Smallpox

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cam0flage @ Dec. 18 2002,16:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Smallpox doesn't kill people, death does ...<span id='postcolor'>

and taxes!

[Lazarus_Long 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Dec. 18 2002,14:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Many countries are susupected of having it though, such as Iraq and North Korea.

<span id='postcolor'>

US And european countries have smallpox too.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We may be one of the countrys that has smallpox for research use, but definately not in weapon form I don't think.  If anything we'd use it to make a syrum.

<span id='postcolor'>

Yep, you are one of those countries...

I'm sure it'll be used by an allied country sooner or later.  That's the way grown ups make this world as fucked as possible.

The syrum already exists i think...<span id='postcolor'>

The reason most countries keep a small stock pile of smallpox, is so they can continue to make the vaccine.  It's a live virus vaccine, so it requires fresh viruses in order to be produced.  Once you get rid of your viruses, your capability of making more vaccine is gone.

Of course the same viruses that are used to make vaccines, can potentially be used to make nasty weapons with too. What are the regulations on stockpiling smallpox?  Is it illegal for any particular country to have it?

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lazarus_Long @ Dec. 17 2002,17:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Dec. 18 2002,14:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Many countries are susupected of having it though, such as Iraq and North Korea.

<span id='postcolor'>

US And european countries have smallpox too.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We may be one of the countrys that has smallpox for research use, but definately not in weapon form I don't think.  If anything we'd use it to make a syrum.

<span id='postcolor'>

Yep, you are one of those countries...

I'm sure it'll be used by an allied country sooner or later.  That's the way grown ups make this world as fucked as possible.

The syrum already exists i think...<span id='postcolor'>

The reason most countries keep a small stock pile of smallpox, is so they can continue to make the vaccine.  It's a live virus vaccine, so it requires fresh viruses in order to be produced.  Once you get rid of your viruses, your capability of making more vaccine is gone.

Of course the same viruses that are used to make vaccines, can potentially be used to make nasty weapons with too. What are the regulations on stockpiling smallpox?  Is it illegal for any particular country to have it?<span id='postcolor'>

No of course it is not illegal.  That's not what i was trying to say.

I just wanted to confirm that allied countries also have this virus.

I know it's being used to create vaccins...

You say is it illegal for any country to have it?  I say no, every country should be allowed to have a certain ammount of this virus.

But why did you say: Many countries are susupected of having it though, such as Iraq and North Korea.

Don't they have the same rights as every other country? It's normal that they have it if you ask me...

[Lazarus_Long 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But why did you say: Many countries are susupected of having it though, such as Iraq and North Korea. <span id='postcolor'>

I'm not sure what post you are refering to...  

I was actually asking if someone knew what the regulations were.  Are some countries like Iraq banned from keeping a stock pile of smallpox? I don't know.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lazarus_Long @ Dec. 17 2002,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But why did you say: Many countries are susupected of having it though, such as Iraq and North Korea. <span id='postcolor'>

I'm not sure what post you are refering to...  

I was actually asking if someone knew what the regulations were.  Are some countries like Iraq banned from keeping a stock pile of smallpox? I don't know.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry, this: Many countries are susupected of having it though, such as Iraq and North Korea

was posted by someone else

I can't answer your question, but i hope they're not banned to have them.

What i do think is true is that there isn't much of the virus left, i believe only a few countries have it... I've seen this on National Geogrpahic Channel once.

So i don't think every country has the virus...

[Oligo 1]

The only official stocks of smallpox are stored in U.S. and Russia, but I am very sure that stocks of smallpox are still around everywhere in the world, since storing it does not require any specialized equipment but a simple freezer.

However, smallpox virus is not needed for production of smallpox vaccine. It turns out (proven by Jenner a long time ago) that a similar virus of cows (known as vaccinia) provides immunity against smallpox, when injected to humans. So in order to produce smallpox vaccine, cow vaccinia was grown in cows or sheep, harvested and injected to humans. Vaccinia virus does not replicate much in humans, but provides immunity against smallpox. It might also (the reported frequency varies between 1:100000-1:1000000) cause fatal brain fever in humans (d'oh).

Smallpox vaccine has not been produced for a long time (not for at least 20 years), at least not publicly, since smallpox has supposedly been eradicated. Any stocks of vaccine available are just stores from back then. However, U.S. has ordered new stocks of vaccine, but these are not available yet.

Considering all this, why is Iraq still vaccinating some soldiers against smallpox?

[MrMilli 0]

Ever thought that these guys had been vaccinated in 1973 and retained their imunity?

statistically quite a few people are still immune.

you don't know how old these guys are or anything about their medical history.

[Oligo 1]

The vaccine against smallpox works for only 4-5 years. Thus they would have been vaccinated during nineties.

[MrMilli 0]

Actually, no it isn't.

A person who recieves the vaccine will definately will be resistant to smallpox for 4-5 years.

This doesn't mean that they hit the five year mark and suddenly lose all resistance.

The body has "seen" the virus, and it is producing its own anti-bodies against it, its what vaccines do.

Some people can be vaccinated for something and until the day they die be totally immune from it

Some people will not.

I would say if you tested the same amount of people in 1991, of Service age in any other middle eastern country then you'd get the similar results.

The point I'm trying to make is there are other explanations than "Saddam has horns and a tail and stole Christmas (and smallpox) from the Russians"

Granted he isn't particularly a nice bloke (genocide can really mark a guy for life ) but at the moment all I see is an egomanical dictator who blew his one shot at becoming a regional super-power and still wants to be important.

Hey, guess what there are quite a few of those about with worse stuff than this guy.

[Oligo 1]

Actually you're wrong. When the immediate immune response to a vaccine (or a disease) calms down and ends, a part of the fighting cells turns into "dormant" memory cells. The rest of the fighting cells die off as unnecessary. The population of memory cells then starts to degenerate with time.

Now the immunity completely depends on the robustness of the memory cell population. Some diseases like chickenpox cause such a solid population of memory cells that you'll retain your immunity for the rest of your life. Vaccinia, however, causes a population of memory cells, which dies off enough in about 5 years so that you'll lose your immunity to smallpox. So if I tested a population that had been vaccinated in 1970, there would only be an insignificant fraction of people retaining immunity.

But don't get me wrong: I'm with you on your opinion about Saddam. He is perfectly happy there oppressing Iraq, after all, he is just a power-hungry secular dictator, who might have WMDs. No way in hell will he cause any trouble to other countries, if we just leave him alone. His gassing the kurds was purely just because the kurds did not accept the oppression without dissent.

I'm also sure that EVERYBODY has smallpox, since it is such a simple weapon to store and not long ago it was widely available for free.

What is really scary is that busy little scientists are developing genetically altered bioweapons as we speak. Here is a reference where some russian researchers explain how they created a strain of anthrax which is not subdued by normal anthrax vaccines (which use less virulent Anthrax strain ST-1):

Pomerantsev, Staritsin, Mockov & Marinin (1997) Expression of cereolysine AB genes in Bacillus Anthracis vaccine strain ensures protection against experimental hemolytic anthrax infection. Vaccine 15:1846-50