Multi/Sub-object Textures

[rooster3d 10]

I'm thinking this has got to be possible, considering how well detailed the interiors of some vehicles are. Because of modding for other games prior, I've learned to make separate texture sets for vehicles. Besides the outside/inside, I also modularize textures for tires or other parts that can be added/removed/interchanged (eg: turrets, cupolas, weapons, gerrycans, commo gear, tools). I just haven't found a straight-forward way to make it happen.

Thinking about the very limited experience I've had with O2, it seems I could make the interior an attached object to achieve the effect. Is that the best way?

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 ----------

So far the only way I've been able to do it is to select each object or individual face and apply the other texture. The process is a bit micro. Looking for a "select by material ID" kind of thing...

[[aps]gnat 28]

? Difficult to understand what you are asking ......

CTRL double click a texture name will select all faces with that texture, then use your mouse to un-select faces you don't want included.

Then either go to FACES and redefine the texture to yours, or Name theses selected faces so you can select them any time later

[rooster3d 10]

Hmmm... Textures aren't importing, so it seems I have to manually apply them. I figured out how to apply them selecting faces and/or elements, and I didn't need to "element" the interior... Is there another step I need to take after applying textures? I get a feeling it's not a permanent solution. I'll look for the faces naming thing; it sounds handy.

Also wondering how to apply specular levels, normal maps, and alpha. I assume I can use alpha channels in diffuse for opacity, and in the normal map for specular levels, but how can I apply both of these textures?

Could it have something to do with using Soul Assassin's ArmA Toolbox to export from Max? I haven't seen any dialog/rollout pertaining to exporting the materials/textures.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Rooster3D

[abs 2]

You can create named selection upon import. I'm going to show you how to do that real quick using this fabulous car that I plan on releasing eventually.

Step 1: Create the elements you need.

In this example, we have two elements: car body, and wheels.

http://i.imgur.com/WHjOAhf.png

Step 2: Select everything, and then export selected.

Be sure to save as 3ds.

http://i.imgur.com/CWfW0XS.png

Step 3: Import into o2.

Be sure to copy these settings exactly, especially the check boxes that say create selection.

http://i.imgur.com/SXfDLYh.png

Step 4: Select to your hearts content.

As you can see, the element names are now created as selections. Enjoy.

http://i.imgur.com/E1MJ0RE.png

Tip: It's always better to use fewer texture sheets. The higher the texture count on a model, the higher the section count, and the lower the performance.

To answer your second question about specular, etc...your answer is RVMATs. You need to use the Stages (1 thru 7) to identify specular, normal, etc... I'm still learning this myself, but that's your answer.

Hope it helped.

Abs

Edit: BTW, part of me suspects that you're asking about how to get a more detailed interior. The game utilizes a Level of Detail (LOD) system. That means that different models are loaded for different...views. If you're sitting in a vehicle it's a different model than if you were standing outside and looking in. I'd recommend starting from the basics: http://ofp.gamepark.cz/_hosted/brsseb/tutorials.htm and this will give you a strong foundation. It's meant for OFP, but the o2 sections still mostly apply.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Abs

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Also wondering how to apply specular levels, normal maps, and alpha. I assume I can use alpha channels in diffuse for opacity, and in the normal map for specular levels, but how can I apply both of these textures?

In addition to what Abs has said, there are some conventions for Texture map type names that you have to use in Arma. Basically you have to make sure to include the Map Type _suffix at the end of the filename when saving the textre as .tga so that you can convert it to .paa properly.

w/r/t opacity; the _CO texture map type only supports a basic black/white alpha channel meaning you only have 100% opacity or 0% opacity - this can result in a lot of aliasing at the edges of the alpha and you can't make semi-transparent objects with it. The _CA texture type supports full greyscale alpha channels. Often it's best to map all mesh componants that require an alpha channel to a separate _CA texture map while keeping objects that do not require the alpha channel, to a _CO texture map. This is why you'll often see things like tank tracks and windows, lenses and other glass objects in BIS's .pbos using a separate texture to the main structure.

w/r/t specular levels, the _SMDI specular map type uses a greyscale image in the green channel to map specular intensity (traditional specular map), but you can also use the blue channel of the _SMDI to provide a specular power map (traditionally called a gloss map). The greyscale values in the blue channel (0 to 1) are multiplied by the specularPower = XX; value in the .rvmat header in order to define the per-pixel order of magnitude of the specular power (gloss) map.

[meshcarver 12]

Tip: It's always better to use fewer texture sheets. The higher the texture count on a model, the higher the section count, and the lower the performance.

You could still use the MUILTIMAT couldn't you, so to have 4 textures but one Section..? That's what I thought with what Mondkalb says in his Multimat Tutorial, that's the point of MultiMats?

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Mondkalb%27s_MultiMaterial_Tutorial

It's basically how I'm doing all my structures/buildings for NOVA ZONA, using the MultiMat with 4 texture sheets each on average.

[abs 2]

You could still use the MUILTIMAT couldn't you, so to have 4 textures but one Section..? That's what I thought with what Mondkalb says in his Multimat Tutorial, that's the point of MultiMats?

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Mondkalb%27s_MultiMaterial_Tutorial

That comment was more in reference to his initial post where he was talking about having different CO textures for different parts of the vehicle.

Admittedly, I do have some trouble understanding his exact requirements, so I was taking a slight guess.

I have no doubt that the multimaterial will only count as one section.

Abs

[rooster3d 10]

Thanks, Abs. Watch out for hip-hop hamsters trying to take it for a joy ride!

Two things that bother me - a lot - about .3ds:

1. Sometimes it likes to omit geometry, but usually little ones you don't notice right away.

2. It auto-saves everything in the 8.3 format. Textures, objects... so annoying.

On the other hand, something I noticed about the ArmA Toolbox is that it doesn't preserve the smoothing groups quite right. At least .3ds seems to have that right. I'm gonna try a manual .obj export.

I'm not sure I can use fewer texture sets. I have many of my models set up to use parts of other models. For example, I have a buggy and a jeep that use the same radio, antenna mount, and antenna, and two tanks that also use that same antenna. The jeep also has a mounting bracket for the radios, a BFT computer and display (tracking computer), etc. All this commo gear is on a separate model set with its own texture, but not everything is used by all vehicles. The same holds true for vehicle tools, certain vehicle weapons, tires, etc. It just seems better to cram all the same type objects' textures into one 2048x2048 file instead of several 1024s and 512s. It loads fewer files, and makes better use of where gaps in the UVWs would otherwise be. . If I have several textures open on a certain vehicle, then it's okay because other vehicles will also be utilizing those same textures in a slightly different way. There may be a flaw in this method; I don't know. I'm just explaining my thought process.

I'll have to study up on RVMATs, too - right there with you on that.

I understand about making a more detailed interior POV; that was a technique used in the Battlefield 2 editor, as well. I'll check out that tutorials link anyway, because I'm not as familiar with some of the other LODs.

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

Thanks, also to meshCarver and da12thMonkey. I was writing/editing/experimenting while y'all sneaked in your posts!

That's good to know about the suffix thing. By my own practices or perhaps as a carry-over from using other game engines, I had been saving everything separately (ie: buggyBody_a, buggyBody_b.tga, buggyBody_c.tga, buggyBody_s.tga for alpha, bump, color, and specular, respectively).

I've just tried to export with .obj. After experimenting with settings, I got it in. I had to export with the flip YZ axis checked. Then I imported and negated the scale, and finally rotated it 180° on Y axis. I'm not sure if it's in the correct orientation after all that. The faces are facing the right way out, and it's all in the same starting orientation as it is when I export with ArmA Toolbox. Most importantly, all smoothing groups and faces are in tact, and the objects are not abbreviated.

This may be something to do with not setting up RVMATs, but once I have ctrl+dbl clicked on the material and then hit E, I can apply one texture to those faces. I click on create selection and then the material is renamed as the directory path of the texture.

[meshcarver 12]

That comment was more in reference to his initial post where he was talking about having different CO textures for different parts of the vehicle.

Admittedly, I do have some trouble understanding his exact requirements, so I was taking a slight guess.

I have no doubt that the multimaterial will only count as one section.

Abs

Aye mate, I wasn't being funny about it, I just thought to stick my oar in as it were! ;)

Btw, love your Star Trek mod..!

[abs 2]

Aye mate, I wasn't being funny about it, I just thought to stick my oar in as it were! ;)

Btw, love your Star Trek mod..!

No worries, man. I didn't take it the wrong way at all. :)

@Rooster3d: You'll also want to check out the Arma2 sample models. A quick google will help you out.

Abs

[rooster3d 10]

Thanks again all! The original question I had in this thread is more or less answered. It just comes down to understanding the O2 interface, and how to apply different textures and materials to specific groups of faces. However, there's a natural progression of challenges presenting themselves as I go.

I've been working through Mondkalb's tut... It's helpful; though it it seems to be pieced together from parts of other tutorials. There are some things going wrong with O2 as I work on it. The first time I loaded a texture in the viewport it worked. The blue one. As I made progress on the texture and then loaded up "TUT_wall_CO.tga" it did its conversion thing, but ti appeared in the viewport as the pink/white checkerboard pattern. Nevertheless, it worked fine in Buldozer, so I pushed forward. I reached nearly the end of the texturing section, and came to a dead stop on the rvmat. More precisely, the texture "TUT_wall_NOHQ.paa" would not load in Buldozer, thus creating a pitch black wall and door. I tried restarting O2, but that failed to fix the prob.

Some things weren't fully described in the tuts, so I had to figure it out on my own or wing it. These factors might come into play:

Using Photoshop CS6.

Saved .tga files no alpha with 32 bit.

Copied & pasted the rvmat sections into notepad, then just saved as .rvmat.

Indentation was all off, though I checked semicolons and no spaces after them.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Rooster3D

[rooster3d 10]

I don't know what it is with the TUT_wall_NOHQ.paa file, but it won't work. It's an anomaly, because I did all the steps again with a model I already have, and more texture sets, and my _NOHQ files work. The _CO.paa and _CA.paa files are still not showing up in the viewports, but still seem to be doing okay in Buldozer. The _SDMI files seem to be making very little difference. I have a jerrycan on my buggy that is supposed to be shinier than the buggy body, yet it looks dull. I set up my rvmats using the NOHQ+SDMI template, and just pointed to the proper textures. The normal maps are working, at least. WOOT! Last thing with textures is the _CA file. It could be a Buldozer setting, but for grayscale alpha in the _CA files I get a very low opacity - almost invisible, and there seems to be a lot of aliasing.

Back to the .3ds vs .obj issue: whenever I save a file in O2 that was imported from .obj, I reopen the file and find all the smoothing groups gone. This is because I have to flip everything on the Z axis in order for everything to look normal. I read somewhere that THIS is the action that makes the model lose its smoothing groups. I wonder if I should try to invert the contents of the .max file before I export it as .obj?

[abs 2]

Back to the .3ds vs .obj issue: whenever I save a file in O2 that was imported from .obj, I reopen the file and find all the smoothing groups gone. This is because I have to flip everything on the Z axis in order for everything to look normal. I read somewhere that THIS is the action that makes the model lose its smoothing groups. I wonder if I should try to invert the contents of the .max file before I export it as .obj?

I don't know what process you go through, but try pressing W to reverse faces.

Abs

[rooster3d 10]

I don't know what process you go through, but try pressing W to reverse faces.

Abs

Doing this, the left/right is still flipped and any smoothing information is trashed. I model with the following orientation:

Forward is +Y

Right is +X

Up is +Z

[abs 2]

Send me your file, and I'll see if I can duplicate your importing issues. If not, then I'll show you the steps that I take.

Abs

[rooster3d 10]

I've given it some exporting/importing experimentation. The best results seem to happen when I select .3ds; I just have to adapt my object naming conventions to the 8-character format. Good news is everything is oriented correctly and smoothing groups are retained.

@Abs: I'll be away from the mods this weekend, but if I get any further problems I'll send you this file to look at on Monday.