Initial Impressions and Suggestions

[MDBenson 10]

Hi,

First of all I'd like to say a huge congratulations to the team for a great project that has the potential to be a fantastic product. I think you have the realism/playability balance pretty well on the mark already and the game is graphically stunning and technically very interesting. This also has huge potential to use in space outreach as an educational tool to let people see what Mars rovers and landers they see in the news actually do on Mars.

I have logged over 18 hours so far and am up to Tech Level 8 and exploring around Kaiser Crater with a medium rover. I think by now I've touched most the game;s mechanics and features at least once (some many more times) and overall I'm impressed with it as an initial effort. I do have some ideas though that'd make it better. They may make it too easy or too hardcore, I don't know, but it'd be interesting to hear what people think:

The first probably echoes a lot of other people's thoughts on mission structure. Currently the mission system is a pre-packaged scripted mission with way-points and goals. Simple to use and straightforward, but it's a little formulaic. What I'd prefer is a more true-to-life approach whereby goals are results driven, i.e. "geology team looked at photo A and it reveals interesting features, you might want to look at this rock here >>>arrow" and the player has more say in what they do with the data once it's been collected, i.e. instead of just mission goals you get free roam of an area, with some guidance and overall goals given by the initial scientific proposal, but can roam about more and use your own initiative to set goals. However I know some people might not like to have to make these decisions or they might be too complex so you might want to, say, add an 'ask team for suggestions' option and have the computer decide. The only pitfall I can see is it;s going to need HUGE mounts of data putting into the maps in a realistic manner to facilitate more freedom. That in turn requires more information and research and I guess you guys are on limited resources so I'm unsure how feasible it is to implement fully. You could compromise and designate an area to roam in and make stuff outside that area non-contextual to the mission.

Second is I'd like to optionally be able to map out auto-pilot routes for the rovers. This is in effect how they are driven in reality. A route is planned, programmed and sent in advance and the rover does it's thing. I'd probably like to see this implemented on an overhead map system whereby the photo data provides a map of major obstacles (maybe this could be more accurate the better the cameras become, making the bigger rovers easier to autopilot) or better at a higher tech level or something. It'd make driving to a distant mission point a lot easier. You can be landing and starting another mission while it's doing it. :D It does involve the computer having to process a lot in the background, I understand this, and it'd have to assume small obstables as passable or something or the background processing oof a path around every little rock would be a nightmare I'd imagine. Still, something to think about :D

Third is an overhaul or at least some tweaks to the photo system. It's very unclear currently where from and what frame and distance you need to take a photo. Some tasks have descriptions of what camera type to use but that's as far as it goes. It's a little bit haphazard trying to get into right place with the right camera and getting everything in the right frame etc. What is really needed is some indication of the direction, area and framing. some of it might just be down to correcting line-of-sight issues (I had some of these the other day at Kaiser) and general tweaking but I think it needs something clearer.

Also something is the mission system. I'd say missions need to be 'droppable', i.e. I can 'un-assign' a mission from a Rover or Lander if it's not achievable. The status of the mission needs to be maintained but it'd be nice to hand, say, a task off from a lander to a rover to maximise the scientific gain from the mission by having the rover achieve some goals that can't be finished by the lander purely because if where it landed etc. It'd also mitigate frustration from the 'assign nearest' option accidentally assigning a mission 2.5 km away to the rover you are using. You'd be able to say 'hey, there's no way I'm driving over THERE' and un-assign it to assign it to something else.

Also on my list is the issues of wheel errors/sticking. It basically happens too often and too soon in a lot of cases. I've had numerous rovers land with an already malfunctioning wheel. This is not really realistic. Most rovers land and work okay for quite a while and only develop wheel faults as the sand and time and diurnal temperature shift takes it's toll on parts. This was the case with Spirit and Opportunity.

Those are just a few things I've thought about as my initial impressions sink in, I'll post more if I come across anything.

[wonki 10]

I completely agree with you, but I read that auto-pilot routes are being implemented, so we have to wait...

[EmissionGeneration 10]

Currently the mission system is a pre-packaged scripted mission with way-points and goals. Simple to use and straightforward, but it's a little formulaic.

Yup. A way I said in another thread that could open up Mission Objectives even more without Programming the entire Mars to interact with the Mission would be, have the Description tell you what you need to get out of the Mission, give you a Waypoint for the Area of Interest, and then everything within a certain Radius of that Waypoint can be Analyzed, or Photographed to go towards your Main Objective. Your Results will effect your outcome. This will open up the Game and make you feel that you are exploring and learning about Mars, rather than following scripted Missions.

Second is I'd like to optionally be able to map out auto-pilot routes for the rovers.

The DEVs have spoken about this and although it's not a priority, it will be implemented. However, they were talking about it that you set your Waypoints ect, then close down the Game and come back the next day to find out what the Rover has discovered [or if it destroyed itself]. I'm sure this could be used while you are playing it aswell though.

[MDBenson 10]

Yup. A way I said in another thread that could open up Mission Objectives even more without Programming the entire Mars to interact with the Mission would be, have the Description tell you what you need to get out of the Mission, give you a Waypoint for the Area of Interest, and then everything within a certain Radius of that Waypoint can be Analyzed, or Photographed to go towards your Main Objective. Your Results will effect your outcome. This will open up the Game and make you feel that you are exploring and learning about Mars, rather than following scripted Missions.

Yes I think it's a reasonable compromise. The areas could be centred around the 'Explore' tasks that typically start a mission.

I read that auto-pilot routes are being implemented, so we have to wait...

The DEVs have spoken about this and although it's not a priority, it will be implemented. However, they were talking about it that you set your Waypoints ect, then close down the Game and come back the next day to find out what the Rover has discovered [or if it destroyed itself]. I'm sure this could be used while you are playing it aswell though.

Good to hear it's on the agenda somewhere. Thinking through it it'd be nice if there was some limited AI that steered you around big killer rocks or stopped you dropping off big edges or something. Yes, it also need to work while you are in game so I can drop back to another rover and check it's doing okay from time to time.

[critanime 10]

The DEVs have spoken about this and although it's not a priority, it will be implemented. However, they were talking about it that you set your Waypoints ect, then close down the Game and come back the next day to find out what the Rover has discovered [or if it destroyed itself]. I'm sure this could be used while you are playing it aswell though.

I am pretty sure I remember reading that it takes 14.6 minuets to send a emergency stop command to Curiosity. Yet to send more complex commands it has to go through a series of nodes, one been Odyssey, to get to Curiosity. This requires a small window of time per day. This would be a more realistic approach and one that I owuld like to see impliment with the waypoint system.

[MDBenson 10]

I am pretty sure I remember reading that it takes 14.6 minuets to send a emergency stop command to Curiosity. Yet to send more complex commands it has to go through a series of nodes, one been Odyssey, to get to Curiosity. This requires a small window of time per day. This would be a more realistic approach and one that I owuld like to see impliment with the waypoint system.

While that would be more realistic I think it would break the realism/playability balance.

[critanime 10]

While that would be more realistic I think it would break the realism/playability balance.

When using the real time system? I was thinking it could be a more "hardcore" option for it. :)

[dram 14]

It would definitely be optional, and scalable. So you could set the OWLT delay to 0.1x or 0.5x or 1x for example, modulating the delay.

[MDBenson 10]

It would definitely be optional, and scalable. So you could set the OWLT delay to 0.1x or 0.5x or 1x for example, modulating the delay.

That'd work, yeah. I'd prefer it *wasn't* tied to the 'real time' option as it's something I think everyone should be able to play with or without, Good to hear it's in the works :)

Something else that occured to me:

When you play with Real Time (i.e. Mars time is tied to the real clock time) is it feasible to add a +/- 1-8 hour (for example) stagger, adjustable at any time, to the sim for people who happen to be in the wrong time zone? Or maybe a hybrid option that runs real time but 'optimised' to be in daylight at a certain time slot that you commonly play in. It'd make the Real Time mode more accessible to everyone I think as most people have relatively narrow play time windows that they can play in yet want the realism of having Martian time pass while they are out of the game. Just another random thought ;)

Edited August 16, 2013 by MDBenson

[dram 14]

That'd work, yeah. I'd prefer it *wasn't* tied to the 'real time' option as it's something I think everyone should be able to play with or without, Good to hear it's in the works :)

No, real time and game time will be part of an additional difficulty menu. There you will be able to choose one of 4 options:

- Arcade

- Balanced

- Simulation

- Custom

Where custom allows you to select individual options (such as part failure, time type and so on).

Something else that occured to me:

When you play with Real Time (i.e. Mars time is tied to the real clock time) is it feasible to add a +/- 1-8 hour (for example) stagger, adjustable at any time, to the sim for people who happen to be in the wrong time zone? Or maybe a hybrid option that runs real time but 'optimised' to be in daylight at a certain time slot that you commonly play in. It'd make the Real Time mode more accessible to everyone I think as most people have relatively narrow play time windows that they can play in yet want the realism of having Martian time pass while they are out of the game. Just another random thought ;)

To be honest I think it would defeat the purpose of it. Real time takes the current UTC (so it doesn't matter if a person plays at the same time from Sydney or Prague, UTC is a specific time zone) and works out the Mars time from it. Remember that a Martian day is actually 40 minutes longer then the Earth day, so within a week it is completely out of sync anyway, hence if daily you played at 7:00am and it was night time now, then in a week it would be day time at the same 7:00am here. If that makes sense :)

[MDBenson 10]

To be honest I think it would defeat the purpose of it. Real time takes the current UTC (so it doesn't matter if a person plays at the same time from Sydney or Prague, UTC is a specific time zone) and works out the Mars time from it. Remember that a Martian day is actually 40 minutes longer then the Earth day, so within a week it is completely out of sync anyway, hence if daily you played at 7:00am and it was night time now, then in a week it would be day time at the same 7:00am here. If that makes sense :)

In some ways yes but in some ways not so much. If, for example, you lived in a timezone where Mars was in the dead of night during your playing hours it'd take months, maybe even half a year to get around so that there was daylight at that time. That seems like it'd unfairly eliminate people in that timezone from using real-time mode for long lengths of time, and, if successful, will inhibit everyone around the world from playing it in real-time at some stage or other if they play it for long enough. Some kind of middle ground that runs in real-time but slews the clock by a variable amount so you are in the light zone on Mars at that time would make passing back-ground real-time-like time a better prospect as you are less likely to have to get up in the middle of the night in some places ;) The only stipulation I'd insist on if you were to do it would be you can ONLY slew time forwards. That would make it like a time skip feature but it'd store that time difference and always apply it to when you logged in to that saved game.

EDIT:

2 More ideas aoccured to me:

• A mission elapsed time for each rover/lander
  
• The ability to fit a stereoscopic-capable camera and take stereoscopic 3D images ala Spirit/Opportunity and Curiosity would be seriously neat :D
  

I dunno. If you don't think it's worth it that's okay, the two game-modes work okay as-is and with autopilot possibly with a trigger time to start and stop activities I guess that makes it somewhat usable for people who are stuck on the dark side. They just won't be able to arcade it up and drive the rovers and landers 'live' which I know some people will want to do.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Deadfast
Merged the two posts for you

[dram 14]

Well don't forget the locations are spread around the planet, so on one side it is night, but the other is in day, so for example when its night time on victoria crater, its day on gale crater :)

Edited August 16, 2013 by Dram

[MDBenson 10]

True enough, but that means if you are unlucky to start with that's a week or two you can't play the game for as the low-tech craft are not that great in the dark :)