Hiroshima: 57 years

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Aug. 07 2002,21:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 07 2002,16:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 07 2002,09:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A soldier who is happy to live at the expense of murdering civilians is only worth my utter contempt.<span id='postcolor'>

Any soldier who is happy is only worth my utter contempt. (I'm not talking about draftees)<span id='postcolor'>

On behalf of anyone who has ever volunteered to defend those weaker than himself, you're welcome.

Of course, for me, "the spinal cord would suffice," so what do I know?

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

You have a distorted idea of what a soldier is. You can defend people who are weaker without being a soldier.

EDIT: Going into politics and diplomacy can allow you to save thousands, being a soldier may allow you to kill thousands.

[RedRogue 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 09 2002,09:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Aug. 07 2002,21:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 07 2002,16:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 07 2002,09:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A soldier who is happy to live at the expense of murdering civilians is only worth my utter contempt.<span id='postcolor'>

Any soldier who is happy is only worth my utter contempt.  (I'm not talking about draftees)<span id='postcolor'>

On behalf of anyone who has ever volunteered to defend those weaker than himself, you're welcome.

Of course, for me, "the spinal cord would suffice," so what do I know?

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

You have a distorted idea of what a soldier is.  You can defend people who are weaker without being a soldier.

EDIT: Going into politics and diplomacy can allow you to save thousands, being a soldier may allow you to kill thousands.<span id='postcolor'>

Going into politics and diplomacy can allow you to kill thousands as well. And then your not usually doing the dirty work.

[bn880 5]

I'm sorry, but you should think about that one. You will realize I am right.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaegis @ Aug. 09 2002,11:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FYI, Ralph, here's a map of Soviet operations against Japan in 1945. The offensive began on August 9th and came to conclusion on Sptember 2nd when Japan surrendered. As you can see (I couldn't find a map with English markings, but it should be easy enough to read) the Soviet operation was certainly not constrained to the Kurile islands and would have effectively cut off any remaining sources of raw materials for Japan. The Japanese forces involved numbered approximately 710.000 men.

<span id='postcolor'>

thanx for info

although the map shows how Red Army advanced, it doesn't seem to show dates.

AFAIK, Kurile islands were not under attack until 2 days after the A-bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. and I doubt if the Red Army made advance in to Manchuria before that. One thing I learned from my history class is that no Soviet army entered N.Korean territory before Aug. 15th. So Red Army was slow i guess.

Kingbeast.

LOL..don't worry..in US they don't teach you mush about WW2 anyways.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 09 2002,16:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

You have a distorted idea of what a soldier is.  You can defend people who are weaker without being a soldier.

EDIT: Going into politics and diplomacy can allow you to save thousands, being a soldier may allow you to kill thousands.<span id='postcolor'>

First: Please don't presume to tell me what it means to be a soldier. Thanks.

Second: It seems that your own ideas about soldiers may be slightly distorted. Do you really think we join for the opportunity to "kill thousands?" It's true that in an ideal world there would be no need for military force, but look around -- this is not that world.

Semper Fi

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Aug. 10 2002,18:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 09 2002,16:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

You have a distorted idea of what a soldier is. You can defend people who are weaker without being a soldier.

EDIT: Going into politics and diplomacy can allow you to save thousands, being a soldier may allow you to kill thousands.<span id='postcolor'>

First: Please don't presume to tell me what it means to be a soldier. Thanks.

Second: It seems that your own ideas about soldiers may be slightly distorted. Do you really think we join for the opportunity to "kill thousands?" It's true that in an ideal world there would be no need for military force, but look around -- this is not that world.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

I am not presuming, you explained what you think it is.

Don't BS me, I know exactly what soldiers are for, go listen to some more orders and stop making prehistoric arguments to me.

Civilization needs soldiers like we need war!

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Aug. 11 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 09 2002,16:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

You have a distorted idea of what a soldier is.  You can defend people who are weaker without being a soldier.

EDIT: Going into politics and diplomacy can allow you to save thousands, being a soldier may allow you to kill thousands.<span id='postcolor'>

First: Please don't presume to tell me what it means to be a soldier. Thanks.

Second: It seems that your own ideas about soldiers may be slightly distorted. Do you really think we join for the opportunity to "kill thousands?" It's true that in an ideal world there would be no need for military force, but look around -- this is not that world.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

I'm going with E6Hotel on this one...

I know some currently serving members of the Canadian Forces, and I know a few veterans as well.  And none of them signed up because they thought they might get to kill people.  I figure that most soldiers have a pretty good idea that if they are shooting at someone, someone is shooting at them.  And no one in their right mind WANTS to be shot at.  The people I know who have become soldiers because they wanted to serve their country, and do something challenging.

While I am sure there are some psychopahic/sociopathic sorts that become soldiers because they may get to kill, I think that is a very very small minority.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Aug. 11 2002,01:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While I am sure there are some psychopahic/sociopathic sorts that become soldiers because they may get to kill, I think that is a very very small minority.<span id='postcolor'>

What army lets them in un-vetted?!

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 11 2002,01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Aug. 11 2002,011)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While I am sure there are some psychopahic/sociopathic sorts that become soldiers because they may get to kill, I think that is a very very small minority.<span id='postcolor'>

What army lets them in un-vetted?!<span id='postcolor'>

No matter how stringent your testing and/or screening, some nutters will always slip through. In any field.

[bn880 5]

Well, I did not say people want to be soldiers to kill lots of people,

what I said is:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You have a distorted idea of what a soldier is. You can defend people who are weaker without being a soldier.

EDIT: Going into politics and diplomacy can allow you to save thousands, being a soldier may allow you to kill thousands.<span id='postcolor'>

Just like I don't drive a car to destroy the environment, and pilots don't fly at air shows to make mistakes and kill people.

Do I really have to spell out the logic behind this? Is there nothing that doesn't have to be fully explained and pushed for some poeple to understand?

If you make being a soldier a "career", you HAVE THROWN YOUR LIFE AWAY. I don't care what arguments are made for this, but no one is given a brain just to become a warrior ant.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Aug. 11 2002,01:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 11 2002,01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Aug. 11 2002,01<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While I am sure there are some psychopahic/sociopathic sorts that become soldiers because they may get to kill, I think that is a very very small minority.<span id='postcolor'>

What army lets them in un-vetted?!<span id='postcolor'>

No matter how stringent your testing and/or screening, some nutters will always slip through.   In any field.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think real psycos would get far in the armed forces, not before their lunacy is noticed anyway.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 10 2002,19:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think real psycos would get far in the armed forces, not before their lunacy is noticed anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

Wanna bet? In the soviet union most specops soldiers are complete pieces of shit, they have no respect for human life.

And in the states most soldiers have been brain washed and will not accept any information in their brain that stands against their patriotism.

Only intelligent sodiers I have met have been some that used to represent Canada at Nato. And they were actually dealing with politics and diplomacy at that point, after working on battlefied simulators for a while.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 11 2002,01:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wanna bet? In the soviet union most specops soldiers are complete pieces of shit, they have no respect for human life.

And in the states most soldiers have been brain washed and will not accept any information in their brain that stands against their patriotism.<span id='postcolor'>

I was thinking about good Armed Forces really...j/k j/k!

[bn880 5]

I suppose... sorry I just become very agitated when people justify spending their life preparing to kill and obeying orders.

I don't hate any of these people, but I can't believe they don't wake up one day and realize their time here is limited.

[STS_SolidSnake 0]

May all the Americans and Japanese people who died during Pearl Harbor Rest In Peace

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Aug. 11 2002,00:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am not presuming, you explained what you think it is.

Don't BS me, I know exactly what soldiers are for, go listen to some more orders and stop making prehistoric arguments to me.

Civilization needs soldiers like we need war!<span id='postcolor'>

You call this "civilization?"

The fact remains that you may choose not to defend yourself because others have either freely assumed, or been forced to assume, that obligation. Whether you value that gift or not is also your option. Be grateful you have it. And as far as "throwing their lives away," all I can ask is by whose standards? I'd say the same about people who "aspire" to politics. <edit> After all, which people usually start the wars that the brain-dead, drooling soldiers end up fighting? <edit>

You really should ease up on the blanket statements. Generalizations always suck.*

*Yes, that was intentional.  

Semper Fi

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 11 2002,01:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think real psycos would get far in the armed forces, not before their lunacy is noticed anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

Three letters: OCS.

Semper Fi

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Hmmmmmm Hiroshima topic........ .......Turned into thread about the role of a soldier......... Why not make this easier and open a thread about your ideas about what the role of a soldier is?

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 11 2002,06:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmmmmm Hiroshima topic........ .......Turned into thread about the role of a soldier......... Why not make this easier and open a thread about your ideas about what the role of a soldier is?<span id='postcolor'>

easier said than done, w/ so many opinions, it would be impossible to define what a soldier is. that is make a defininition to what everyone would agree to.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 11 2002,06:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmmmmm Hiroshima topic........ .......Turned into thread about the role of a soldier......... Why not make this easier and open a thread about your ideas about what the role of a soldier is?<span id='postcolor'>

Merely responding to provocation. Similar to, umm, I don't know...

maybe...

Pearl Harbor?

How's that for getting back to the original topic?

Semper Fi

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Aug. 11 2002,07:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 11 2002,06:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmmmmm Hiroshima topic........ .......Turned into thread about the role of a soldier......... Why not make this easier and open a thread about your ideas about what the role of a soldier is?<span id='postcolor'>

Merely responding to provocation. Similar to, umm, I don't know...

maybe...

Pearl Harbor?

How's that for getting back to the original topic?

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

Oooooh...that's opening a whole can of worms

Isnt it strange that all the carriers were away form Pearl on December 7th?

The Japanese executed a brilliant piece of strategy and caught the US napping, for the most part. And if you would attempt to compare Pearl Harbour to the use of the A Bomb on Japan...it's a pretty huge leap. The attack on Pearl was a military strike on a military base. Yes, it was a sneak atack, but come on...do you think the US is honestly going to warn Iraq of the date they will launch the next round of hostilities? You dont win a war by telling your enemy what you plan on doing The use of atomic weapons was targeted at civilians. And more than that it was a show of force aimed squarly at the Soviets. So there is a HUGE difference in there.

[MDRZulu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but come on...do you think the US is honestly going to warn Iraq of the date they will launch the next round of hostilities<span id='postcolor'>

Of course not that is what CNN is for.

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Aug. 11 2002,01:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know some currently serving members of the Canadian Forces, and I know a few veterans as well.  And none of them signed up because they thought they might get to kill people.  I figure that most soldiers have a pretty good idea that if they are shooting at someone, someone is shooting at them.  And no one in their right mind WANTS to be shot at.  The people I know who have become soldiers because they wanted to serve their country, and do something challenging.<span id='postcolor'>

Don't you think it's really because they didn't know what else to do?

If you can't do anything else, you can always be a soldier...?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I guess so too. Especially since the army is a good harbour for those with a low grade of education.

However the army also represents adventure, masculinity, a safe employement, kid's games with arms and guns, eduational sponsorship, self-pride! Not that I have to agree with those but I guess that an authentic reflection of the army, no?

[Guest]

Please keep it on topic. The discussion on soldiers is very interesting and it deserves a thread of its own.