Attachment questions

[alleycat 28]

I would like to ask about attachments:

1. When an attachment is on the weapon, can it influence or change the weapon behaviour, and if so, what can be changed?

2. How does it work technically? Does the config file overwrite the existing values with a different one from a "has attachment" bracket?

3. Are different magazines for the same weapon possible that have different ammo amounts and show visually?

4. Can an attachment replace a part of a weapon's geometry? example, if I wanted to change the barrel of a revolver with one of a different length.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I would like to ask about attachments:

1. When an attachment is on the weapon, can it influence or change the weapon behaviour, and if so, what can be changed?

2. How does it work technically? Does the config file overwrite the existing values with a different one from a "has attachment" bracket?

3. Are different magazines for the same weapon possible that have different ammo amounts and show visually?

4. Can an attachment replace a part of a weapon's geometry? example, if I wanted to change the barrel of a revolver with one of a different length.

1) It can. Muzzle slot attachments are designed to allow you to change the muzzle velocity, muzzle dispersion, sounds, muzzle flash intensity, hit (damage) and recoil among other things. Optics basically are designed to allow you move the various 'eye' memory points for aiming the weapon and allow you to alter the sight modes, rail attachments are not as functional in changing the weapon's behaviour apart from adding lasers and lights.

2) They all work as coefficients set in the muzzle attachment's config - basically the base values set in the weapon, ammunition and magazine are multiplied by the coefficient to form a new value that is a percentage higher of lower than the original value.

3) No, unfortunately the magazine model is the same whatever is loaded into the weapon.

4) Yes - you can hide the original geometry of the weapon model with the hasSuppressor, hasOptics, hasAccessory animation sources and visually replace it with the geometry of an attached item. You might get the muzzle smoke effects from the same place, but the muzzle flash effect can be moved to match different barrel lengths.

Regarding how to configure muzzle attachments to modify weapon behaviour:

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Weapon_Config_Guidelines#Muzzle_accessories

I haven't checked whether it's possible to apply the config properties that typically are used on say, a muzzle accessory (all the various ballistic coefficients etc.) to an attachment that actually goes in the optics slot for example. So I'm not really sure to what extent the 'role' of each slot as I explained in point 1) is hardcoded - you might be able to mix and match a little.

[alleycat 28]

Thanks.

[ante185 2]

the hell, if you can change "the model itself" with attachments then why can't you make it so different mags looks differently?

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Because the weapon's magazine slot doesn't support proxy models like the other weapon slots do. You could fake it using an attachment in on of the other slots but it would have no relation to the actual magazine loaded into the weapon and would simply take up either the optics, rail or muzzle slot instead of having a more practical attachment there.

I imagine the reasons for BIS not implementing mags as proxies are something to do with the complexities of making proper reload animations for multiple magazine geometries, and still having those mags shareable between different weapons. Right now you either have one reload anim per weapon regardless of what shape the mag is (so hands clipping through drum mags and things), or you have one animation for the magazine that is the same on all weapons i.e the hands wouldn't necessarily match where the mag-well was if you used the mag in a different weapon (this is seen with the 40mm EGLM rounds).

Edited July 30, 2014 by da12thMonkey

[PuFu 4600]

Because the weapon's magazine slot doesn't support proxy models like the other weapon slots do. You could fake it using an attachment in on of the other slots but it would have no relation to the actual magazine loaded into the weapon and would simply take up either the optics, rail or muzzle slot instead of having a more practical attachment there.

I imagine the reasons for BIS not implementing mags as proxies are something to do with the complexities of making proper reload animations for multiple magazine geometries, and still having those mags shareable between different weapons. Right now you either have one reload anim per weapon regardless of what shape the mag is (so hands clipping through drum mags and things), or you have one animation for the magazine that is the same on all weapons i.e the hands wouldn't necessarily match where the mag-well was if you used the mag in a different weapon (this is seen with the 40mm EGLM rounds).

I am sure the animation could be moved to the magazine class if they wanted to. Yes, more reload animations would be needed.

Again, it is a matter of priority, I still don't understand why the IK system used for vehicles didn't make it to the weapons, would have made under-barrel be usable as a proxy

[da12thMonkey 1943]

BIS have already added the ability to have animations defined in the magazine class - it's how the rifles with grenade launchers have different reload anims when reloading the EGLM than when you're reloading the standard box magazine on the weapon.

Like I said though; the magazine defined anims are the same for every weapon that uses that magazine, which is problematic.

See the reloadAction definition in the magazine config below (BIS' 40mm grenade for the EGLM and 3GL):

class 1Rnd_HE_Grenade_shell: CA_Magazine
{
	scope = 2;
	type = 16;
	displayName = "40mm HE Grenade Round";
	displayNameShort = "HE Grenade";
	picture = "\A3\Weapons_f\Data\ui\gear_UGL_slug_CA.paa";
	ammo = "G_40mm_HE";
	initSpeed = 80;
	count = 1;
	nameSound = "";
	descriptionShort = "Type: High Explosive Grenade Round<br />Caliber: 40 mm<br />Rounds: 1<br />Used in: EGLM, 3GL";
	mass = 4;
	reloadAction = "GestureReloadTrgUGL";
};

As you said, it's a matter of where BIS prioritise reconfiguring the animation system for weapons, in order to enhance this aspect of the game and remove such limitations. But it quite obviously requires a lot more work than the IK system for vehicles - which is very basic since the occupant is more or less in one position at all times (hands are always on the wheel, foot is always on the accelerator/brake/rudder pedal).

Something like the array + index system we have for weapon sounds + muzzle-slot attachments could possibly work, if BIS can face breaking everyone's addons again and enduring another round of the ensuing butthurt from players. E.g.

class cfgWeapons
{
class MyAwesomeRifle
{
	reloadActions[] = {"MyAwesomeRifle_StandardReload","MyAwesomeRifle_EGLMReload","MyAwesomeRifle_DrumReload"}; //classes in CfgMovesBasic ManActions
};
};

class cfgMagazines
{
class 1Rnd_HE_Grenade_shell: CA_Magazine
{
	reloadTypeIndex = 1;
};
class MyAwesomeRifleMagazine: CA_Magazine
{
	reloadTypeIndex = 0;
};
class MyAwesomeDrumMagazine: CA_Magazine
{
	reloadTypeIndex = 2;
};
};

But that's kind of getting OT, away from the subject of weapon attachments now :D

Edited July 30, 2014 by da12thMonkey

[PuFu 4600]

BIS have already added the ability to have animations defined in the magazine class - it's how the rifles with grenade launchers have different reload anims when reloading the EGLM than when you're reloading the standard box magazine on the weapon.

Oh yeah by bad, i forgot about that

Like I said though; the magazine defined anims are the same for every weapon that uses that magazine, which is problematic.

yeah that is true. If one was to define magazines animations based on weapon used, it would still be bad since you'd need to add that to each addon weapon, and i can see a bit of conflicting here

As you said, it's a matter of where BIS prioritise reconfiguring the animation system for weapons, in order to enhance this aspect of the game and remove such limitations. But it quite obviously requires a lot more work than the IK system for vehicles - which is very basic since the occupant is more or less in one position at all times (hands are always on the wheel, foot is always on the accelerator/brake/rudder pedal).

I don't see it that way. It'd guess you would need 5-6 mem points, one for each finger and the palm.

Something like array + index system like with have for weapon sounds + muzzle-slot attachments could possibly work, if BIS can face breaking everyone's addons again and enduring another round of the ensuing butthurt from players. E.g.

agreed