Should the bobby's pack heaters?

[red oct 2]

i was just looking around the hitman forum when i came to this little thread. i don't know how big a problem it is for the unarmed police to deal w/ armed crime, but i figured theres a lota brits here at the OF forum lets discuss here it to find out. lets start w/ these questions:

How bad is crime in gerneral in the U.K.?

How bad is violent crime in the U.K. that involves some form of a weapon whether its a gun or a stabbing type weapon? what are the chances of a armed robery in a store or in person in a ally?

Are there enough police or "Bobbys" to handle crime?

What do British police think of this issue? they are putting their lifes on the line, (any volenteers care to ask their local police for us?) would they feel safer being armed w/ a weapon? why or why not?

edit: would YOU feel safer if they had guns?

What do British police currently carry w/ them when they go out on patrol?

If British police were armed do you think more accidents involving accidentle shootings of innocent people would become a big problem, or maybe police brutality? guns may increase ones ego.

[Itchy 0]

Crime in the UK is pretty low, and gun crime is very low. I live in Scotland, and I have a very dubious past, but have only encountered a handgun once in that. And I was post office clerk at the business end of two armed robberies, neither of which turned out to have been with live guns.

Armed muggings are again something that doesn't happen up here. Knives maybe, guns no. They cost more than you'd get from the deed.

Police numbers...I think they are a bit short-staffed, especially in rural areas. If you see police on the beat, it normally means there has been an incident in the area not long ago.

On patrol, they carry pepper spray and side-handled exending batons. Normally areas will have a single armed-response vehicle out on patrol at any time.

I wouldn't feel too comfortable if the police had guns. Currently if a plice officer in the UK has a gun, it will only be drawn if he thinks you have a weapon, and if he shoots, it is to kill. Since the only police who are armed have a lot of additional training, and are the brightest picks from the force, I'd OK with the idea of them being armed, but for your basic officer on patrol, I'd feel nervous about it all.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

eupsss! right now I see equal results! 25% on every choice!"

[red oct 2]

today on tech tv they had this non leathel weapon that uses sound as a means to disable people. it uses sound to somehow cause a migraine headache when used on somebody and covering your ears won't protect you. but the good thing is its effects are only temporary. but i think its purpose is solely meant for a large riot and would probaly require a vehicle. but perhaps it could be mounted on the police vehicles. one problem w/ it would be its undoubtable high cost.

[Itchy 0]

Now that sounds like something straight out of 1984.

[FSPilot 0]

Probably not in the UK, but in places where there's a gun problem then definately.

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Itchy @ Jan. 06 2003,07:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now that sounds like something straight out of 1984. <span id='postcolor'>

whactya mean?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Itchy @ Jan. 06 2003,07:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I live in Scotland, and I have a very dubious past<span id='postcolor'>

Please! Have a chair and tell us some more.

[Itchy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Jan. 06 2003,06:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Itchy @ Jan. 06 2003,07:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now that sounds like something straight out of 1984. <span id='postcolor'>

whactya mean?<span id='postcolor'>

1984 was a book by George Orwell about a totalitarian future, ruled by Big Brother. The police in that used (from what I remember) some sort of music to break up riots.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Read the book 1984 by George Orwell, then you will know.

Well, only people who live in the U.K. should really be allowed to vote on the topic, they have a better understanding of the problems in their country than we do. Alot of us here in North America would feel that having un-armed police would be the stupidest idea ever, myself included.

Criminals over here tend to be armed anyway, whereas handguns are illegal in the U.K., so only criminals have them. But I would imagine that it would only be a problem in urban areas.

Tyler

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1984 was a book by George Orwell about a totalitarian future, ruled by Big Brother. The police in that used (from what I remember) some sort of music to break up riots. <span id='postcolor'>

No, I think they just shot them, or captured them and brought them to the 'ministry of love' to be 're-eductated'.

I think the music thing was from Brave New World, combined with soma.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 06 2003,09:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, only people who live in the U.K. should really be allowed to vote on the topic<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree. That's why there's a "dunno" option - which I chose for that reason.

I've been in the UK numerous times and have read through many a morning paper but I cannot draw a conclusion.

Of course, if I would base myself on the British murder and police TV series they show here, I would say that Bobbies should pack SAWs.

[Itchy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 06 2003,07:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Criminals over here tend to be armed anyway, whereas handguns are illegal in the U.K., so only criminals have them. But I would imagine that it would only be a problem in urban areas.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, I look at it this way. Criminals over here tend not to be armed. Introduce a gun to a criminal act, and you raise not only the jail time, but the likelyhood of getting shot (by armed police). If you arm the police, then you may find the criminals arm up to counter the face that they are always facing guns.

And Avon, I was concerned with the supply of some fragrant herbs. You end up meeting a lot of people that you really wish you hadn't that way. Long time in the past now.

Edit : Yeah, it was Brave New World. I read them at the same time, very similar books really.

[red oct 2]

when did the pass the gun laws in britian? was it after the problem in Dunblane? i think that happened around 99 didn't it?

[Itchy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Jan. 06 2003,07:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">when did the pass the gun laws in britian? was it after the problem in Dunblane? i think that happened around 99 didn't it?<span id='postcolor'>

After Dunblane they banned handguns for target shooting. Now its small calibre rifles and shotguns (not pump action) only that get licenced. Firearms have always been effectively illegal.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Itchy @ Jan. 06 2003,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And Avon, I was concerned with the supply of some fragrant herbs.<span id='postcolor'>

So you're the one that introduced bowls of potpourri in almost every English household's bathroom. Dubious indeed!

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Avon, judging by the title on this thread I'm surprised you haven't posted a picture of a heater and made some funny comment about police carrying electric heaters in their cars.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Just found an article on another forum:

A story from the UK ... a typical reaction ... ban some more and the numbers still keep rising. Read the story for yourself.

Blair to issue sweeping new ban on 'lethal' replica guns

By Colin Brown and David Bamber

(Filed: 05/01/2003)

The Prime Minister will announce this week that sophisticated airguns which are being adapted to fire live bullets are to be banned as part of a "crackdown" on crime involving firearms.

Tony Blair's announcement, which follows the death of two teenage girls in a gun battle in Aston, Birmingham, last week, comes as new Home Office figures, obtained by The Telegraph, reveal that gun crime has reached record levels. They show that an average of 22 such crimes are committed every day - up from 13 a day when Labour came to power in 1997.

The statistics, to be released this week, will disclose that in the 12 months to April 2002 there were more than 8,200 incidents involving firearms. In the 12 months to April 1998, there were 4,903.

Many of the crimes are being committed with airguns manufactured to resemble real guns and which can be easily and quickly modified to fire live bullets.

Such guns, which are sold legally in their thousands, have been involved in a spate of murders, hold-ups and muggings. Scotland Yard says that 75 per cent of the guns it seizes on the streets are adapted air weapons, and senior commanders have been pressing the Government for action for some time.

Mr Blair will now follow their advice to outlaw such weapons. The Prime Minister, who returned to Downing Street last night from holiday in Egypt, is understood to be appalled at the rise in gun crime and, in particular, at the Birmingham shootings.

The ban will include realistic replica guns and collectors' guns which can be reactivated to fire live bullets. A senior minister said: "We want to stamp out gun crime. The Prime Minister will announce a ban on airguns that can be rebored to fire bullets."

Tomorrow David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, will announce that changes will be made to the Criminal Justice Bill to lay down a minimum sentence of five years' imprisonment for carrying an illegal weapon. He hopes this will stamp out the carrying of pistols as a "fashion accessory", a practice which ministers believe is prevalent among black teenagers.

Tarique Ghaffur, a Metropolitan Police assistant commissioner, said: "Guns are increasingly used just to make others 'respect' the gunholder."

Mr Blunkett is to hold a summit at the Home Office next Friday. Police chiefs, immigration officials, customs officers, Crown Prosecution Service lawyers and community leaders have been invited to discuss ways of tackling the problem and of identifying other gaps in the law that may require further legislation.

"We are going to close all the doors we can to gun crime," said a high-ranking Home Office official.

Mr Blunkett yesterday appealed for co-operation with the police from black families and witnesses of the fatal shooting of Charlene Ellis and Latisha Shakespear at a party in Birmingham.

"The thing that worries me about black-on-black crime is that without co-operation of the communities closest to those carrying and using guns, the police have an impossible task," he told The Telegraph. "I join with those who have appealed to the communities to play their part. This is an issue for us all, not just law enforcement agencies."

Witnesses afraid of intimidation by gangs would, if necessary, be protected with new identities, he said.

Mr Blunkett denied that the new laws were a "knee-jerk" reaction to public outrage at recent killings and shootings.

Just goes to show that strict gun control really does reduce crime.

Tyler

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 06 2003,09:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Avon, judging by the title on this thread I'm surprised you haven't posted a picture of a heater and made some funny comment about police carrying electric heaters in their cars.  <span id='postcolor'>

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

The only reason Dunblane actually happened was because this stupid twat excuse for a cop was too bloody lazy to follow up on an initial report that said the guy was unfit to own a hand gun.

Banning firearms may stop crimes of passion (road rage shootings, shootings when a fly urinates into your cereal, when your gf leaves you etc.) but it will not stop planned acts. Hang on, the UK never had problems with crimes of passion and handguns, that's the US

Armed police is not the answer, the criminals will simply stock up. A mate of mine told a mate of his that he could get an Airsoft Ak-47 for about Å250. His mate turned around and said he could get the real steel for the same amount of money

ARU's should be increased, however, and thus limit their response time. Add to that tough jail crimes (not letting burglars with 30 convictions off because they try to be a poet ) and you may have an answer.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Armed police is not the answer, the criminals will simply stock up. <span id='postcolor'>

By that logic, all police should disarm themselves in the hopes that criminals would too.

Since it seems that there is a gang problem in the U.K., ciminals are probably arming themselves to fight eachother. Over here, when the cops come, it is rare that a gang member with a gun would try and confront a cop. Most of them avoid the police because they know that the they are well armed and well trained to deal with criminals.

But I guess it's cheaper to pass a bunch of stupid laws than it is to come up with and enforce a real solution, like getting illegal guns off the streets and giving more funding to the police to do it.

Tyler

[Itchy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By that logic, all police should disarm themselves in the hopes that criminals would too.<span id='postcolor'>

Your smilie gives away that you don't believe thats true either.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since it seems that there is a gang problem in the U.K<span id='postcolor'>

When the news in the UK says there is a gang problem, we aren't talking in the same league as any US gang. We aren't even talking the same game. Guns in UK gangs are about status, not about popping a cap in someones ass. There are no "no-go" areas anywhere in Scotland. As for gang members confronting cops, it just doesn't really happen, even in the few areas that could be described as having a problem. THere is no faster way to get your home searched and your ass in jail than showing a copper a firearm.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But I guess it's cheaper to pass a bunch of stupid laws...<span id='postcolor'>

Like the laws that give us a far far lower armed crime rate than the US, and most other countries?

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Like the laws that give us a far far lower armed crime rate than the US, and most other countries?

<span id='postcolor'>

For the love of everything good, let's avoid another gun control debate. Please.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 06 2003,11:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For the love of everything good, let's avoid another gun control debate. Please.  <span id='postcolor'>

Almost but not good enough.

[MrMilli 0]

We have Armed Police.

Where is the need to give everyone who might come in contact with an armed criminal a gun.

If you fire at a policeman then they will go away.

Then they will come back with several heavily armed police entirely trained and prepared to hurt you if you don't do exactly what they say.

This is not one big warzone.

Several of the Armed Response Units in the UK, have never had to fire at anyone.