoming immune to pesticides = evolution. I have also used a technique called artificial evolution myself. We introduce random mutations and recombinations to a DNA strand encoding a protein we want to improve. Then we select for improved proteins. After some rounds of enrichment, we have a bank of improved sequences. Does this mean man has become god? What comes to your long attempt to assign "godly" properties to information: If you cannot see the flaws in your reasoning, I doubt I can make you see them. Why can't you just believe in your god and leave him out of the earthly matters? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
