Russian helicopter crashes in chechnya

[Balschoiw 0]

I only understand russian a bit, but i have seen a live interview yesterday evening with the hostage. The moderator asked this question 2 times to make sure the interpreter gets it right and the hostage answered it twice and in addition added that there was no sign from terrorists to blow the bombs when they realized that gas was used. Don´t come up with the language thing. The message from the hostage was clear. If anybody is directly to the facts it must be the hostages not the authorities outside that even forbid medical doctors to speak.

[akm74 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anybody is directly to the facts it must be the hostages not the authorities outside that even forbid medical doctors to speak.

<span id='postcolor'>

This is also interview with interfax correspondent (woman who was in building for 3 days as hostage.)

It is in Russian, but you can translate it in any web-based translator if you really want to know what happen. It completely different from what you hear from other hostage interview. But… if you always build your opinion on what you “WANT†to hear, just don’t read it.

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MOSCOW. Oct 26 (Interfax) - If the theatre had not been stormed, all hostages would have been killed, the Interfax journalist who was among the hostages, Olga Chernyak, said.

  Chernyak is remaining in hospital.

  "We were waiting to die. We realized that they would not release us alive. We did not believe they would let us go even if all their demands are met and troops are withdrawn from Chechnya. The terrorists and especially the women among them told us: 'We came here to die. All of us want to go to Allah and you will go together with us," she noted.

LINK

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full story below

Interview

[Incredible 0]

hmm... i heard that the terrorists actually started executing hostages. i heard it on tv too but anyway...

Longinius, see! this is exactly what i'm talking about. you don't know that much about my country and you make up many things (or repeat things other people has made up).

1. the territory of Chechnya never belonged Chechens from the start. it was always a part of Russia. ok, not always, some time in the past Russia took over that territory from some other country. however, not from Chechens. THEY ARE NOT FROM AROUND THERE

2. no STRANGER is getting a piece of MY country. is that an unnatural attitude?

why don't you persuade US to give California to Mexico and Florida to Cuba? Why don't Swiss and Germans give a couple of cities to Turkey?

see what i mean....

[theavonlady 2]

More bad news.

[zverushka 0]

CHechens don't fight because they want freedom. They always fight. There's nothing else to do there. The land is unarable, the people are poor. The only thing they can do si grab a kalashnikov and go to war. When chechnya was independent, it attacked Dagestan. 400 years ago, Chechnya wasn't part of Russia  (Principality of Muscovy), and all they did was attack the armenian/georgian christians to the south, and go to war with their muslim brothers, the Golden Horde against Vladimir-Suzdal, Muscovy, Kiev, and Rostov Velikii, and the Poles.

[Longinius 1]

"Longinius, see! this is exactly what i'm talking about. you don't know that much about my country and you make up many things (or repeat things other people has made up).

1. the territory of Chechnya never belonged Chechens from the start. it was always a part of Russia. ok, not always, some time in the past Russia took over that territory from some other country. however, not from Chechens. THEY ARE NOT FROM AROUND THERE"

Aparantly there are enough chechens in Chechnya to start a rebellion and try to break free. Who it belonged to before isnt really relevant, if enough people rebels you have a problem any way. At any rate, it does not excuse the way civilians down there are treated by russian soldiers.

"2. no STRANGER is getting a piece of MY country. is that an unnatural attitude?"

No, but it is the kind of attitude that starts wars. If a majority of the people in a region rise up and try to overthrow the local government, well, is it really YOUR country then? The country is made up by the people who inhabit it.

"why don't you persuade US to give California to Mexico and Florida to Cuba?"

Because the citizens of California and Florida have not taken up arms in attempts to break free from the US.

"Why don't Swiss and Germans give a couple of cities to Turkey?"

Same as above. Not really comparable situations you brought up.

[zverushka 0]

Longinius. They're not fighting to break free. They're fighting because there is nothing there to do. If chechnya was left independent, like last time, it'll just attack Russia or fight within its borders. It won't become a nice little islamic fundamentalist place where peaceful farmers grow crops.

[USMC Sniper 0]

Boy oh boy, some people just think that Chechnya is fighting for it's freedom because that is what they will usually hear. However, Chechnya was given it's freedom in 1996 (I don't remeber when) and then they attacked Dagestan which was Russian territory.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ Dec. 27 2002,22:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Longinius. They're not fighting to break free. They're fighting because there is nothing there to do. If chechnya was left independent, like last time, it'll just attack Russia or fight within its borders. It won't become a nice little islamic fundamentalist place where peaceful farmers grow crops.<span id='postcolor'>

This is a ridiculous claim. There is plenty for them to do, like recovering and rebuilding their country from the Russian destruction. Given the political chance and the right economic support they would indeed have a good chance of building a good country.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Boy oh boy, some people just think that Chechnya is fighting for it's freedom because that is what they will usually hear. However, Chechnya was given it's freedom in 1996 (I don't remeber when) and then they attacked Dagestan which was Russian territory. <span id='postcolor'>

They were never given independence. Never. For a period, Russia stepped down its military activities in Chechnya , yes, but they never got any freedom. Their situation is very much like the Palestinan one in Israel.

[desantnik 0]

This is a ridiculous claim. There is plenty for them to do, like recovering and rebuilding their country from the Russian destruction. Given the political chance and the right economic support they would indeed have a good chance of building a good country.

Then why did the drug and hostage trade increase during that time?

@ Goodspeed you must know the whole story of the Soviet Union seeing as how you were born in 1903 . Dont you remember the purges?

[zverushka 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is a ridiculous claim. There is plenty for them to do, like recovering and rebuilding their country from the Russian destruction. Given the political chance and the right economic support they would indeed have a good chance of building a good country.

<span id='postcolor'>

Recovering and rebuilding no way in hell is an occupation. The land is UNARABLE, period. All they can do is fight, since ancient times. In fact, historically, the whole caucasus region hates the chechens, because they were attacking them constantly. The ingushetians were the "helots" of the chechens. They were enslaved in medieval times. When chechnya was independent in 1996 (yes, the military withdrawed, there was a president, and RUssia no longer was involved with them), they just fought amongst themselves, and attacked islamic provinces of Russia like Dagestan.

You can't be empolyed in "rebuilding the country". The only occupation that such uneducated and stupid people can have is farming, and that's NOT possible in Chechnya. Grozny was not created by chechen mashinery and chechen engineers. It was created by russian mashinery and russian engineers, the chechens are not educated enough to do anything in their country. All they do is fight each other or other people, and they get their food by plundering peaceful villages in the lowlands, and ingushetian villages.

[Warin 0]

zverushka, consider yourself very lucky that it is me closing this topic, not another moderator. Your comments border on overt racism, and that is something that wont be tolerated here. If you feel the need to vent about Chechens do it somewhere else. If I see it here again, you will be PR'd for it.