Traffic on big dedicated servers...how high?

[shrike 0]

Hi,

we are going to set up a pretty huge high performance dedicated server for OFP.

Right now I am into negotiations with different ISPs and I need a precise cost estimation since the server will be sponsored.

In order to get such it would be very helpful to know how high the monthly transfer volume is on a comparable server.

(dedicated 100 Mbit connection, 32+ players ...hopefully crowded).

Is there any info available from one of the guys running Gameplanet, Fraghaus, Roughnecks, Globalnet etc.? Stoners I know thanks.

Thanxalot

Shrike[sHoP]

[shrike 0]

*bump*

apologies to the mods but it's a huge project with a time frame...

All you server gurus...where are you? Is it a secret how high your transfer volume is?

Thx

Shrike[sHoP]

[Placebo 29]

Shrike you don't need to apologise for waiting 11 hours to bump something, that's more than acceptable if you haven't received a reply, I'm just sorry I can't help you

[HellToupee 0]

try emailing sum one who runs a ofp server or get their isq msn etc.

[Skunk Monkey 0]

I help run a server but cant help you.

Its just a  connection on unlimited transfer rate.

If it helps the average 12 people on a map and it will run at 900kps out 200kps in. Very little transfer in lobby, and when lots are downloading a new map (some maps are 2Mb on the server) then it can peak at about 2000kps out, If there are 15 people.

Maybe you can estimate from that, do some sums on average out per hour or something.

Figues taken from in-game #monitor function.

So you could get on a server simialar to what you want to run and ask the admin to #monitor and tell you the results - or get admin yourself.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

nevermind ed replied

[BigQEd 0]

FragHaus is running Multi/OC3 (Largest connection for OFP). I can tell you it is NOT the bandwidth that limits at this size. It is the CPU and other capabilities of a server. However, even with the largest server you will be limited... atleast in Windoze... to about 24-32 players.

[Skunk Monkey 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BigQEd @ Oct. 17 2002,21:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FragHaus is running Multi/OC3 (Largest connection for OFP). I can tell you it is NOT the bandwidth that limits at this size. It is the CPU and other capabilities of a server. However, even with the largest server you will be limited... atleast in Windoze... to about 24-32 players.<span id='postcolor'>

I agree we only have a 10mb connection and a P4-2Ghz-512 as a server, we have no bandwidth issues only Processor power issues on some of our larger maps with many AI units (on coop maps).

[badkarma 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BigQEd @ Oct. 17 2002,22:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FragHaus is running Multi/OC3 (Largest connection for OFP). I can tell you it is NOT the bandwidth that limits at this size. It is the CPU and other capabilities of a server. However, even with the largest server you will be limited... atleast in Windoze... to about 24-32 players.<span id='postcolor'>

BigQEd,

On a big map what a decent fps from the #monitor command? Also what is the waiting/dedicated fields mean? I usually have 0 for both, but both jump up when transferring a mission. I've been trying to find a ded. server tweaking guide, but haven't seen anything, tried searching this forum as well.

[BigQEd 0]

The variations on the numbers are too large for valuable feedback in any type of comparision.

Too many things effect it. We have large missions with few vehicles and the FPS can be good (15+). Have a smaller missions with a lot of vehicles and you can have bad FPS (under 5). In order to have a good comparision via #monitor you would need to have the same exact Missions and the same exact players connect.

Honestly... if you want tons of players... then make a mission that is real small in scripts with no vehicles. Place it on Intro. I know you can get 50+ in that scenerio... but what fun is it?

FYI: Music added to files does little to effect the games FPS. It merely means a larger file download before the mission starts. The script that starts the music playing actually causes more lag than the music itself (which is very little)

[Skunk Monkey 0]

Yeah we looked to when setting up SES server, the best setting were found by trial and error using the Bis-Issued guidelines which i guess you have alrerady seen..

It tells you Non-guaranteed messages are used for repetitive updates like soldier or vehicle position. Guaranteed messages are used for non-repetitive events like shooting.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Performance tuning

There are also some parameters that can be used to fine-tune network performance. You can add following entries to Flashpoint.cfg (the main Flashpoint configuration file):

MaxMsgSend=<limit>; Maximum number of messages that can be sent in one simulation cycle. Increasing this value can decrease lag on high upload bandwidth servers.

Default: 128

MaxSizeGuaranteed=<limit>; Maximum size of guaranteed packet in bytes (without headers). Small messages are packed to larger frames.

Guaranteed messages are used for non-repetitive events like shooting.

Default: 512

MaxSizeNonguaranteed =<limit>; Maximum size of non-guaranteed packet in bytes (without headers). Non-guaranteed messages are used for repetitive updates like soldier or vehicle position.

Increasing this value may improve bandwidth requirement, but it may increase lag.

Default: 256

MinBandwidth =<bottom_limit>; Bandwidth the server is guaranteed to have (in bps). This value helps server to estimate bandwidth available. Increasing it to too optimistic values can increase lag and CPU load, as too many messages will be sent but discarded.

Default: 131072

MaxBandwidth=<top_limit> Bandwidth the server is guaranteed to never have. This value helps server to estimate bandwidth available.

The greatest level of optimization can be achieved by setting the MaxMsgSend and MinBandwidth parameters. For a server with 1024kbps we recommend the following values:

MaxMsgSend = 256;

MinBandwidth = 768000;

You can use the admin command #monitor to monitor server resource usage. The server never runs at more than 50 fps. When running slower, it always uses all available CPU processing power to maintain the smoothest possible gameplay. When running at less than 15 fps, you can consider the server overloaded – the mission currently played is probably too complex for given server. If you see the server is not using bandwidth that it could use, you can try increasing values MaxMsgSend and MinBandwidth.<span id='postcolor'>

[BigQEd 0]

I would agree with what Skunk Monkey has stated. Looks very close to statements I have seen by BIS in the past.

MaxMsgSend and MinBandwidth seem to be the ONLY settings that can be tweaked. Others from our experience only seem to have negative effects. Also... need to remember that these settings ONLY work with DirectPlay. There are some other settings (very complex) for Sockets.

MaxMsgSend = 256; is the BEST setting unless you are running on a P2 300 (in which case I suggest you pick up the latest copy of Space Invaders as it would be more enjoyable with your system)

MinBandwidth = 1024000; is what I suggest. You should not be running a server unless you have 1M+ connection available at all times. (ie a T1 at minimum)

In additon... make sure you set your framerate in the Flashpoint.cfg file to frameRate=50.000000;. By default it often will set it to 15 for some reason...

[badkarma 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BigQEd @ Oct. 17 2002,15:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would agree with what Skunk Monkey has stated. Looks very close to statements I have seen by BIS in the past.

MaxMsgSend and MinBandwidth seem to be the ONLY settings that can be tweaked. Others from our experience only seem to have negative effects. Also... need to remember that these settings ONLY work with DirectPlay. There are some other settings (very complex) for Sockets.

MaxMsgSend = 256; is the BEST setting unless you are running on a P2 300 (in which case I suggest you pick up the latest copy of Space Invaders as it would be more enjoyable with your system)

MinBandwidth = 1024000; is what I suggest. You should not be running a server unless you have 1M+ connection available at all times. (ie a T1 at minimum)

In additon... make sure you set your framerate in the Flashpoint.cfg file to frameRate=50.000000;. By default it often will set it to 15 for some reason...<span id='postcolor'>

K, Thanks guys. FrameRate meaning Frame_Rate_Pref? Mine's set to 500 for some reason.

[shrike 0]

Well, thanks to all for your replies!

So Ed, what you are basically saying is that  a 100 MBit pipe is not needed, even for many players. This is good news, it will keep costs low (High bandwidth connections are pretty expensive in Germany)

Would 10 Mbit be enough, even for 64 players (virtual assumption if the machine could handle it)? If so, why did you hook your OFP server on 2 x 155 Mbit? Or do you just use what you already have?

The machine itself will be a dual 2.2 GHz Xeon IBM 19" server with 2 gigs of RAM and a nice SCSI Raid System with only OFP & Teamspeak running. I know dual processor systems do not affect OFP performance very much, but it will help out with the OS.

Concerning the OS, we still don't know whether to use Linux or not, this mainly depends on the quality of BIS' new Linux server when it's out of beta.

Thanks again, any further tips you'd like to share would be appreciated!

Shrike [sHoP]

[nicebag 0]

My experience from running G-Globalnet server.

We have 10Mbps available and running 2x1.8GHz AMD's. Top number of players we had was 25+ and we never touched the top of the bandwidth. CPU usage was around 80%, and #monitor command (from the game) would show around 1.5Mbps outgoing traffic with peaks when downloading maps to 5Mbps. We noticed that in 1.75 even when connecting to server, server sends around 5Mbps of data if there are 10 people connecting at once to the server.

Our settings in flashpoint.cfg are very simple :

MaxMsgSend = 512;

MinBandwidth = 768000;

MaxBandwidth= 2048000;

I would go for Pentium IV on 2.7 or more if I'd had chance to invest more money in server. 512Mb of memory is completely enough for running one instance of OFP.

[Skunk Monkey 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shrike @ Oct. 18 2002,09:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The machine itself will be a dual 2.2 GHz Xeon IBM 19" server with 2 gigs of RAM and a nice SCSI Raid System with only OFP & Teamspeak running. I know dual processor systems do not affect OFP performance very much, but it will help out with the OS.<span id='postcolor'>

If you know Dual processors dont help OFP much and yet are much more expensive why not just get the faster single-processor server you can afford, on a 10mbit line to keep costs down. Seems daft spending the extra money on more connection/memory/dual processor which wont make much difference.

And another good Euro Server is always welcome

If you do the #monitor fucntion it show that ofpserver rarely uses over 130Mb of memory ... so with operating system then 512 or 768 should be fine.

Unless of course the next Linux server comes with multi-processor support

[nicebag 0]

I don't agree that dual CPU will not help. I know that OFP is not supporting by itself multiprocessing environment, but while OFP is using 1 CPU, Windows smartly uses another CPU for system tasks. This is conclusion made upon checking CPU % usage on my dual system.

But, of course - if there is possibility to take 1x3GHz CPU, I'd rather go for that then for 2x1.5GHz.

I agree for memory, 512MB is enough for running several instances of OFP on 1 server.

[shrike 0]

Thanx again!

I understand the the abovementioned system seems a bit overpowered to run a single OFP server, nevertheless it's no real issue for us to buy it and we want to be prepared for the many funky games to come (OFP 2 maybe...).

The possibility to get our hands on this IBM machine is here and we will take advantage of it...

I am happy that 10 Mbit would be enough, the monthly costs are much more important to consider for us.

Another question since I have no clue: Can I run multiple instances of OFP server on one machine without experiencing any problems? This would be great, allowing us to setup different servers for different types of gameplay at once (Coop, C & H, a dedicated squad server maybe...).

Thanks to everybody replying...

Shrike [sHoP]

[x_rich 0]

I would just like to say that we run our server on a 100Mb line and then maximum through put we have ever managed to realisticly achive was 40Mb a sec anf that was not on OFP. The maximum we have managed to ge OFP up to was 8Mb a sec when we got 32 people to download a huge map as a test

Rich

[Skunk Monkey 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shrike @ Oct. 20 2002,09:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can I run multiple instances of OFP server on one machine without experiencing any problems?<span id='postcolor'>

I have heard it argued that as you can run a ofp server fine on a PIII 1Ghz with 256 Ram, then you can run 2 servers on a P4-2ghz-512 .... but honestly if you want the best perforance possible especially with many players then you need every bit of processor power you can get. If you just ran maps with no Vehicles and few players you may get away with it, as we are a Coop server the amount the server has to think about (with all the AI) is quite a lot and we build maps so that they run with 15+ FPS on our server. The more processor power you have means more Vehicles, more players, more scripts and more enemy can be used without the dreaded lag. Its not possible just to build the perfect mission without thinking how the server will handle it. We have found much improvement with our new P4-2Ghz instead of the old PIII 1Ghz we had before. This has enanbled the map-makers to write maps that were previously too-complicated for the server, and opened more possibilities.

I suppose as your server is a twin processor you could have a 14 player server and operating system running on on processor and the other processor for a 28 player server, this would probably work OK, you have enough RAM....

[nicebag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shrike @ Oct. 20 2002,10:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Another question since I have no clue: Can I run multiple instances of OFP server on one machine without experiencing any problems? This would be great, allowing us to setup different servers for different types of gameplay at once (Coop, C & H, a dedicated squad server maybe...).<span id='postcolor'>

We tried to had for some time 2 OFP instances (1.49, 1.75) open on our hardware. Conclusion is that when there would be around 30-40 players on, server would start to choke, and nothing could prevent that. I'd better go for two separate servers to run more then 2 OFP instances.

[shrike 0]

Errmm...actually I was starting to think about multiple instances only after everybody told me that the system is too overpowered for one OFP server...

Our idea behind it: We simply want to have a very very powerful OFP server for our own and for the communities' delight...that's it.

The ultimate goal of this project is performance for as many players as possible. This is pretty much the only thing to consider.

Now I am very grateful for your tips, but opinions seem to vary quite a bit...so I will just stick to the maximum available, concerning machine power and connection.

We hope to be able to invite interested players for a server stress test around the end of november...*knocking on wood*

Thanks again!

[vader_21vb 0]

After following this post for a couple of days, I think there is no way I can Tweak our Clan Dedi server to perform better.

I think the way for us is to upgrade the server with main focus on CPU pref.

The CPU NEVER drops under 100% when playing!

Current HW: P4 1.7GHz 512Mb SDram / Connection 2Mb

Over 16 player is problematic.

Will upgrade HW to P4 2Ghz 512 DDR ram.

I will monitor the change in pref. with the DDR ram Board.

and post my results, if any :-)

Lt. Vader

www.21vb.dk

[x_rich 0]

We are currently curring a P4 2.5 712Mb DDR with a 100Mb line. The server does run the processor at 100% nearly all the time but we can happily run 36 players on it with not much in the way of desync or lag apart from when people with 56K connect in.

We are still suffering from the occasional bits of bad desync but I guess that is more to do with the server code than anything. We are going to test it on a 4 proccesor machine next week, I will post the results when done

Tricky